stuman
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Posts posted by stuman
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I can't say, haven't done it.
I would assume that like other forms of two wheeled fun, some stuff translates, some doesn't.
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Or you could do a search before posting a topic, if you have something new to add then post an an existing thread and it will be revived. This is common Internet etiquette and a common courtesy that is expected on most forums.
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The only thing in there that we don't already teach at the school is putting your feet past the end of the footpeg. I disagree with this as a technique because it will make your chances of dragging your toes on the pavement much greater. His reasoning is that you get more leverage on the pegs when your put your feet way out on the edge and I think this benefit is negligible. You can jump around on the pegs pretty hard and it doesn't affect a sportbike at speed very much, I don't think moving your feet a few inches further out is going to make much difference.
As for the never stay in the middle of the seat thing, we have used this as a coaching tool for as long as I have been coaching. We also have a drill we use in level 4 often called Body Position Early, we use this to get a rider to shift his weight to the side well before he starts braking.
I think that once you get the hang of setting up early for a corner, there is no need to hang off all the way down a long straight.
In any case, I didn't see anything in the video (other then the feet thing) that we haven't been talking about for years at our school.
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I would have to agree with Bullet, you have some work to do on your visuals.
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I'm surprised you didn't feel the rear move at all if the slide was enough that your friend saw it. Seems like you should have felt something. Anyway, yeah the faster you go through a corner eventually someting has got to give. If you go through this corner all the time and push a little harder each time it will slide at some point.
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There have been a few threads on fitness you might try a search...
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The track was OK. Pretty smooth and some fun corners where you could stay leaned over for a while. No change in elevation. Not the worst track I've been on, but not one of my favorites.
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Well, as Cobie mentioned on the "what we are up to" thread, a few of us here at the US school got to spend a day on the track with our new steed, the BMW S1000RR. I thought some might be interested in a little write up on the day so here goes.
A while back Cobie asked me if I could go to Florida and help out with the BMW dealer launch for the S1000RR and I told him I would have think about it. So after thinking for about 10 to 15 seconds I said I would go. I mean, who would pass up the chance to ride a new bike around a nice race track in the tropical sunshine for a day?
I have to start out by saying this was not your normal Superbike School road trip. I show up in FL and Keith picks me up at the airport and drives a few others and myself to the hotel. Turns out the hotel was the 4 Seasons so we were off to a real good start. After a kick butt dinner hosted by BMW it was off to bed early as we had to be at the track at the break of dawn.
Christmas day, well it least it felt like it. We show up at the track and the techs from BMW have all the bikes lined up and ready to go they give us a run down on the features of the bike and how to operate the ABS and Traction Control (more on this later). I have to say the bikes look really nice, I love the Red/White and Blue paint scheme, but the black/ti and the green look pretty rad as well.
Next it is time to open our presents, new leathers from AGV Sport, new gloves and boots from Alpine Stars. My new leathers are sooooooooo nice, super soft, they fit perfect and don't make my butt look fat. AGV has done some upgrades to the new leathers and they are super sweet. They put this cool suede like material in the cuffs and around your neck and it is very soft and comfortable. Our new sponsor Alpine Stars hooked us up with new SuperTech boots and they totally rock. These boots are very comfortable and offer great protection as well. The Alpine star gloves are pretty rad looking and offer great protection to boot.
So we all suite up and get ready to jump on the S1000RR. We will be leading the dealers around Moroso for the day and we have a lot of riding ahead of us. The first thing you notice when you sit on the bike is how small and light it feels, if you were blind folded you would think it was a 600cc. That is until you get rolling and notice that BMW made the bike small but laid out the controls and foot rests for normal sized people. I'm typically pretty cramped on a 600 at 6'1" but I was very comfortable on the S1000RR. Once rolling the bike feels outstanding, it flicks into corners easily but remains totally stable.
So here's the kicker, I know that some riders have voiced concerns about riding a 1000cc bike at the school. With the electronics this bike offers I would not be concerned AT ALL. If you are bit intimidated at the thought of riding a 1000, just put it in rain mode and the bike is a pussy cat.
The traction control/abs/engine mapping on the bike is really cool. Basically there are four different riding modes and each affects the ABS, Traction control and Throttle Response. Each mode has a very distinct effect on the way the bike behaves overall. Also because the traction control senses the lean angle, it can control how much power it will allow at different lean angles in each mode.
In Rain Mode, the throttle response is really soft. The hp is also limited to 150hp at full throttle and the ABS is very sensitive. It was actually really fun riding around the track in rain mode as it almost made the bike fool proof. You probably could pin the thing at the apex without fear of sending yourself to the moon.
In Sport mode the throttle response is a little snappier and the ABS not noticeable at all. The traction control still limits the power at different lean angles, but hp is not limited when you open the throttle all the way and the bike is more upright. In sport mode the only time you notice the ABS is if you try to back it in as the rear abs won't allow the use of the rear brake to help get the rear tire to slide. Also the traction control will not allow the bike to wheelie much at all, it keeps the front end pretty much planted.
In Track mode the throttle response gets even more aggressive and the traction control allows the wheel to slide/spin just a little before it limits the power. Still no wheelie or backing it in.
In Slick Mode (which can only be accessed by adding a jumper to the ecu) the throttle response is very aggressive (maybe a little too much from off throttle) and the traction control less aggressive. I had a nice little slide while riding in Slick mode and the traction control kicked in before it went too far. Also you can wheelie for 5 seconds in slick mode and the rear ABS is disabled so you can back it in. And speaking of backing it in this bike has the best slipper clutch I've ever used. It is very smooth and has very little friction.
You can switch between these modes very easily while riding using a button on the bar. Just press the button to access the next mode and then roll off the throttle and grab the clutch once to confirm your choice.
You can independently disable ABS or Traction control using another button on the other bar. So you can ride with traction control and without abs or vice versa. Or ride with no electronics at all. I never bothered to turn off everything and see how the bike rode, I liked having the traction control and ABS. If you're a stunter you can turn off TC and wheelie all you like.
Electronics aside, this bike has BIG POWER, like waaaaaayyyy more power than any other stock 1000cc bike I have ridden or raced. I've raced 1000s for the past 5 years or so and this bike felt like it had WAY MORE POWER than any of my race bikes. The thing is it delivers this power really well, lots of low end and a big top end rush. I believe one of the guys reported hitting 180mph on the back straight and the bike seems like it would go faster than that on a longer straight. Let's just say I think the kink in the front straight at VIR is going to be a little more interesting this year.
So besides having big power, cool electronics and great ergos the bike pretty much does everything else really well. Brembo brakes provide HUGE stopping power with great feel. The stock suspension felt pretty darn good as well. Maybe a little soft for my fat butt, but add a little preload and a few clicks of damping and I'll be happy. The bike turns super well, you can flick it in easily and once leaned over it is VERY stable which is highly unusual for a bike of this nature. Most 1000s I have been on weren't what you would call stable, this one is yet it still turns in well. The slipper clutch works so well I think it might make blipping the throttle on downshifts unnecessary, well at least for me anyway (shhh don't tell Cobie I said that).
Anyway, I could go on and on about this bike but hopefully many of you will get the chance to ride it for yourself this year at one of our schools. If you have any questions about the bike I'd be happy to answer them as best I can here on this thread.
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Sorry for coming back to this one, but could you elaborate a little on Keith's comments to this, as I'm rather puzzled by that comment?
I find that keeping my eyes level with the horizon (or close to that) makes wonders for NOT triggering SRs, and I find that (street) riders that I talk to / work with on cornering all come back with an agreement to this statement after trying it out (on the road or track).
Basically the gist of the conversation was that when riders try to level their head it makes it harder for them to go with the bike and lean into the corner. Also when you are way leaned over you would really have to tilt your head quite a bit and this can be a very uncomfortable position. For this reason, if we come across a rider that is having a hard time with their body position and not going with the bike we might suggest that they NOT try to level their horizon and just lean their head into the corner. It works pretty well and I have never had a student complain that not leveling their horizon caused any issues.
I'm curious, what SRs would be alleviated by leveling your horizon?
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Sometimes I feel the slides before they happen, most times I don't. It's just traction, traction, traction, WHOA! what was that?
This can be related to a setup issue with the bike as well. Adding more trail can help give you more "feel". If the front is super low or the back way jacked up, you loose feel.
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Sorry to hear about your get off, but it doesn't sound like there was much you could have done. Cold tires, cold road = very little traction and you have to be super careful.
I'm glad you weren't injured! Bikes can be fixed...
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I really use the Vanishing Point (we now call it the three step) when riding on the street. I would have to say that was biggest thing for me.
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I do not feel I have placed a blank statement anywhere in my arguments
You weren't the one I quoted in my responce
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You should check out the forum for the Spencer School Eirik, oh wait that went out of business...
Sorry couldn't resist.
And by the way, your completely missing my point. I'm not saying that no one levels their head, I'm just countering the blanket statement that everyone should. I'm glad this works for you and you feel it is important, but we have found at the school that it can cause more problems then it resolves and I just want to make that clear, this is the schools forum after all and I would like to make sure that people viewing this thread do not take your opinion as that of our organization.
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Ok one last thing, you would think that if "The sudden change in elevation and tilt will not be conducive remaining calm" this would be really important for motocross riders huh?
Well, maybe not...
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And just to further illustrate my point....
The two black lines represent the riders eyes and the bike, they are pretty much parallel. The red line represents the horizon. So yeah, I'd say Rossi's head is more in line with the bike then the horizon.
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But no one keeps their head level with the bike
Ok so would you say his head is more in line with the bike or the ground ?
I think you might break your neck trying to keep your head level at this kinda lean angle.
and last but not least, compare Rossi's head (in line with bike) to Stoner's (more level).
Just a few examples from a quick image search on google. I'm sure I could come up with a bunch more.
I had a quick conversation with Keith on this topic yesterday and I'm paraphrasing here, but his response was that leveling your head causes more problems then it resolves, it puts your neck at a strange angle and makes it harder to go with the bike.
So I think if you want to level your head and it is not causing a problem for you, fine keep it up. But I wouldn't advise that someone that doesn't level their head should do so.
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And then what to do you do, roll on the gas? Stand the bike up? Hold your breath and repent for your sins?
It may seem strange but, in most cases turn the bars in. Turn the bars so that the front wheel points to the right in a right corner.
That is the short answer because I'm tired from riding the BMW S1000RR on the track all day and I want to enjoy my room at the 4 seasons
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We should try to stay away from blanket statements like that Jason, sure most riders naturally level their head some, but not all. Our mechanic Will is a very successfull racer, multiple class championships and lap records, he does not level his head at all. Look at a bunch of photos of Rossi on-line. In many his head will be leveled, in many it is not.
All I'm saying is that I just don't feel like this is something that is important, or something that you must do to ride well. We have been coaching riders at the school for a very long time, and this is not part of our curriculum, if it was something that we thought would benefit riders we would coach it. Like I said the only time we use it as a tool is when we ask riders to NOT level their head in an effort to get them to go with the bike.
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If you get blisters on your hands form riding, your holding on way to tight.
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Good stuff everyone, keep it comming.
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Good point about the quick turn
In shorter corners that is often the limiting factor, In longer corners you have a little more time to search for the limit of tractions. I like Hotfoot's description as well, the pavement does seems smooth...
What I notice first when the front pushes is that the bars feel light. What I mean is when you have lots of front feel an the front has lots of traction the bars feel heavy, there is some resistance to your slightest pressure. When the front pushes there is not more resistant and if feels like the front wheel is kinda floating. When the bars just start to feel a little light it is a god warning. Of course you have to be light of the bars to feel that. If you have a death grip it will be harder to feel.
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Doesn't really make much difference.
The only time we coach someone on this is if they are "crossed up" on the bike, we may ask them to try NOT leveling their horizon.
Some of the fastest riders I know don't level their horizon, I do somewhat.. Six of one........
This guy seems to do OK without leveling...
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Although the tire's contact patch may actually increase in size when you lean a bike over from vertical to horizontal traction is still reduced. This is because the suspension on a motorcycle does not work nearly as well when leaned over as it does when the bike is straight up and down (hence the need to design flex into the frame).
When I refer to pushing the bike under you having an advantage at lower speeds, I mean speeds below what you would normally travel on the street, even in a hairpin. Supermotos race around go-kart tracks and the corners are way to tight for the average car. In the corners where speeds are up above 30mph we hang off roadrace style.
I'm not a physics professor and quite frankly discussions of physics don't interest me all that much. But I do believe that even though the centrifugal ( or centrifical, what ever is aplicable) force may be the same, the angle at which the force acts is different.
As for changing your style, there are many advantages to riding with "proper form" and many disadvantages to pushing the bike under you. Offten learning something new doesn't feel natural and it may take some practice and many times what feels natural can be very wrong.
The Best Thing You Learned At The School
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
I'm surprised no one mentioned the Relax drill, I've heard a lot of riders get a lot out of that one.