jrock7896

Using tire warmers is not a waste of time at all.... How many people crash at track days due to cold tires? Answer... at the ones I go to LOTS... Also how much do I spend on pilot power race tires... 300-360 depending on the deal of the day.... TIres like the power racde last longer if they dont have to go thorugh as many heat cycles.... How many sets of 300 doller tires to you use on the track.... depends opn the track and riuding but anywhere from 1 to 4 days is what i get. Using tire warmers helps your tires last longer due to less heat cycles and this will save you lots of money in the long run. Also how much do you think its going to cost to fix your bike when you crash due to cold tires? My advice... buy and use tire warmers if you are using track day tires such as power race If your using standard pilot powers they may not make as much sense. I like to pull out of the pits and know that cold tires are not limiting me in anyway... unexpected things happen on the track especially with many other riders around on the first wrm up lap

"Most riders think that rolling on the throttle brings their bike up at the end of the turn even if they are only accelerating a small or an average amount. What does that tell you?" So does the same thing happen when your roll on throttle while leaned as when you cut it? Is there an initial "stand up" when you roll on throttle that has us all fooled into thinking it happens throughout the acceleration when we are actually steering? Or is it just that we are subconsciously steering the entire time once we begin to roll on out of the turn. Interesting that acceleration will only widen your arc, but it actually makes sense when you watch motogpgp or ama. The arc those guys use coming out of corners is the widest possible.. Hence the most acceleration possible... correct? Thanks for your insight and for the oppurtunity to use the forums, ive ordered your book tw2 and vey much look foward to reading it.

Perhaps you are correct, good observations I would also suspect that there is some gyro effects in play.... It also seems that the bike will actually lean over more in a turn if you cut throttle after reaching maintenance throttle... Perhaps the front tire losses most of the forward drive or push actually in this scenario and its has a tendency to turn out more hence causing the bike to fall over more do you notice this as well? I use counter steering very consciously when coming out of turns in order to set myself up for a trun that might be very close aftwards such a chicane or whatever. However when I come around a nice corner that empties on to a bit of a straight away where I am not worried about setting up my line for the next turn, I think I let me acceleration alone pick the bike up. In other words once I hit apex of just before it I roll on throttle and how much throttle I can roll on is directly affected by how close my bike is pushing out to the edge of the track due to acceleration. I think this is why when you watch professionals they push their bikes out to the very edge of the track after turns that dump onto a bit of a stright… They are trying to get maximum acceleration out of the turn and if acceleration picks the bike up like I am sure it does then one would want to use the entire width of the track so one could get maximum acceleration out of the turn before going into the straight. Keith please chime in and school us....

No friggin clue as to the physics behind this ... Does it not? I was of the understanding that acceleration stood the bike up. Agian this is from attending a riding school and I am simply regurgitating what I have been told. I have no problem admitting I am wrong, but when on the track after an apex or even before for that matter any time I am leaned over and roll on the throttle it certianly feels like the bike is picking itself up, although I could be unconsiouly giving steering input I guess.

"The only thing that will literally Stand your bike back up... JUST The same way that you put it into that turn direction wise.. is "Steering" input. Correct me if I'm mis-informed, but a motorcycle will not come up out of a turn at any speed by itself, getting on the gas or not. Steering it in and out of a turn are the only single effective ways to "turn in and out quickly, and precisely." I do believe you are incorrect... Accelerating out of a turn will stand that bike up for you with little or no inputs to the bar ends.

Racer.... Thank you for providing your feedback and for disputing my admitted regurgitation of what I learned from others. I have not been riding long and I am not going to pretend I know alot but, I am here to share ideas and thoughts and learn.... Let me ask you this.... If trailbraking is not the fastest way around a track why do I see every single mtogp rider trail brake into corners? Why do most schools teach trailbraking as an advanced technique to get around the track faster?

You are right. You don't. Brake before you reach max lean. Well you obviously cant apply brakes very hard at maximum lean angle. If you say “maximum lean angle” then that means you are using up all of your available traction on carrying the speed through the corner. Lets take a more realistic look at braking in corners… Yes you can use your brakes in corners and in fact if you look at any advanced rider you will see that they use their brakes in corners. The technique used is “trail braking” It is called this because the brake is slowly trailed off as the bike slows down for the slowest and most leaned point of a turn the apex. Riders use trail braking for many obvious reasons…. • If you do all of your braking before the turn then you haven’t entered the turn as fast as you could have, if you were to continue slowing right up until apex. • Braking in a straight line does not give you the same braking distance as a curved line does. • Being on the brakes and turning in changes the geometry of the bike so that you can turn in a bit quicker. Lets assume you know all this and that you weren’t talking about trail braking at all and that you simply want to know if you can brake leaned over in a turn hauling ass.… YES you can apply brakes at any time on the track. Just remember that anytime you apply the brake, lean the bike, accelerate you are taking up traction and if you at anytime take up more than the available traction you will slid the tire out and most likely low side. So if you are leaned deep and are hauling ass and start to apply heavy braking you can do so up until the time your available traction runs out…. What point will your traction run out???? This is the question and threshold that professional racers ponder, flirt with and experiment with every time they are riding hard. However most professionals I have talked with say that you can get away with much more aggressive braking than one might imagine while leaned deep and that there is some physics formula out there that backs up their claim. I recently went to a school where they covered the formula, I will try and dig up my notes and will post. Essentially though, it tells us that the relationship between braking and lean angle is not directly proportional. Oh yes and the bike does start to want to pick up when braking, but you should be able to counter steer to negate this side effect of braking. THis is obviously done while trailbraking... Keith or anyone please correct me if I am wrong as I am just regurgitating lessons I learned in racing class. this forum is an awesome learning opportunity.

The best handeling bike I have ever ridden is my current bike a 2006 r6. Why? Well the only bikes I ever rode before this were a Yamaha Warrior and a Ducati St4s. SO I really do not have anythign to compare it to... Compared to the Duc it felt flighty and unstable when I first got it, but that was becuase it responds to every little input compared to the more stable duc. Once I became more smooth in all of my actions and realized how sensitive it was to input it became a rock The r6 feels completley solid now. Its not really fair to compare a sport touring bike to a race bike, but that is all I have to offer. I did notice a hell of a difference when I got my front end re-spruing and re-valved for my weight and riding style and my Elka rear shock helped out alot as well. If I could do it over agian I would have done those things to the bike before I ever even tried to go to the track.

Toe/ hard parts of bike touching down while leaned deep Running off the track into grass or dirt etc.

You want your weight more forward and over the front of the bike to keep the front end from pushing. You should be able to find a position that gets you there. I am 6'1 almost 6'2 and I have no problem riding my 2006 r6 in such a manner so your height is fine. Im not saying it will work for you, but what works for me is to obviously jam my inner thigh right up again the tank and hold on with my leg and I get my chest really low to the tank on the side I am turning making sure my head is over the side and bury my forearm (the one opposing the turning direction) into the tank for support. If I want I can remove both hands from the clip ons and stay on just fine using my leg and forearm. You shouldn’t really have any weight on the wrists while you are leaned off as you want to give as little input possible to the front end after your initial counter seer or before while braking for that matter. Hope this help.... Im no expert but I do ride