BLSJDS
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Posts posted by BLSJDS
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I was one of the many that drove down through central NJ in POURING rain to NJMP, only to find a dry track
. The weather actually turned out great because it was cloudy & somewhat cool.It did rain overnight & Tuesday morning the track was a little wet, but it dried out by the 2nd session of the day.
I'll be down again for the July 30th & 31st sessions
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You will relax more once you are confident that you are operating the bike properly.
And I'm not saying that you are NOT riding properly, just that your posts indicate that you are uncertain, which can present problems once you start picking up the pace.
Heck, I think I know what I'm doing (or at least supposed to do
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[quote name=Okay...but I'm still not getting much in the way of advice, except "think about the turn and not about your tires". How do I stop the alarm bells from going off when I reach that higher lean angle? How do I convince myself that I can carry 45 degrees of lean or more around a slow corner and not lowside? What is a good method to build up my confidence?
In my case, the alarm bells stopped going off when I felt confident on the bike (confident that I was executing the techniques correctly, that my body position was correct, etc) so I would agree that building confidence is key.
I was able to build my skills / confidence through CSS, and would not have made even 1/10th the improvements I've made over the last 3 years without them. Since that is not an option for you, is there any training / coaching available at the track days you attend? How have you been learning up to this point? If coaching is not available, then I would say grab a copy of ATOTW II and practice every single drill detailed (not at the same time, of course
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Bullet asks excellent questions (as always
). To put a finer point on your issue - is there a certain point in the corner where you have the LEAST trust in the tires? Or, at what point do you feel the least comfortable?
- Initial turn in?
- Once you're reached a certain lean angle?
- Initial application of throttle?
- Once you start rolling on the throttle more?
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I'm always working on throttle control...
(Don't throttle the guy that just cut me off, don't throttle the conductors on the late train, don't throttle the idiot parents that yell at their kids during a little league game...
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Good insight for sure, Guy
.Many times I can trace back to a mistake on a previous corner(s) that absolutely affected my line on the next corner. Sometimes I know it immediately and am able to correct quickly, other times it takes some thought to figure it out.
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I believe the photographer is Etechphoto.com. I have his card if you need additional info.
Dan
What other info do you have on the photo guy BLSJDS? The website doesn't work. And i found an old thread from on here from 05-07 where the website didn't work.
Damn it - I JUST threw out the card this weekend
. I would contact Whitney Fair at the CSS office - she could probably tell you how to get in touch with the photographer. -
What bike are you riding / racing? Do you have adjustable rear sets? Even a small adjustment in footpeg position could help significantly with body position, getting locked on to the bike, and body movement. Your butt really doesn't need to move that much, but your torso does, especially in the chicanes / quick transition corners.
FWIW, I am 6'0" and used to weigh 195 lbs (not muscle
). This year, I dropped down to 180 lbs (mix of cardio and weight training) and found it MUCH easier to move around on the bike and was not nearly as fatigued at the end of the day. I would definitely recommend working on physical fitness. -
My terrible instruction most likely hinders instead of helps. After he / she high sides, I run into the woods...
B;
I'm not sure that what he's after but I LOL'd on this one.
Thanks for that.
Rain
Glad you caught that
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Assuming this person knows how to operate a motorcylce, it is a track day, and his/her first time out:
I suggest he / she takes it easy and stays relaxed. Then I explain the importance of being predictable, what "lines" are, and what is generally considered a good line.
I then jump right into throttle control, using very light brakes, and the two step. Throttle, controlled speed, and the importance of vision (where to look, when to look).
By this time, 5 minutes are up and the rider has WAY more questions than answers. I leave him or her with a pat on the back and a reminder that adding lean angle AND throttle is a common cause of track day crashes, so be careful. He/she can't really process the jumbled mess of information I've relayed in 5 minutes and only remembers something about throttle, leaning, and crashing.
My terrible instruction most likely hinders instead of helps. After he / she high sides, I run into the woods...
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Thanks, Timmer. Does it make any sense to get the auto tune while still running the stock exhaust? I don't feel like the bike is underpowered (which is why a full exhaust isn't the first thing I'd like to get), I'd just like to optimize the way it runs, throttle response, etc. The auto tune / LCD set up is very trick
.I did read that re: the PARE valve and the need to remove it if using auto tune (or anything with an O2 sensor, I suppose). There is a pretty good write up on how to remove it / block it off on 600RR.net.
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Nathan,
Nice going....I hope you find the next three as mind blowing. Level three was what did it for me. You have pretty good form maybe you should try racing...good luck mate!
Funny - that is exactly when it really "clicked" for me as well
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That is from Chapter 17, all about steering, and one of the questions in the intro is this: "How many times have you noticed (at mid-turn) that your corner entry speed could have been higher?"
This is about being able to quick turn the bike, and although I know you have already learned this technique, it is one that can be very useful in making you feel you have a larger safety margin, allowing a higher entry speed without triggering SRs. From what you've said before, it sounds like you are already using quick turn but it bears mentioning for the sake of others who are reading this, since, to quote the book again "Your quick turn abilities determine your corner entry speed. Period."
Absolutely worth repeating. Turn 1 at Thunderbolt comes after a long straight section. I immediately know that I could have entered the corner at a higher speed because I wind up apexing a little earlier than I had planned due to a quick turn that was actually quicker than necessary for my speed, if that makes sense. Again - the great thing about the track is you get to repeat that corner over and over again, making small adjustments each time until you get it dialed in.
Of course, the Two Step ties into this, and once I figured out WHEN to look at my apex and for how long, I was able to really hit my lines consistently and confidently increase my speed.
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I already started looking into PC Tuning Centers for a possible dyno run or two, not for a HP increase but for that "nicer, smoother" throttle response. Sometimes it just feels a little too "twitchy" going from off to on. A WAF would definitely show something like a momentary lean condition at that time. Would the Auto Tune be able to clear that up?
The slipper clutch might be my next big purchase - I could have used it more than once at Thunderbolt
.Actually, my head is SPINNING trying to decide what to get next. The items are:
1. Camera & data logger set up
2. Slipper Clutch
3. Full Akrapovic exhaust
4. Auto Tune
5. Track bodywork
6. Engine Covers
Any suggestions?? I need to win the lottery!!!
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Awesome Kai - just awesome! I don't know how I lived without the quick shifter for all these years
.I did hit neutral once because I stupidly shifted into 1st (thought it was 2nd) and gave too light of a tap shifting from 1st to 2nd. Revved the ###### out of it - ha ha.
The fuel map I downloaded from the PC web site didn't feel much different from the OEM map; I was hoping the transition from off throttle to on throttle would be a bit smoother.
All in all though, I am very happy. Gotta figure out the rev limiter now
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I was in Level IV on Monday & Tuesday, white group, black leathers, on an '08 orange & black CBR600.
I am taking Level IV again in July, and probably again in Sept, and again next year, and again the following year
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I just want to say the Level 1 was eye opening,the things I learned are really going to help me build a strong foundation in my riding.I've been attending track days since last year about 6 in total so far.I still ride in Novice group but I have a track day next week and I think Im going to see if I could get evaluated so I can get bumped up.I gained so much confidence its unbelievable!I have to thank coach Mike for working with me he was super cool.Im going back for Level 2 in September.
By the way I'm trying to find out who the photog was at the 5/21 NJMP school so I can try and see my pictures.Hey trackjunkie77 - sorry we didn't get a chance to connect on Monday. I worked with Mike as well; he is an excellent coach, as they all are. I am booked for July 30 & 31, and will probably try to book Sept.
I believe the photographer is Etechphoto.com. I have his card if you need additional info.
Dan
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I had a similar experience at my first track day. The control rider started picking up the pace and eventually I got to the point where I was uncomfortable with the corner entry speeds, because I had no idea whatsoever what the proper techniques were, the proper body position, where to look, how to control the throttle, etc. The only thing they focused on was following "the line". Which I sort of get, because you want to be predictable on a track with novice riders, but at the same time, you can't just go faster by going faster
.Interestingly, one of the challenges for me now is figuring out how much faster can I go. This is where excellent technique, repetition, and baby steps come into play I suppose
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This topic could easily generate a lot of discussion, since there are so many variables that affect what can be considered a safe yet fast corner entry speed, be it on the track or street.
On the track:
For me, one thing is for sure: as my skill (and therefore confidence) level increased, my speed was soon to follow, almost naturally. I have no idea how fast I'm going, but I do know that I am comfortable cornering the bike at speeds that I never thought I'd be doing a few years ago. The repetition alone at a track helps tremendously in the learning and development of a consistent "feel" for speed.
At CSS, you are specifically coached NOT to look at your speedometer (they tape over it
); it is your vision that tells you if you are entering at an appropriate speed or not.I could go on and on, but have to leave work now...
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So much for the perfect forecast
. It shouldn't be too bad, though. -
Thanks Kai - I am going to look into that
.You're welcome. Feel free to PM me if you have some questions about the SW.
PM sent - thanks
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Welcome to the forum! Maybe I'll see you in NJ this Sept
.Dan
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Thanks Kai - I am going to look into that
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Sorry you ruined a shift rod Dan, but glad you got it figured out.
Hope you enjoy the quickshifter...they're pretty fun.
Don't be - it was my own fault
. Rarely do I ever complete a project without destroying something. A shift rod is small potatoes. I'm just glad I didn't destroy the Quick Shifter - ha ha. I ruined a brand new oil cooler for my 'vette because I didn't properly tighten the connecting hose fittings (once again, the strength of aluminum does not meet my expectations ).Anyway - I love it - can't wait to enjoy it on the track!
. The weather actually turned out great because it was cloudy & somewhat cool.
.
) and still get into trouble... 
. I would contact Whitney Fair at the CSS office - she could probably tell you how to get in touch with the photographer.
.
.
); it is your vision that tells you if you are entering at an appropriate speed or not.
Shoulder Position
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
I agree with Kai; from what you are describing, it sounds like a helmet fit issue, rather than a body position issue. Unless you are riding "crossed up" (torso & shoulders pointed in the opposite direction of the turn); that would definitely amplify the problem.
FWIW, I had the same problem several years ago with a Shoei I used to have - limited sight, contact with the back protector, etc.