BLSJDS
-
Posts
230 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by BLSJDS
-
-
I'll be doing that this weekend, for sure
-
Ok good man, good answers. Yeah, Apex is more important, and you described some of the benefits very well. Line is all about throttle really, and getting back to the throttle in accordance with the rules. If you can't, your line isn't right.
You're also learning that maybe it's possible to look in to early as well, which results in poor throttle control right, or should we say compromised throttle, i.e you can get that roll on right?
The timing is very important definitely, when we look should be defined by what do you think?
Bullet
Thanks, Bullet!
We should definitely be looking into the turn BEFORE turning the bike, but at what point exactly? When the turn-in reference point is no longer in our "wide screen" of vision?
-
I think the apex is more important than the turn in point. The correct apex is a good indication that your entry line is appropriate, and it will allow for the best exit line. You will be able to get on the throttle as soon as possible, and roll it on throughout the turn. So I'm going with Apex
Unless it was a trick question - ha ha!From my experimentation, looking in late has caused me to back off the throttle because I didn't have an early, wide view of where I wanted to go, the line I wanted to take, etc. Depending on how quick I turned the bike, sometimes I hit the apex too early, but more often too late. It was a bit erratic.
I seem to consistently early apex when I look in too early, which is why I'm trying to incorporate this two-step drill into my riding habits.
I do think the timing of when to look in to the turn is important. Have I placed too much emphasis on it? I haven't yet found the best time to look in, although I seem to ride fairly decent lines when I'm not overly focused on anything
-
When practicing the two step vision drill, I am finding that I'm having a hard time NOT target fixing on my turn-in reference point. Initially, as I approached a corner, I would spot my turn-in reference point, but would quickly (too quickly) get back to looking "through" the turn. As a result, I was unable to turn at that reference point consistently.
In ATOTW II, Keith talks about focusing on that turn-in reference point, and then at some point shortly before you reach it, switching focus to looking through the turn. After attempting to practice this method, I find that I'm too focused on the turn-in reference point and the transition to looking through the turn is way too abrupt (and I've lost the "wide screen" vision that is so important).
How do you guys practice this? How does the focus of your vision change as you approach and navigate a turn? How much attention do you give your turn-in reference points?
Any guidance or insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Dan
-
On the street, sometimes I focus too much on turning in deep that I occasionally wind up turning in TOO deep. I think it stems from not selecting a turn in point for each corner versus when I'm on the track, the reference points for turning are marked with cones.
I think I'll place some cones at a few of my favorite corners - ha ha!
-
Dan--not sure if this is the exact issue, but I have 2 coaches that are blind in one eye. One is very, very fast, the other is pretty darn fast.
I think what Keith covers in the Level 2 classrooms on this gives a different view of the eyes, and what the rider is doing with them--have you done L-2? If not, there is some good info in Twist 2 on this.
CF
That's great to hear (not that they are blind in one eye, obviously) that they have been able to achieve that level of riding - it is very much the same issue in that only one eye is responsible for vision.
I haven't done level II, but have read (and re-read and re-read) the chapters pertaining to vision and vision drills in Twist 2.
Thanks very much (sorry to get a bit off topic)!!
Dan
-
For me, after only 1 track day, I rank finding a corner entry speed I am comfortable with & consistently hitting it, along with maintaining WIDE vision as my top two. The other skills seemed to come a lot easier when these two were achieved.
I probably struggle with corner entry speed & maintaining wide vision more than most because I do not have binocular vision. My right eye is the dominant eye and my left is very slightly crossed. As such, my depth perception is terrible. I am able to compensate for it (for the most part), but will probably not be able to ride like Rossi anytime soon
Hey Cobie - have you ever had anyone in class with this issue? Just curious what your observations were / are.
Dan
-
Thanks guys!
Maybe in 10-20 years, I'll have 30% of this cornering thing figured out - ha ha!
-
That's a good point. If I reduce my corner entry speed a bit, pick my line, and apply Rule #1 when steering is completed, I could incorporate practicing the correct method!
-
it's amazing how little track there really is with cold tires. Bet one of the match guys could put a number on that.
You're telling me!! I read the reviews on the Pirelli DCIII before buying, and I knew they would be terrible in the rain and not ideal when cold (but like glue once fully heated up). I had no idea they would start to slip THAT easily when cold on a cold day. I rode home like I was on ice
-
To all:
While operating at less than 100%, not "pushing it", and staying well within the envelope of traction frees up some attention to learn the track or run drills and allows a rider to "adjust the bike" or to execute mid-turn corrections to their line, the dominant goal, even when "just having fun", is to actually learn the track and gain the ability to choose a good line that follows Throttle Rule #1 (& #2) at any speed without needing to make mid-turn adjustments. racer
One particular turn at Pocono East had my number for most of the day. Despite being shown, I could not find a line for myself that didn't require a mid turn correction. It wasn't until later in the day that I finally discovered the correct line for my speed / ability. To your point, racer - my goal for the beginning part of next year is to become extremely familiar with the track and be able to consistently follow a good line.
-
I'm at work, but always carry ATOTW2 with me for reading / re-reading on the train
Throttle Control / Rule Number One (Section 1, page 7):
"Once the throttle is cracked* on, it is rolled open evenly, smoothly, and constantly* throughout the remainder of the turn."
As a beginning track rider, I find that I tend to hold steady speed / throttle until after the apex, at which point I slowly begin to accelerate. I just don't have the experience or comfort level to apply it any earlier. On page 25, the question of "when" is addressed, and the answer is "as soon as possible". Not at, right before, or right after the apex, but as soon as possible and AFTER steering is completed.
For me (at my level), making sure I am riding the correct line is easier without the application of additional throttle
-
Thanks racer - I was hoping I didn't ruin the tire! I immediately wiped it off, and after a quick ride, couldn't see any visible discoloration of the rubber.
BTW, brand new COLD Pirelli DC IIIs, on a COLD day (it was below 50 degrees when I went out), really slide out easily!! (Unless it was the WD40 - ha ha). I think I passed my first real SR test because when the rear tire started to slide out around a corner (I stupidly snapped it into the turn pretty quick), I just kept on the throttle and drove through it. The bike came back nicely and I was on my way, though my heart rate tripled!
-
While cleaning my chain today, I accidentally sprayed WD40 on my brand new rear tire (because I'm an idiot!). Not a full blast, but some overspray. Brand new Pirelli DC IIIs!!
Anyway, is there anything I should / can use to clean it off? I'm guessing I should take it easy for the next few rides. Any other suggestions?
Thanks!
Dan
-
I agree, Cobie - lots of good info here.
I'm motivated to make my next eye appointment now!!
Thanks to all!!
-
Too damn funny!!!!!!!!!!
-
Thanks Cobie - the info regarding the contacts does help. At the track a few weeks ago, I started out wearing my sunglasses, but found they moved around too much and it was very distracting. I bought a tinted shield, so the sun should be less of a problem, but I think I might investigate the possibility of wearing contact lenses.
Jaybird - I don't know if I'm a good candidate for laser eye surgery, but I'll certainly ask.
Thanks!!
Dan
-
I last had my eyes checked about 2 years ago; 20/20 in each eye. However, I think my vision is deteriorating a bit (I spend my working hours in front of a computer). I do wear very mild glasses at work just to sharpen things up a bit, but don't wear them at any other time.
For those that have glasses or contacts to correct your vision, do you prefer to use the glasses or contact lenses while at the track?
I am asking because I want to go in for another eye exam and was contemplating contact lenses as I think they'd be less intrusive than a pair of glasses under the helmet.
Thanks for your input!
Dan
-
I'll catch up with him in Valencia this weekend
It probably just gives him something to do before the corner as he probably has a good $9.98 worth of attention left!
-
Watching Rossi yesterday on the Speed channel, I noticed he kept sticking his left leg out as he approached one of the left hand turns, almost dangling it out before putting his foot back on the peg, extending his knee, and taking the turn.
Just curious as to why he would do that? Maybe his foot was falling asleep? Ha ha
Wild watching him pass Pedrosa and then go on to lengthen his lead by quite a bit!!
-
Thanks Cobie! I plan to re-read that book several times.
You are right on re: Pocono East - I could clearly see more aggressive wear on the left side of my tires. Air temp when we started in the morning was well below 50 degrees F. I have the original tires on my '03 954 and although they passed tech inspection, I definitely felt them slide around a bit for the first 3 or 4 laps (was running 26 psi F and R). Needless to say, a new set of tires will be mounted this winter!
-
I attended my first track session / school at Pocono Raceway a few weeks ago. Fortunately, I did not crash, but came very close to it. It was my third session of the day, but the first session that I was riding my own pace (instead of following the instructor). After a few laps, I started to get a little more confident and became more aware of the faster pace of the other riders on the track at the time.
So, I (stupidly - ha ha) decided to increase my speed where I could, which was really only the straight sections. I also started to enter the turns faster, which my ability probably wasn't equipped to handle just yet. After coming off a very slow and tight right hand turn, I accelerated hard on the straight away approaching a left hand turn. Because of my inexperience, lack of ability, etc (and the fact that I was going a lot faster than I had been, which caused me spend too much attention on my speed and not enough on everything else), I wound up missing my turn-in RP. I turned late and was not able to "flick" the bike into the turn either, so I wound up running very wide. I knew right away I was heading off the track, but fortunately still had enough track to get upright, slow the bike, and head safely into the grass. I kept the bike up and re-entered the track when it was safe. That definitely woke me up.
Funny, because the instructor said, prior to the third session, that if someone goes down today, THIS will be the session it happens in!
After reading ATOTW II, I came up with a LAUNDRY list of things I did wrong on that particular turn alone. My entry speed (for my ability) was too fast for that corner, I missed my turn-in RP, I wasn't able to turn (or flick) the bike quick enough, my body was not positioned properly prior to the turn, and I don't recall looking through the turn (probably because I screwed up everything else so badly, there was no point - ha ha!).
Dan
-
Thanks Cobie - much appreciated! I'm really glad I found this site!
-
Hi racer -
I hadn't even thought of that regarding right hand counter-steering; that makes a lot of sense.
I can tell you that I was holding the bars too tight (nerves, adrenalin, etc), and definitely "holding myself up" with them, especially during braking. I think you described it perfectly - I was "leaning on the bars" with my body to initiate the turn.
I was not trail braking at all at the track, but have experimented with it on the street a few times.
I just ordered ATOTW volumes 1 & 2 from Amazon. I can't wait to dig into them!
Dan
Unless it was a trick question - ha ha!
Two-step Vision Drill
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
After a few hours of practice, I still cannot answer the question of "what defines when we should look". Or maybe I can...
I can tell you that, because of my renewed focus on the correct line and apex (as the more important elements), I am much less concerned with the turn-in reference point.
Now, as I approach a corner, I select a turn-in reference point, but immediately go back to "wide vision". My focus remains on the corner, and I let the reference point fade from my view. As it does, I transition to "looking through" the corner. I then make the turn based on the entry line I've visualized, rather than the reference point.
Hopefully that makes sense...