Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral

About harnois

  • Rank
    Cornering Master

Previous Fields

  • Have you attended a California Superbike School school?
    Yes Level 1 in 2001 or so

Contact Methods

  • Website URL
  • ICQ

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
  • Interests
    radio control car racing, motorcycle touring, commuting, track riding, and some dirt and adventure riding, mountain biking, hiking, traveling.
  1. Yep! If the bike is working properly, new tires, good geometry and all that, and you aren't doing anything to mess it up, the front will naturally steer into the turn exactly the amount it needs to in order to maintain its present lean angle. Thank you modern motorcycles with this "neutral" steering! And so when you countersteer you are pushing the bars to left or right of that neutral steering position, not necessarily to the left or right of center.
  2. Nice drawing. I do understand the concept. Your drawing is similar to the one posted here that I mentioned earlier. http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=312 I don't dispute that the difference exist, I was just saying it's not enough difference to be worth mentioning. In your drawing, it appears to me that you dramatically exaggerated the difference in tire width and CoG location, which is fine because it makes the concept more clear. But in reality, the difference in CoG and tire width between a sportbike and an adventure bike is not that great. I own one of each. Y
  3. Just because A happens at the same time as B, doesn't mean that A caused B. The superbike school would no doubt help your brother fix his front wheel sliding issue. I have never had front wheel sliding issues except when off-throttle or on the brakes. I'll tell ya story bout my own brother... I was riding in front on a 2-lane backroad, mov'n at a pretty fun pace, as I crested a hill I see an unexpected left curve with a big swath of gravel all over it. So I brake before the turn, lean in quickly, get on the throttle early and kept it on throughout the turn - basically the same way I
  4. The Wikipedia article seems not to agree with this: (my bold) Good point. But the often perpetuated myth is that THE reason countersteering works is because of the gyro effect. Case in point, stevo brought it up without even mentioning the out-tracking. It seems that new riders find that answer first and stop looking. While the gyro effect *might* be a minor convenient benefit, it is not THE reason that countersteering works. If the gyro effect did not exist, countersteering would still work just fine. Besides that, while I'm glad to see the wiki article mention actual tes
  5. I also certainly occasionally enjoy the feeling of braking hard into a downhill reducing radius turn, so it's not like I think it's so dangerous that I never do it. Just because we are good enough riders to get away with it does not mean there is no added risk. It is definitely riskier. Aside from the higher likelihood of a traction issues, the technique is pointless unless you are charging into the turn at a fairly high speed, and at that higher entry speed, and already braking, there is less allowance for the unexpected.
  6. Eirik, I think your point about having the brakes preloaded is an interesting one. Although I still think it's obvious that whatever benefit you get from that is offset multiple times over by many other added risks. The general feel I get from your posts at this point is that you agree that the textbook superbike school method (slow in and smooth throttle through the turn) is actually optimal, but you prefer to do it in a less optimal way because you think it is more fun. I can't really relate to that, but to each their own. If you idea of fun is looking for the least optimal way to
  7. If tyres had zero width, wheel diameter, CoG and wheelbase wouldn't matter. However, since tyres have width, all these things affect how much a bike must lean for a given speed. Wider tyres require more lean than narrower ones. Large diameter wheels require less lean than smaller ones. Long wheelbases require more lean than short wheelbases. And tall bikes (higher CoG) require less lean than lower bikes. There's a thread here discussing this topic, with a nice graphic showing how the tire width affects things: http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=312 The differences
  8. Here we go again!.... You do realize this stuff has been hacked at over and over again on a million internet forums already, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering Putting pressure on the handlebars causes them to turn, it's just such a small amount that it is hard to notice. But it is the turning that makes it work. The gyro thing is basically a myth. See the article linked above. Actual testing demonstrated that the gyro effect was only 12% of the cause at 50mph. The primary reason it works is because it drives the tires out from under the bike.
  9. OK, maybe, but you are also going faster to start with, because if you are trail braking, this certainly must mean you have a faster turn entry speed, otherwise what's the point of continuing to brake into the turn? The guy who slows before the turn, then accelerates gradually through most of the turn, he is going slower at the turn entry, has more time to assess the turn, requires less braking to slow for anything unexpected. The trail-braker on the other hand, at the turn entry, is not only going faster but has a less stable bike due to the braking.
  10. Here's the reason why trail braking is dangerous on the street. As I'm sure you know based on your posts and 30 years of riding, if you hit a slippery spot while cornering on the brakes, the front end will step out FAST! You can end up on the pavement before you even knew you were sliding. Now I see in this thread you've addressed that, and say you deal with those issues fine, but what if you don't SEE the slippery spot? I have multiple times had my tires slide out and had no idea what was there to cause it. In some cases I've actually gone back to look at the road to see what it was. Gr
  11. For a lot of turns it's a steady speed simply because they are not sharp enough to make me have to slow down for them. I mean, with a speed limit of 55mph, a turn has to be pretty dang sharp to make me have to slow down for it, especially after all the track riding experience. But for the turns where I need to slow down, it's engine braking and/or light braking up to the turn, release the brakes, lean it down, throttle on as soon as possible and slight throttle roll-on throughout the turn. It's the safest way to ride, and it's still fun. A lot of the back roads I ride on are bumpy and s
  12. Eirik, I started riding motorcycles in 1998. By the time I took superbike school in the early 2000's, I had about 80,000 miles of street riding experience. Yeah, I guess I got the bug. I was totally comfortable with riding before I took the school. I didn't really feel like I was missing anything. But the school totally changed my way of riding. In the following 2 or 3 months I remember feeling quite awkward while trying to ride by their suggestions. I felt slow and inaccurate. I was having to think really hard about what I was doing while riding, when before it seemed so natural.
  13. See this, look at the section called "Leaning." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_dynamics#Turning Note in the formula there, the variables are speed, radius, and gravity. The higher CoG of the adventure bike would not cause it to lean less. Now what might be fun to think about, is how would your lean angle or cornering ability be affected if you were riding on other planets with different levels of gravity?
  14. My local tack is Virginia International Raceway. North Course turn 7 is a right-hander with a harsh dip in the middle followed by an off-camber rise in the 2nd half. I have friends who have high-sided there. I've watched one of my friends almost high-side there twice while I was following him. Only a couple of times, in all the 50 or 60 track days I've done there, I had this cool sensation of both front and rear tires drifting equally as I went over that rise. Then I probably got chicken and slowed down and haven't felt it since! I think your idea of keeping the throttle constant as
  15. So you are saying that, now that you are aware of this tip, you can compete with Rossi? The other side of this tip though, is that once you actually go for the pass, you will be at the limit again AND off the ideal line.
  • Create New...