YellowDuck

I am serious, indeed! My point is that, if done by the book, you will not be able to fall even if you push it beyond your current mental limit. In order to lean more and stay rubber-down you need to understand and conquer your fear. Riding that turn free of that fear, you will lean more, down to the physical limit, without experiencing the outcome that you fear now. Easier said than done, I know. This is not about motorcycling, this is about an irrational fear that bothers you and limits the performance of your bike. It is irrational because others passing you show you that the bikes can physically do it. The difference is that those riders do not interfere with the physics behind the process of taking a curve. They don't interfere because they have learned, in a classroom or by falling, that any fear they feel will create problems for the bike. Chapter 7 of A Twist of the Wrist II explains the whole thing very well. I have fallen due to the front, the rear and both tires and is not as bad as your mind makes you believe it is. Your survival reaction is nothing more than an exaggerated fear to an event that is perfectly survivable. Relax, my fiend, and just enjoy riding..........and even falling eventually. Ah, okay...I get your point now. I agree - it is an irrational fear...in fact I have said as much already in this thread. What I was hoping for (and am starting to get) was some advice on how to get past that fear. Since I know (intellectually) that the bike can safely lean more, and yet I am still a chicken, that tells me that merely knowing is not enough in my case! If only life were that simple - just act objectively on knowledge and understanding and block out everything else..... I know this is a personal thing, that not everyone experiences. I have seen fearless kids come to their first track day on truly ###### bikes and carry more corner speed than me by the afternoon session! Still I do get your point and I thank you for hammering it home. Must relax...must trust the tires...the bike can do it...I can do it...relax...trust...just ride....(slips into transendental state.......)

Just find the lean angle at which the bike will low-side. If you use the 40/60 rule for weight distribution and leave the steering bar alone, you may not be able to induce a low-side before the metal parts start scrapping the pavement. Have you fallen on a track before? Is really that terrible? Are you serious? What ###### advice! Yes I have fallen on the track before and, although it could have been much worse, it is not an experience I am looking to repeat. The fact that lots of folks circulate with a lot more speed / lean than me, sometimes on less capable equipment, indicates that my bike is capable of much more than I am currently getting out of it. But I'll approach those limits intelligently as my skills build, thanks, rather than chucking the bike down the track and calling it a "learning experience"!

Michel Mercier runs the FAST school here in Ontario - I will likely take that later this season or early next year. I am also trying to find a private coach but that turns out not to be so easy.

Thanks anthem - I found the above very useful. Trying to turn in quickly and set my lean angle in more or less one decisive step is not something I have consciously worked on before. I will definitely try to improve that! Regarding throttle, my normal habit is to trail brake just a little during turn in (gradually releasing the brake while I add lean), but to get on at least neutral throttle quite early - certainly before the apex in all cases. However, as mentioned, sometimes if I end up with more lean than I am comfortable with this will all go to pot and I may even roll off just a tiny bit while cornering so as not to run out of room on the exit. Those are the "pucker moments" I am trying to eliminate and so far they pretty much always happen in long, slow corners. And yes, for clarity, we are just talking about track riding here - I don't even ride on the street anymore.

I'm glad you agree. Over the years of coaching, I've met many, many students, looking for complexity and difficult answers to explain there problems/predicaments. In most cases the actual problem is often not the immediate one that the rider thinks it is. The reason we ask questions by the way, is to make you think about your problem and to make you part of the answer, rather than just giving you the answer on a plate. In the riding world, there are so many, many riders full of false advice, (advice like, oh, just go faster, you'll be ok mate), and misunderstandings of "the why", and we like to cement your learning by making you part of it. After all, aren't all the best things in life, hard earned and thus fufilling? Bullet Okay...but I'm still not getting much in the way of advice, except "think about the turn and not about your tires". How do I stop the alarm bells from going off when I reach that higher lean angle? How do I convince myself that I can carry 45 degrees of lean or more around a slow corner and not lowside? What is a good method to build up my confidence?

BTW, reading back overthis, I think Bullet was right on with this comment: I'd wager there's both factors at play here, you're understanding of what your bike will do, and removing your attention from the tyres into the turns might be a massive factor here? I definitely do better when I think about the turn itself rather than about what the tires are doing. But, when that leads me to a lean angle that is more than what I am used to, I tend to freak out a bit. Also, the slower the corner, the more I am afraid of lean.

Ha, some actual advice, instead of just more questions! I was beginning to think that CSS stode for "Code Socratic Society". Yes, I think the "lean wall" is a good way to describe what I am experiencing, although it is not happening at 20 or 25°. From the second photo you can measure about a 40° lean angle. That's probably about as far over as I ever get...but I think in slow corners it is less. I will definitely try keeping my eyes more level with the horizon. I was actually surprised when I first saw that photo to see how tilted my head angle is. Thanks for that suggestion! Hopefully more advice is forthcoming, because I feel like a few other respondents understand what I am talking about. Regarding the tires, they are Pirelli Superbike Pro trackday slicks ("redstripes"). I think they are essentially Diablo Corsas without sipes - so, not the kind of compound you would find in a true race slick. They are designed to be usable without warmers, and to withstand many heat cycles. I don't use warmers, but my first full lap is always at 60 to 75% or so to get heat in them. I have monitored tire pressures and temperatures carefully and am pretty sure I have that in the ballpark. Anyway, as I stated, the tires themselves never do anything but work perfectly. The problem is a mental one.

I have tried putting my attention on different things, and find I do better if I sort of think about trying to "work the tires", i.e., consciously try to build up lateral g's, while also staying relaxed at the bars. However, even then, I eventually reach a lean angle that makes me think "eek, is my boot going to hit the ground?" You can see from the photo that that is not likely! So, in other words, I *try* not to think about lean angle, but it ends up popping into my head at a certain point when I am farther over than normal.

For sure, it is once I reach a certain lean angle.

Thanks for the reply. To answer your questions: 1. My feeling is that the front might wash out, or that I might ground something hard and lever the tires off the ground. I don't have a very good idea of what it would feel like prior to losing traction. I have been on slippery new tires (mold release) before, so maybe it would be something like that? 2. I understand that the wheels produce a gyroscopic effect which increases with speed, so that should resist changes in lean angle. Beyond that I know nothing about how wheel rotational speed affects things here. I guess it could explain to some extent why slow corners feel spookier to me? There is less inherent stability in the bike at low speed? 3. I don't think it is speed per se that spooks me. In very fast corners I am nowhere near full lean either, but the speeds are much higher and I feel fine with it. I think it is a fear of lean angle that is limiting my speed, not my fear of speed limiting my lean angle. If I take a slow corner so fast that it requires more lean angle than I am comfortabe with, I sometimes end up end just staying off the throttle until wayyyy past the apex, until I am moving slow enough that I feel I can make the exit at my current (inadequate) lean angle, and only then will I add throttle. That is just awful - truly pathetic riding, since I *know* it is 100% in my head. I think what I need is an exercise to progressively introduce higher corner speeds (especially in slow corners) so I can get comfortable with the increased lean angle. I should be able to just screw up my courage and force myself to do it, but so far that has not worked. Conceivably, this could be a purely mental exercise that prepares me for the session - not necessarily an actual activity on the bike. I don't think CSS is in my near future - travelling to the US to attend a riding school would be pretty pricey, and not terribly convenient. Could happen someday, but not this season.

I am pretty sure that my biggest limitation with respect to lowering my lap times is my lack of trust in my tires. I have been getting my corner speeds up but very, very gradually, and I know there is a lot more lean left in the bike if I could just get comfortable using it. This is especially a problem in low speed corners (second gear, low rpm) - I just can't convince myself that the froNt won't wash out, but never, ever ever get any indication from my tires that a loss of grip is imminent - it is all in my head. Of course this creates a lot of tension, but I have been able to force myself to relax more at the bars and this has helped the way the bike steers and handles. What should I do next? BTW I just ordered a copy of TOTWII but it hasn't arrived yet... I don't have any photos of myself in a really slow corner, but attached are a few in a faster pair of corners - 11 at TMP, and 12, which exits onto the straight. I like my head position in 11 but hate it in 12 - I am staring right at the apex cone, and my eyes are not level. Working on that too. Anyway, 12 is a good example of a corner where I know I am not taking enough entrance speed - the fast guys all come around there with their knees on the deck.