rchase

I'm a Mac guy but went and bought a Toshiba Satellite at Best buy for $299. It's a 15 inch display and has a big drive in it. It's dedicated for my Datalogger and with my RCK2 software. For good measure I also have a full set of service manuals for the S1000RR on it. On the small laptops. Before the Toshiba I had an e-machines netbook. The data was amazingly crammed on that display for me. It's size was great for portability but looking at the data afterwards is just painful. I would not go lower than a 15inch display again myself. Here's a photo of all the data crammed on the tiny display in my trailer. One other thing. Don't forget a wireless mouse. It's amazingly helpful and makes life easier and faster than dealing with a track pad.

No problem. Let us know what you find out about CMRA. Might be helpful for other people in the future. Good luck with your first season of racing. I think it will go well for you. Code Race is a great start!

Just an observation. Race tracks are far from a vacuum. Lap times alone don't decide race outcomes. Riders have an affect on one another and that was demonstrated quite well by Marquez and Rossi. Valentino won 9 championships previously. The man has lost his share of races and championships. Why would someone with his reputation start making creative excuses in this stage of his career? If he said there was an issue I'm inclined to believe him. What's his motivation for making things up? Regardless of what the outcome of this situation is there's an unfortunate side affect for both Lorenzo and Marquez. Some serious doubt around their integrity. In the short term Lorenzo won but what will that do for him in the long term? Only time will tell.

Honestly. Not much of a MotoGP fan so I'm neutral here. I saw the highlights from a few of the races and have read a lot of the articles. If you look at the facts alone there's some really strange stuff going on. As an outsider with no rider I particularly care much about it sounds like Rossi got screwed. Honda still has not released telemetry data from the Marquez crash. Of course it was never in their best interests to do that as it would not support their version of the facts. Issues like what happened to Rossi really are the reason I have very little interest in MotoGP. It's far less about being fast and far more about politics and playing with the rules the best. When you read about bike manufacturers like Honda getting political about the rules for advantages for their platform you realize it's less about racing and more about just winning at any cost. Including losing the spirit of right and wrong and fair competition. The real question is would have Lorenzo won his championship without the help of Honda, Marquez and his own willingness to betray his own team? He won. The real question now is what it's going to cost him.

That's a good point. Initially when I used my Contour +2 it would not keep up because of the GPS refresh being too low. I had to max out the refresh rate for it to be able to keep up with a bike. Works just fine now.

In my situation with a bike that's super eager to turn overdoing it would probably land me right up on the curbing and potentially to the inside of it. You probably won't finding me "over flicking" the bike anytime soon. I'm not sure if the flick rate issue is a problem on it's own or a result of the visual confusion mentioned previously. Logically it makes sense to fix the visual issue first. In shorter corners while my turn rate is not the fastest out there it's not as much of an issue as it is in the longer turns. Maybe with more reference points it won't be a problem anymore. I really appreciate the insight and experience you shared KHP. I'll probably work on my flick rate for some of the shorter corners I'm already 100% comfortable with first. There's always room to improve everything.

Here's a question. I was watching some onboard footage of mine and comparing it to another riders. In long corners my turn technique tends to be to slowly feed in the turn as the bike needs more turning force. It's a constant thing during the corner tightening towards the end with more lean angle. The other rider commits to max lean right away with seemingly no adjustment at all. This is obviously just rider error on my part. My theory on the reason why I do this is because I don't have enough information to quick turn in the corner. I'm never quite sure the way the bike will react and there's probably a slew of SR's about getting it wrong and having to make a big correction. So my question is... What's an intelligent way to approach increasing flick rate and committing to higher lean angles without ending up in a panic situation? Or. Is this just a symptom of the earlier discussion of a lack of reference points?

One other thing... Please be careful with your mobile phones if you decide to use it on the track. My suggestion is if you want to use one you put it in the tail or secure it to the bike in some fashion. Phones tend to be hard inflexible objects. Stick it in the wrong place inside your suit and have a tumble and you could get injured. As well if it's not secured well it can become a projectile for other riders. A phone coming off a bike at high speed can shatter bodywork, windshields and helmet visors. I know you guys probably have thought of these things already but it's worth a mention. Great idea though for having a platform where you can grab data. Most smart phones have GPS's, G sensors and other specific peripherals that can record lots of information depending on the app you use.

Before I joined the world of computing on two wheels my previous bikes were completely analog with no electronics at all. Some of them even had mechanical instruments driven by cables and grumpy carburetors. That never stopped me from wanting to get more insight into my riding. How do you do it with an analog bike? The GPS lap timers are a great option. MotoD makes a great one from what I have heard from people using them. They give a lot of great information. I took a different approach on my bikes. I had a camera mounted right behind the windscreen that gave me a view of the tach and speedo. I also was using a GPS enabled camera that could read speeds and trace the layout of the track so I could view lines. With just that simple setup on a bike that's biggest electronic component was a few transistors I was able to see speed, RPM, Line and with the video get an insight on estimated lean angle and other elements of my riding. Those basic things are some of the more important data. Speed in the corner is speed in the corner everything else is just additional information. I still use my camera the same way on my RR. You can see things that you won't easily find in the data. On my bike it can see the the speedo, tach, ABS light and DTC lights as well as my gear indicator. That's a good amount of information available without even resorting to the onboard data logger. When I review my day at the track I'll often look at the video first and relate that to my recollection of how it went. Then I go to the data and start looking at specifics. With all of this technology it's important to remember one thing. Its a help but it can't replace your own mental observations while riding. Being able to match the numbers to the feel is VERY important. For me it helps me review and quantify what I'm actually experiencing. Riding beyond 80% and relying on the data afterwards to tell you how you did is probably not a great way to improve. You will miss out on a lot of good information that bike can tell you right away.

Great resource there. Some pretty cool information. One of the cool things you can do with the data is visualization. Here's a trace of my bikes GPS signal with the throttle position color coded and corner speeds listed. Ignore the numbers (I'm still learning the track even to this day) but you can see where I was getting on the gas and a spot where I was having some throttle control issues. From turn 11 to turn 13 this is considered one corner. Notice the blue green blue green alternation of my rather timid throttle hand? Visual information like this can communicate a lot of data in a very powerful way.

I use mine to answer specific questions rather than just looking at every single bit of data and drinking from the fire hose. Here's a good example of what I look at. Take for an instance a corner I'm having issues with. With the datalogger I can go in and trace my exact line, my entry and exit speeds. Where I got on the brakes and where I got off the brakes. I can see turn points, lean angle and traction conditions by observing the slip rate. I can see what worked, what did not work and have a record of everything I did and match that with what it felt like I did based on leaving that extra bit of attention to observe. I usually wait until after the day and look at all the data at once but you could easily pull the data each session and review while you are at the track. One of the things that's helpful for me is to have another riders set of data. It requires a bit of trust but it's a good thing to look at to be able to understand what you are looking at. Find a fast rider you trust and send them on track with your bike and allow them to set a base line set of data for you at a lap time you want to eventually achieve or a "hot lap". You can then take that specific corner and compare on exactly the same platform without the guesswork of comparing lap times with a rider on different tires or setup. It's been useful for me at least for showing me that I'm not even CLOSE to the outer limits of what can be done with my bike. Another thing that I find really useful is being able to see my improvement over time. I keep all of my data archived. A quick review of the "high points" of your previous data can show you your improvement over time. When I'm not looking for anything specific I will often look at the high level stuff. Lap times, Max speed's, Max RPM's, Max Braking pressure, Max Lean angle and compare those same 20 mile view metrics previous rides on the same track. Do keep in mind that what's important to me might not be as important to you depending on where you are with your riding. For example a more experienced rider might not really be interested in lean angle because they know they can confidently reach max lean within the first few seconds of entering the corner every single time. They might be more interested in the slip rate and entry speed. Hope that gives you some ideas for what you might want to look at.

I found this link the other day and figured it would be a good resource to share with the forum. BMW has some demo software for the BMW datalogger on their site so you can download it and "review" data like you would on data pulled from the bike. It includes a demo version of the 2d software and some demo data to play with. This would be quite useful for someone who's interested in understanding data acquisition or the BMW Datalogger. Just a word of advice. The 2d software has a bit of a learning curve (it's a professional grade tool) and takes some patience to work with and understand. Once you get over the learning curve it can tell you virtually anything you want to know. Of course part of the problem is you are often swimming in an ocean of data. You have to often know what questions you want to answer and then go to the data to find what you are looking for. Here's the link http://www.bmw-motorrad.ca/com/en/motorsports/hp-race/download/software/datalogger.html I have learned a lot about the software in my time using it to look at my own data. While I can't guarantee I'll have an answer if you have questions feel free to PM me. P.S. I'm not sure that this is "just" a BMW thing. 2d offers a lot of products to race teams for a number of different bikes. The software may be quite similar to options available to any model bike out there. If you are bored sometime give it a whirl.

How soon we forget the theme of this thread and my preference in corner types. I really enjoy the thrill of corners just like that one. If I ever designed a track it would be a combination of technical corners and tire blistering high speed straights. Perhaps some chicanes and a few medium corners to keep from wearing people out too much. In fact. if you figured out a way to extend all the straight bits at Barber that would be just about the perfect design. 195mph approaching the brake marker for Turn 1 sounds pretty fun to me. I probably won't be designing a track in this lifetime at least. I suppose I should focus my energies to adapting myself to those long corners that seem to baffle me so much.

It sounds like they probably attended the Penguin School and that they are using the terms to describe strategy. To have a true understanding of what they are talking about you probably need to either take that school or at least read the material to fully understand. Beyond understanding the specific vocabulary being used in the conversation I bet if you thumbed through some of the Superbike Schools books you could likely find a lot about the core concepts involved. I have read all of the books and I still go back and read them and get new perspectives every time. Next time you see those guys go chat them up and ask them. For a long time I was too intimidated to go and talk to "the fast guys". I eventually got over that and have had some amazing and enlightening conversations. Most of them are SUPER friendly and love an opportunity to help out. One word of caution though. Keep in mind their level of understanding and skill in relation to your own. I have been given advice that at the time did not work for my skill set or understanding. I have also had concepts explained to me that I never knew existed because of speed differences. Listen but also decide for yourself what works for you at the moment. File some of the information away for future reference.

Road Atlanta is no slouch. It's a much faster track than AMP. Despite being so close I have only been to Road Atlanta once. Probably need to do something about that next season! One of the tracks I want to ride is Laguna Seca. And the school operates there too! The Corkscrew just looks like that "ultimate corner".

Yeah. That's what I was thinking. The cornering forces just would not allow the bike to turn. If I do decide to "try" the car line it will be at a cautious speed so I don't discover the "why" without any options on the table for a recovery. The Track is Atlanta Motorsports Park. http://www.atlantamotorsportspark.com/ The Track was designed by Hermann Tilke who is a pretty well known F1 track designer. It's a tight track and the videos don't do the elevation changes justice. It's challenging enough that most of the track day providers in my area have visited the track but won't operate there. Here's a photo during a morning track walk that shows the elevation at the track. If anyone is interested in riding there let me know. The small track day org that I ride with regularly does days there but some of them are not officially listed on the schedule. I would be glad to get you guys information and perhaps be able to enjoy meeting and riding with you. I'm at every single day there. Of course for some people even a tight technical track like this is easy for them. Here's a photo of Nate Kern "backing it in" to turn one on his last seasons HP4. The photo is nothing to how impressive it looked and sounded in person. After turn one he typically is on the rear tire all the way to the entry of turn 2.

That's actually a very important point. Can we think of some vocabulary from CSS taken completely out of context in a controversial way? Probably best to get the answer from the horse's mouth directly rather than trusting others interpretation of the terms. I think CSS's program is one of the best in the industry. I do however enjoy reading other perspectives and ways of thinking about the same concepts. If someone can track down the document those terms are listed in I would not mind reading it myself. I don't always agree with everything I read but it's often quite thought provoking.

Hmmm... Here's my guesses. Probably mostly wrong. - Entrance focused corner - Corner where entry speed is the most critical element. "Go in HOT! " - Rolling speed corner - I have heard this one myself used in a couple of different ways. The first way was to describe keeping maximum mid corner speed to maintain a lap time. The second way I have heard it was to describe the way a rider will come into a corner and use minimal maintenance throttle to just "keep it rolling" mid corner. - Drive-through corner - Corner where the exit is the most critical element. Go in a bit slower than you can and focus on the maximum speed at the exit. "Slow is fast" It would be interesting to see some other spins on this as well as see people translate these to CSS vocabulary where it applies.

I'm out there just to have a good time. I can't tell you the amount of times I have let a less powerful bike by and then stalked and watched in the corners and learned some new tricks from them. Save your super awesome secrets for when you get some distance otherwise I'll be trying them out the very next lap. It's not only an opportunity to be courteous and help someone improve their lap times. It's an opportunity to learn something from them even if it's how much faster you can go. A friend of mine is an amazing communicator on track. He manages to communicate clearly an amazing amount of information while he's coaching just with his body. My personal favorite of course is when he's lurking behind you watching and likes what he see's and decides to pass mid corner on the rear tire giving the thumbs up on the way by. The conversation is "Good job Dude! Always remember you can go faster! Catch you later!" I agree on the idea of being careful with communication on a track days. The reality is often you don't know the riders very well. Their intentions, their personality or their abilities can be unclear. It's very easy to misinterpret the message. I had an experience years ago at a track day where I attempted to make a pass on another rider and miscalculated our speeds and ended up near the turn point to the inside of him with a lot less room than I would have liked. I decided to hang back and let him make his turn and just pass on the exit. I did not realize he saw me there and was delaying his entry to let me by and avoid being stuffed. There was an awkward pause while both of us were trying to figure out what the other was going to do. I eventually had no other choice but to turn and ended up getting closer than i would have liked. I made it a point to go and find him and apologize. Super nice guy. After talking to him I realized exactly "why" he reacted the way he did. He was having issues in that corner and to make matters worse that was the corner where he had some uncomfortably close passes. Lesson learned. It's sometimes a challenge to "read" other riders and often your actions are just as unclear to them.

I was chatting with some friends about the Marquez and Rossi issue and I mentioned that Rossi's looking back at Marquez was some unspoken communication. I started thinking about it and I realized that as riders we do a LOT of communication with one another without even saying a word. The amount of space we leave or don't leave is communication. The way that we conduct passes is communication. Hand signals our body position and the way we move can also communicate information. What kind of unspoken language have you witnessed on track and what did it mean to you? I'll start. I had a rider on a much less powerful bike "show me a wheel" indicating that he wanted to pass on the straight knowing he would need my agreement to get by my bike at 100% throttle. We were in the corner entering the straight and he pulled along side me and slowed his roll on and slipped back behind me. I nodded and short shifted and he passed. We never said a word but the conversation was Him: "Hey Buddy. Mind if I slip by you on the straight for this lap?", Me: "Hey no problem I'm just cruising".

Yeah some amazing technology they have going there. That's really useful for seeing and understanding the line.

It's also worth noting. Race schools come in two extremes. CSS style where there's an emphasis on technique and another extreme where it's mostly about on race procedures such as grid position, starting and flags. Between the extremes of course there are the middle of the road schools. It's also worth noting I'm not a racer but I have written race manuals for race schools.

Hey there. Welcome to the forums! Yes on CCS. http://www.ccsracing.us/schools.html Not sure on CMRA. Their 2015 rule book indicates you should contact the administrator for approved schools. Considering they do their licensing through a couple of track day org's it's probably not too much of a pain point just to go through their school. http://www.cmraracing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=596&d=1427951739

Voted. Great videos there. You were really moving around the track for sure.

Yeah. I think the key is reference points. Not always useful for taking action but useful for identifying the location. The two tar snakes are great for position anyway. I always associated reference points with actions of turning or other things rather than just to note position. Position can be very helpful as well. It's important to note that that double apex turn is a car line. The car line and the bike line on that track are somewhat different because of the differences in car technique and bike technique. A good place to note the differences is the exit of turn 3 where there's a brake point before you enter Turn 4. That's right in the middle of a transition on a bike and not a good place to use the brakes. I typically brake lightly before the entry of Turn 2. And even then I sometimes overdo it leaving me entering 4 at 40mph when it can be done much faster. Several Advanced riders and racers treat 14 and 15 as one corner. I may try riding the car line just to see what that does for me but ultimately the fastest way through on a bike is likely the line that the other guys are using. Splitting it into two turns may allow me to find some reference points in addition to some of the ones I have spotted reviewing the video after all the helpful feedback here. There's a big hill, A few TI, TO markers for the cars and some variations in the fencing that were virtually invisible to me because I was often obsessing about my tach while riding. VIdeo is quite helpful at times after the fact. I may try to leverage this a bit while at the track as well as some of my data off the datalogger. Sort of the modern approach of the school's paper and pencil and thinking during the break. With the data and the video I can see exactly what I did and make plans on how to correct some things in real time. Its also helpful too that the video makes the riding seem much slower than when you are on the bike dealing with the sensory overload. Reviewing data like slip rate can also reassure me that I have more than enough traction available. Something I still struggle with because of a lack of experience.