Jaybird180
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Posts posted by Jaybird180
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Cobie,
What do you mean by easier on the rider? Can you explain the benefits in learning this?
The short version is: the control actions are the same--excpet there is one less to do! Simultaneous braking and downshifting is the single most complicated action in riding a motorcycle. It can come at a very busy time for a rider, while entering a turn, has to set his speed, location, deal with traffic, hit his turn in point, get ready to look into the turn--this gets busy. So, eliminating a whole action, simpler for the rider, don't you think?
Best,
CF
The theory sounds good. The idea of not having to use the clutch to downshift...I suppose it could be a timesaver. Since you've been doing it, does it free up some of your mental money? Clutchless upshifting has worked well for me with my GP shift configuration. I seem to only be able to clutchless down while coming to a full stop at a light, low rpm. And then it doesn't seem right for my F4i's tranny .
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Cobie,
What do you mean by easier on the rider? Can you explain the benefits in learning this?
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Seems there's a problem with write permissions on the forum's software. You may want to have the IT guys contact the vendor about it.
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3 words for ya: Laser-Eye-Surgery. I know several people who got it and they are immensely satisfied.
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I've noticed that he does it when he needs to go in deep. I saw him do it and overshoot his turn-in. Maybe it's a Rossi SR (LOL) and others (Pedrosa) are now emulating The Doctor .
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Josh took 9th at Magny Cours two weeks ago.
Atta boy. His wife is a doll, used to come and c/work for us at Streets. Pretty sure she gets some racing in now and again too.
I heard that she races 250's and called Josh in Europe to give him the news that she brought home a "W".
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Josh took 9th at Magny Cours two weeks ago.
Not sure I've seen that one on SpeedTV yet...I think I have.
Hey, how about you throw up a SPOILER warning? eh? Sometimes I don't get around to watching a race for awhile. It's all good
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I get it now....he's free wheeling!!!
This sport is so cool. More than one way to remove the dermis from a feline. :-)
By "freewheeling" you mean holding the clutch in?
CF
Sounds like that to me.
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Done Sir Done.
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I get it now....he's free wheeling!!!
That's where the disconnect is. He free wheels while braking, then changes gears and eases out the clutch.
Actually in his mind, (and in practice) blipping isn't required as the clutch plates pay for the difference in speed with premature wear.
It's a choice that's he's free to make. I think I read in that article that EBoz also uses the clutch slip technique. I just had rather not think about the clutch modulation required to use this technique nor the loud clunks of my tranny changing gear....then there's the cool factor of blipping revs going by spectators on the brakes just before turn-in.
This sport is so cool. More than one way to remove the dermis from a feline. :-)
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Congrats BPEZ on your success. I am also with TPM. I look forward to my L1-L2 schools and my red sticker. Reading your story has fueled my desire.
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Perhaps the concept escapes you (you're not the only one, you're just brave enough to admit it).
Blipping has but ONE PURPOSE and one alone: to match engine revs to rotational speed of the rear tire once the gear change has been executed.
That means, that when you change gears, up or down, you somehow have to get the engine rpm in a "range" where it will not break traction.
In most cases, blipping will only need to be done while downshifting prior to turn in; can't think of a reason to do it on an upshift as there's little to no risk of breaking traction with slower turning rpm.
With that said, the only reason to downshift is to allow the rider to DRIVE through the turn, increasing gas immediately after turn in and direction change.
The concept can often get lost due to it's association with the obsolete term engine braking. The rider, desirous of slowing to set corner entry speed rolls off the gas. The engine is attempting to reduce rpm in spite of getting back-torque from the drive train. The rider then applies front brake to reduce speed. In a non-racing situation he can turn-in and suffer with low-rpm for the drive out, which is okay. But for the "trackday racer" he wants to maintain momentum and the rush of the drive.
Knowing that his rpm will be too low for an effective drive through the turn and at exit, he executes a gear change to put the engine rpm back into it's sweet spot. If he doesn't match rpm, the rear tire will hop, and so for the split second that the clutch is pulled, he raises engine rpm (blips), releases the clutch and the rpm/wheelspeed relationship is maintained.
Hope this helps. You could learn this on your own, or you can use CSSs Control Trainer. I don't recommend parking lot practice. It would be best if you could see someone do it, then mimic.
Honestly, I do it (blip) and it only costs a few pennies, but I don't think I could if I were standing still and focusing on it.
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36 on the rear for street riding: maybe fine, but why have a real different pressure for the street? Is the bike being ridden 2 up, or is the rider very heavy, carrying gear?
Some say, "Well, I get better mileage." OK, valid. But, me, personally, I'd rather have better traction. After tossing my first bike down the road in 1978, because I let the tires get too worn down, I just don't compromise with tires. I run what will get the best possible traction, and I don't let them get worn down. Maybe if I were a motorcycle courier I'd think differently!
C
Valid point, but I would change if I felt that the pressure sacrificed traction, which I don't. I run 2-up rarely but when I do I bump the rear preload. I also run the higher pressure because I don't run the pace of the track hence I need the higher pressure to help generate internal heat (gas law).
I don't have any emperical data, I've just arrived at my street pressures by feel and egg-headedness. Track pressure: I got advice one day and just stuck with it until I felt I knew enough to change.
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King Kenny is still one of my favorites. He did it in multiple disciplines, and he was always looking at the sport from a view of better show, expand, train new riders, etc.. But sticking with his riding:
I watched him at Laguna (not sure what year it was) wheelie past the then current US Formula 1 champ Mike Baldwin, going into turn 9 at Laguna (now turn 11). What made this special was that Mike was on the brakes.
Kenny wouldn't just check out and smoke these guys either, he'd stay around for a while and make it a show, it was great to watch.
So, who's your favorite and why?
Cobie
I'd like to add that Josh Hayes gets mad props from me. Here is a guy who basically developed the ZX-10 Superbike when with Attack Kawaskaki (and won the superstock championship), then when bigger names (Haydens) were selected to ride the machine he gracefully stepped down. Now that he's also gotten the shaft from Honda he earned his way onto a World Supersport team. Although he's now doing 11-13th places, I'm sure his skill level will be leaps and bounds ahead of AMA riders if/when he returns to race in America. GO JOSH!
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Ok, here's the official dope.
Tire pressures for public highway use vary from machine to machine and are chosen by the manufacturer. Regardless of what the tire says, you go with the machine spec tire pressures found in your owner's manual or perhaps on a tag under the seat.
That said... the 180/55 ZR17 D209 Qualifier rear tire I pulled off the rack this morning said "805 kg max load at 42 psi".
Perhaps there is a difference between US and UK spec Dunlop ratings, but, check what your bike calls for. And, IMO, I still say tht 42 psi is too high for one up street riding.
r
Then we'll be wrong if we go by the Owners manual. Mine says 36/42. Too much for street riding. Squares the center of my Michelin Pilot Pro tires. The Dunlop D208's (or was that D209s') I had would do better (longevity) at those pressures. I get really long life out of my tires and I want it to stay that way. Right now I've got about 10k, 1-1/2yr and 3 Trackdays and am nowhere near the wear bars, nor dry rotted tires.
Hi Jaybird,
What bike are you riding?
In any case, I'd guess the manufacturer probably isn't thinking about race compound or semi-race dual-compound tires being used on the street.
Regardless, this is a good example of why I suggest using a single compound street tire like the Dunlop Roadsmart for normal street riding. And, why I suggest talking to your tire rep.
racer
I'm riding a 2002 Honda CBR600F4i on single compound Michelin Pilot Pro tires. I typically run about 32/36 street and 31/30 track. Dave Moss (suspension guru) suggests that tire wear can be controlled with proper suspension. I think mine is setup well due to the control that I have and the good tire wear. FWIW, my last 2 trackdays were in wet/semi-dry conditions so the tires didn't get a full workout.
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OK, with engine braking, if you didn't get it, I don't know how else to explain it. It's something you'd have to do, but you did explain it properly.
And with the blipping, what I do is backwards I think.
What I'm taking is that I need to shift THEN blip and release the clutch lever. If that's what I'm supposed to be doing, it would explain my problem.
Thou hard way is sure to land thee on thine ass. If thee didn't get the Sportrider article, here is the article from thy beloved KC: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=258
Go forth and do great things.
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Engine braking happens when the clutch lever is out, ie. disengaged.
If you have the clutch lever pulled in, there is very little* or no engine braking.
Lever pulled in is clutch disengaged= not transferring power
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Right, the engine is there to make the bike go faster, not slower.
Hubbard,
What exactly are you doing?
There are some corners that I just have to learn, and am trying, to blip the throttle. I can't afford that loss of speed. On a big straight with a slow corner at the end, I have points, just like cornering that I hold in the clutch, start braking, downshift (on the East straight from 4th to 2nd) and engine brake (doesn't matter if anyone likes the term or not, that's what I'm doing) while I'm using the front brakes for most of my stopping. I have a point just before the turn or a little into it that I have the clutch all the way released and am back on the gas.
Ah....
There are 2 techniques to downshifting. Sounds like you're using the "B" technique. IIRC Jason Pridmore and a relative few others use the technique. It costs more to use such a technique. I recommend learning and practicing the "A" technique. Take a look at this article:
http://www.sportrider.com/ride/rss/146_040...ttle/index.html
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Ok, here's the official dope.
Tire pressures for public highway use vary from machine to machine and are chosen by the manufacturer. Regardless of what the tire says, you go with the machine spec tire pressures found in your owner's manual or perhaps on a tag under the seat.
That said... the 180/55 ZR17 D209 Qualifier rear tire I pulled off the rack this morning said "805 kg max load at 42 psi".
Perhaps there is a difference between US and UK spec Dunlop ratings, but, check what your bike calls for. And, IMO, I still say tht 42 psi is too high for one up street riding.
r
Then we'll be wrong if we go by the Owners manual. Mine says 36/42. Too much for street riding. Squares the center of my Michelin Pilot Pro tires. The Dunlop D208's (or was that D209s') I had would do better (longevity) at those pressures. I get really long life out of my tires and I want it to stay that way. Right now I've got about 10k, 1-1/2yr and 3 Trackdays and am nowhere near the wear bars, nor dry rotted tires.
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Ya know, now that I think about it, I don't like the term "engine braking". I think it gives a false impression. True, the engine will help to slow the speed of the rear tire against the pavement, but it's not a brake.
The purpose of the downshift is to setup for the drive, mid corner and at exit. The braking effect is just what you get from rolling off prior to braking and can help settle the front if the timing is right.
But I guess this is all off topic. I've only barely tried the rear brake technique and don't see how it contributes to rear squat (I'm sure there's a LOOOOONG thread here about that debate). Good Nite.
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The one rider I despise is Mladin. OK, we get it. You are on the fastest bike in AMA racing. Now go race the big boys and let's see what you can do. And he complains and has a poor excuse for his loses. Your bike failed inspection and your points are gone. Don't start complaining and inviting everyone to inspect the other two bikes.
I agree about the complaining and excuses and attitude. Didn't he ride a season with World Superbikes or GP back near the beginning of his career?
Anyway, I think he's probably satisfied with his comfy salary and isn't looking for a challenge. Can't say as I blame him for that. I mean, at his age: a bird in the hand... , eh? Why go get his a$$ kicked by a bunch of young bucks and maybe risk losing his salary or his big fish/small pond reputation? That said, he's not on my list of respected competitors.
Sorry to be the dissenter here. 1st --the topic wasn't "who do you hate and why" so let's get off of that, Pulease...
But I would like to say that I disagree about Mladin. I don't see him as a whiner OR I didn't see the comments you were referring to. Seems to me that his perspect......nevermind (just a waste of time anyhow) Good nite.
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If I understood correctly, Keith says (TOTW1) that for a sportbike, front brake only will produce the shortest stopping distance. True/ False?
Since you're asking about the shortest STOPPING distance I would say you need a combo of both front and back brakes. Initial rear brake to lower the rear and bring down the CG then the rest of the braking will all be on the front. Sportbikes have 2 brake calipers on the front for good reason. On the track you only need the front to scrub off some speed.
I never read TOTW1. Plan to though.
Is the effect of engine braking from the rolloff enough to "settle the rear"? FWIW, I rarely use the rear brake, mostly for holding at a light or the rare off-track excursion. It's perfectly fine with me if I never need a new set of rear pads as I'm pretty anal about those front brakes (hey, what can I say, I like to stop).
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I don't commute. My bike is strictly pleasure.
02 F4i drinking 87 octane
K&N, Muzzy s/o and untuned PC3
Track Tires?
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Ah, you're right...I run the higher pressure to reduce tire wear...seems to be working.