YellowDuck

I posted one entry on my blog after our practice weekend. Here is what is going through my head just prior to Round 1. http://prairiedogracing282.blogspot.ca/2014/05/plans-for-round-1.html

Our entire race series takes place on the same track, but it has multiple configurations to keep things interesting. That track is 2 h away. I have another motorcycle friendly track about 1.5 h away, a world class highspeed but somewhat dangerous track (Mosport) 2 h in the other direction, and on that same site there is a much tighter little "driver development" track that also has motorcycle track days. 4 h gets me to Shannonville, where there are track days and another motorcycle race series but I haven't ventured that far yet. By all accounts Calabogie is the best track in the province, but that is 6 h away and so I haven't done that one yet either. All in all though I would say I am spoiled for choice! When you get up to 3 h drive or more, it really seems like you need to make it at least an overnighter or even two track days back-to-back to make it worthwhile.

Just found this thread now. Awesome report, thanks so much for posting it!

We ran Q3s on the GSXR600 endurance bike at our first practice session last week. I wasn't sure about pressures so just used what I ended up with on the Q2s last year (30 front / 28 rear cold I think but I am going from memory). Like a lot of tires they were a bit slippery for a lap or two but once scrubbed in they were wonderful. Air temperature was 15 to 18 C so definitely not hot. I had Bridgestone V01-Rs (soft / soft, 26 / 26 cold) on the other bike and honestly at my pace I couldn't tell the difference - both tires could do whatever I asked of them. We are talking mid-pack novice race pace here so no doubt the faster guys would be pickier, but I can't imagine *anyone* finding these tires lacking on the street. Glad to hear that the wear is also excellent because we are on a tight budget with the endurance bike.

I am going to document my race season on this blog: http://prairiedogracing282.blogspot.ca/ Feel free to subscribe if you would like to follow my progress.

Well, that was a great day, but the results could not have possibly been less conclusive. The V01-R slicks were slippery for the first two laps but once they were scrubbed in they were perfect. There was literally nothing I could do within my comfort level that was going to make those tires lose traction. Encouragingly I easily met my lap time target on what was a new track layout for me. With those times I could actually campaign this 1000 cc 2V air-cooled Ducati in the rookie 600 class. I may well give that a go. But for sure I will be competitive in Battle of the Twins. During the 4th session my oil cooler broke and oiled my left boot. So of course I got right off the track and let them come pick me and the bike up with the trailer. That left only the 2003 Gixxer 600 to ride, which was on Q3s - my brother rode it intermediate and I took it out with the fast guys. My best laps on that bike were 2 - 3 s off what I could manage on the Duc. I wasn't expecting that. Was it the tires? Or the fact that I had never ridden an inline 4 on the track before and it took me a while to convince myself to wring it out properly? Also, no slipper clutch which I am also not used to. By the last session I felt like I had it working pretty well, but the times just didn't reflect that. Maybe the Duc was just better suited to that track layout. So, who knows. I sure would love to test slicks and Q3s back to back on the same bike.

Two days out and the forecast has improved considerably....so excited.....been watching tons of video on the track layout we will be running (new to me). I can already see every apex in my head...

Just reviving this thread to mention that, sadly, the weather around here was not conducive to any April testing, so my first outing on the bike with slicks and warmers will be this Saturday. Unfortunately that will not be at my "home track" so I won't know how my lap times compare to my previous bests. We will however also have the endurance bike on hand with Q3s mounted so I can at least compare the tires to some extent...although the bikes are very different (2006 Ducati Sport Classic, which is a 1000-cc air cooled twin, vs a 2003 GSXR600). Still, it should be interesting. This might be a real trial by fire for getting used to the slicks. 5 days out the forecast says a high of 15 C, and also a chance of rain. Obviously, if it rains I am not going out on the race rubber, but even if it is dry I will be curious to see if I can keep heat in the tires with 15 C air temperatures.

In street riding my bum stays put but I still move my upper body weight to the inside. If you need to hang off in any kind of extreme manner while riding on the street you really need to take it to the track in my opinion. Seriously, around here there are few corners that I would need to hang off for even going twice the posted speed limit. In my part of the world, if they catch you doing 130 km/h in an 80 zone they impound your vehicle and take your licence away right there beside the road. Given that reality, it's more fun to stay on the seat and at least enjoy a bit of lean. But still not enough fun, which is why I gave up street riding altogether. Even when I lived in a place where I had access to fun mountain roads with tighter corners (north GA, TN, NC), the point of completely socially-irresponsible ass-hattery came well before the speed where I would need to hang off like a racer to preserve lean angle. I could have fun, but I felt guilty doing it. If you can't restrict your street riding style to something like Ianetsch's "The Pace" then, again, it really is time for the track if you ask me.

I won't be doing that . For it to be a fair test you would have to be trying your best in both cases. Sitting bolt upright on the bike with your bum in the middle of the seat and your head centered over the steering head while trying to turn a fast lap sounds like a good way to crash. There are probably a multitude of reasons for this, but I can think of two off the top of my head: 1. altered CoG which would make the bike handle quite a bit differently than what I was used to. Bad juju. 2. part of setting up properly for any turn, even on the street, involves "committing" your body to the turn - getting your weight to the inside, at least a little bit. If you don't get yourself in that position and then find yourself in a situation where you need more lean than you expected (e.g., you overcook a corner entry) then you will find yourself even more upright than the bike, pushing the bike down beneath you MX style. Very spooky and dangerous on a regular sportbike (okay on a supermoto I think). Besides, if I tried that and the event organizers caught me they would send my down to novice group...

And cornering. Yes, exactly. And low weight helps more than strength does in that sense.

I have practically no technical knowledge about brake pads, but I love the Ferodo XRACs. I am running 4-pot / 4-pad Brembos (not radially mounted) and a conventional master cylinder, which is probably lower spec than what you have on the R6. My brake fluid is nothing special (regular old DOT 4, Pennzoil I think). I have never noticed the slightest bit of fade with this setup. Initial bite is adequate and modulation is excellent. These pads do need a bit of heat in them to work properly, so corner 1 on the warmup lap is not where you want to test them. Make sure you are 100% certain of a good bleed before you blame the pads. Sometimes air works its way through the system so bleeding several times at 1-d intervals can be useful. Another trick (don't ask me why it works) is to keep the lever strapped tight so the system is under pressure over night, then bleed.

I could be 100% wrong about this, but I have my doubts about how important strength per se is to the MotoGP racer. So often they are turning on the brakes, it seems like corner entry is more about balancing braking with turning than it is about turning it really hard. I am sure there are certain chicane-type situations where strength comes into play a bit more to get the bike from one extreme lean to the other quickly, but overall I kind of doubt that it is a limiting factor. Currently the best rider in the world is a skinny little kid with very little upper body development. That ought to tell you something. MM is an elite athlete but if he could bench press 150 lbs I would be astonished. Leaving MotoGP and returning to the world of mortals...I ride a relatively slow steering bike,and I can honestly say that even at "race pace" I am *never* turning the bike as hard as I could at the limit of my available strength. If any muscles are getting tired, it is the ones involved in keeping me on the bike under hard braking and cornering (legs and core muscles), not my chest, arms and shoulders. If I am not in good shape I can get a bit winded by the end of a session, but it is not from too heavy of an upper body workout. As I have gotten faster in the corners I have noticed that it takes quite a bit more effort just to keep myself in proper position on the bike. If I were lighter I would benefit greatly because I wouldn't need so much strength to resist the g-forces and maintain proper body position. Like I said I could be totally wrong about this, so feel free to disagree - maybe I'll learn something. But you only need to look at the guys to realize that MotoGP riders are built more like jockeys than boxers (underwear pun unintentional).

Yes weight makes a big difference. Less weight = more corner speed within the limits of available traction. Also, harder acceleration out of corners within the limits of available rear wheel traction. Also, harder deceleration under braking within the limits of front tire traction. The only place where it probably doesn't matter much is acceleration in high gears and ultimate top speed, since both of those are much more dependent on aerodynamics than mass per se. But even then, light generally equals small which may well equal more aerodynamic. So yes, it matters. But even more so on smaller displacement machines where the rider weight is a higher fraction of total bike + rider mass. And of course, it probably also matters much more at the highest levels of racing. At the club level a very talented big guy is going to beat the modestly-skilled smaller guy 9 times out of 10.

You ask me, they're all a bit "crossed up" by today's standards. Riding style fashions come and go, and those guys all cut their teeth on bikes that were nothing like today's racing machinery, and with pretty crummy tires as well.

We have neighbours who just moved here last summer from your neck of the woods (GA). They are about at their wits' end. We keep telling them that this is not normal...

Was hoping to finally get a test and tune session in this Saturday at the track. But,today we woke up to more snow, and the forecast high for Saturday is only 11 C. 3 C overnight. Blech. Sorry, no point to this thread - just venting. Hopefully those of you in more climatologically agreeable parts of the northern hemisphere are enjoying a better start to the season! Now shooting for the 27th.

Not unless you are riding around with the suspension topped out (which you had better not be). As long as it is not topped out with you on board, the spring compression will be the same - however much it takes to support your weight and the bike's weight. The fact that you achieved some of that total compression with preload and the suspension is therefore more extended in use does not affect the additional suspension action per unit force. The exception to this the case of (usually) forks with really long topout springs. If you add so much preload that you are riding around with the topout springs engaged then yes, the suspension will be stiffer at the top of the stroke. But that's an exception, not the rule. Eirik, I know you like technical stuff, so I am betting you will enjoy this site. Best series of technical articles on motorcycle suspension I have ever seen: http://www.promecha.com.au/springs_basics.htm There are three technical articles on springs, and then it goes on to linkages and leverage. Thanks for the link. About preload - even if the suspension isn't topped out, you will still vary the amount of negative travel. You will notice a difference between 1 cm and 7 cm of negative travel when it comes to absorbing dips. A huge difference. Agreed. Not topping out the suspension hard in big dips will make quite a difference in how it feels. 7 cm is not a realistic number though - that would certainly lead to bottoming under braking or even hard cornering, if you could even achieve that much sag.

Not unless you are riding around with the suspension topped out (which you had better not be). As long as it is not topped out with you on board, the spring compression will be the same - however much it takes to support your weight and the bike's weight. The fact that you achieved some of that total compression with preload and the suspension is therefore more extended in use does not affect the additional suspension action per unit force. The exception to this the case of (usually) forks with really long topout springs. If you add so much preload that you are riding around with the topout springs engaged then yes, the suspension will be stiffer at the top of the stroke. But that's an exception, not the rule. Eirik, I know you like technical stuff, so I am betting you will enjoy this site. Best series of technical articles on motorcycle suspension I have ever seen: http://www.promecha.com.au/springs_basics.htm There are three technical articles on springs, and then it goes on to linkages and leverage.

Great article that no doubt will be of interest to a lot of street riders. I do take exception to this though: One tip is to soften the suspension, especially at the rear, so you aren't feeling every distracting bump and ripple in the pavement. That feedback alone can make a rider wary of approaching traction—and lean—limits. A plush 30–40mm of sag when you are seated on the bike is a good place to start. While I agree that 30-40 mm is a reasonable sag setting for the street, removing preload to add sag is not going to "soften the suspension". It is just going to change the position in the stroke where the suspension is riding, and reduce the chance of topping it out on negative (extension) travel - spring compression will be the same. In fact, on most (practically all) bikes adding rear sag will make the rear suspension a bit firmer because of the progressive linkage - the mechanical advantage that the shock has over the swingarm increases as the swingarm rises, which it does if you add sag. Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Otherwise great article.

It would feel like Xmas morning if saw that much improvement just from tires! But I'm not counting on it....if it was 1 s I would be very pleased.

Thanks, good point - another reason to have a good test and tune day before the first race weekend. I am pretty comfortable working through suspension adjustment - fair bit of experience there. I expect at the least I will have to remove some rear ride height, since the slick is 190/55 whereas the Q2 was 180/55. But we will see! Yes, very interested in the Q3 / warmer question, as we have Q3s on the endurance bike. Or, at least we will if we ever get it built!

Thanks Tyler, confirms my suspicions about the difference on corner exits! And of course, in a race situation, you would put even the Q3s on warmers, yes? I know I would.

Thanks for the helpful replies! The plan is to have a "test and tune" day in April, not at the track where we will be racing, but at a different track where I have tons of experience and know exactly what lap times to expect. Other than the tires I haven't done any performance mods to the bike - I just want to get a day of experience playing with tire warmers, getting the right pressure in the slicks, making sure my exhaust isn't going to melt through the new bellypan, that kind of thing. But, that day should also provide the opportunity to assess whether or not the slicks make me faster in a typical "track day" (not race weekend) environment. Not totally scientific though, since I have also lost nearly 20 lbs (off me, not the bike)....that's gotta be worth a few tenths, don't you think?

Honestly if I could afford to race cars I probably would. A lot more expensive getting geared up to do that though. Motorcycles offer truly awesome performance at bargain-basement prices compared to cars. The costs of buying, maintaining, storing and transporting a track car put it out of reach for most of us in the 99%. I can race a bike for not much more than $5000 per year. Same goes for street riding. I remember being a teenager with very little money, buying my first bike (used 1982 GS850G for $1400), riding it all over and on camping trips. I remember thinking "wow, if I was never any richer than I am now, if I could still afford to do this, that would be just fine". Here in Canada the insurance industry has pretty much made that impossible for today's teenager...but they haven't been able to ruin track riding for us...yet.