rchase

I agree with you on the idea that racing groups are likely all different. The culture of the group and what's at stake has a lot to do with what you will see. Some of the core concepts I'm guessing would probably be similar. I'll probably do the pit crew thing again and explore a few other places. I know one thing for sure is it's a lot of fun. Even the most budget minded rider has thousands of dollars worth of stuff to ride on the track from warmers, stands, bikes and protective gear. It's amazing being able to leave that stuff laying around and not under lock and key. What's even more amazing is riders you don't even know will watch out for your stuff without you even asking. It goes even beyond your stuff as well. Years ago I lost my footing in a gravel pull off area on the side of a mountain. A group of riders came over immediately to help me get up and dust me off and get the bike off the ground. Perfect strangers motivated only by the desire to help a fellow rider who was having a bad day.

khp. They are the Diablo Superbike slicks. The SC2's both front and rear. The first time I ever rode my bike it was on the same tires and I fell in love. The Supercora SP has a different feel to it. Just as good of a tire for a rider like me but with a bit more sidewall flex. At least that's my observation. Its subtle but you can feel the difference. I fully expect to have some adaptation time to the new tires. I'll have my second bike with me on standard Supercorsa SP's for cold days and "slow days". I'm going to have to figure out pressures that work for my style. As well my style will probably have to adapt as well. I'm going to need to pump up the aggression a bit.

Was back last night but still absorbing the experience. AHRMA is an amazing organization. Seeing bikes from vintage race Harley's all the way to the newest and latest Superbikes all on one place was super cool. I'm sure all of the clubs are just as amazing in other ways. I have to say that I think the best place to watch a race is in a pit crew. Being able to understand all the challenges and issues going on for one competitor and realizing that all those same challenges and issues are going on for other bikes on the grid is a unique perspective you don't get anywhere else. If you have a friend who races you really should consider pitching in sometime so you can watch the race from that perspective. You gain some amazing riding and wrenching tips in the pit. What also struck me was the sportsmanship between the racers and the crews. People who had won or lost against one another on the track were best of friends in the paddock loaning one another tools and even providing information to one another that could adversely affect their advantages against one another. The battle was on during the race of course but nobody took anything personally. On track from what I observed from the sidelines the sportsmanship was amazing. Riders when they had the option left a ton of room. The sense of purpose they had to win kept passing distances reasonable when it was possible. Their only motivation was to get by as safely as possible. None of them were counting how many bikes they buzzed to feed their egos like you sometimes see at track days. One would think that things would be more aggressive with the competition but the riders showed great restraint and maturity. You could tell their thought process was "you can't finish a race on a bike you just crashed". Speaking of crashes. One crash for the entire weekend and that was during a practice on Friday. Only one other incident all weekend which was an electric bike that caught fire. The sense of energy even during the practice sessions was amazing as well. People were up against the fences watching nearly the entire time a bike was on the track and it was a mix of Racers, Pit crew and fans. When the races were on that sense of energy became a sense of excitement. This one is hard to describe and put into words but it's worth mentioning. Even for people who did not win and who ended up as back markers their efforts were universally recognized by everyone. They went out and did their best. Even the slowest guy out on the track (there were a few) were applauded for their efforts and no matter where they finished even if it was dead last. I was lucky enough to know a few people I had met at track days who were competing. One of them blew an engine on a race start and one of them stalled a race start. They were still walking on cloud 9 because they went out and did their best. The lady that stalled during the race start did not let that get her down. She caught up and despite the bad start finished rather respectably considering the half a lap she lost. The guy that blew his engine had a peek inside to see if he could fix things. Even though it was a horrible mess inside he was still glad to be there and overall a happy camper. Everyone took away a "win" of learning and improving something. Even though I have a lot of work to do in my riding to even consider racing I have to say seeing it in the manner I did really started a bit of a spark for me. I never really understood a lot of things that I do now. One of these days you may see me out there even if it's as a back marker. It's a lot of fun no matter where you are. From the fans to the guys like myself putting bikes on warmers and checking pressures it's an amazing ride! For the riders I can only imagine what an amazing ride it is for them. Every last one of them from the 1st place finishers to the guy that finished dead last was smiling from ear to ear. That's nothing short of amazing! If I had to summarize the philosophy it would be as follows "Do your best and have a great time everyone win's in the game of racing".

This weekend I picked up my first set of slicks. A friend of mine handed me a nearly brand new SC2 front. I picked up an SC2 rear at the track. I'm going to give them a try and see what I think of them. I'll keep the heat thing in mind. On cold days I'll have my spare bike on standby with standard SP's in case conditions are questionable. I already religiously use warmers on all my tires. First time out I'll probably leave a laser thermometer on the pit wall and come in to check temps. Better safe than sorry.

Thanks Cobie. That's exactly what I'm looking for. The real question is will MY riding keep them hot enough. It's not really optimal to find out that you aren't keeping them hot enough as the front end is folding under! I'm going to ask a couple of people who are familiar with my speed and style and see if the choice is appropriate yet. I might need to burn up a few more sets of SP's and pay close attention to their temps coming right off the track to see. In some ways running slicks could be an interesting motivation for going faster. Go fast enough to keep the tires hot or you will crash.

I'll have to do that as it would be interesting to see the different scale of those types of races. Thanks for the suggestion.

Makes sense to me for sure. I had an interesting thought as well that I figured I would ask if anybody had some knowledge on. In regards to tire flex and slip. A tire with no grooves cut in it for water clearing would be slightly "stiffer" and more resistant to flex assuming that they were the same compound. A tire with grooves would have more flex to it because of the travel area the surface rubber has when it encounters a force. Is my thinking correct or?

I have watched racing on TV but have never actually watched a race in person. I have always known that I have been missing out on a lot. A friend of mine will be racing this weekend and I decided to tag along to help out and learn more in the process. I figured it would be fun to post about this since likely I'll probably understand some more things seeing a race from a different perspective. Some more details about the race here. http://www.ninetowners.com/forum/bmw-ninet-general-discussion-forum/90530-9t-ahrma-race-roebling-road-raceway.html I'll come back after this weekend and let you guys know what I learned.

Totally understand that with the power delivery. The first time I sat down on one of the School's RR's it intimidated the heck out of me. At the time the most powerful bike I had ever been on was an older R6. Thank goodness for rain mode! When I finally do decide to take the plunge and finally try them on my own I'll come back and let you guys know what I think. I'll also let you know if I chicken out and stick Supercorsa SP's on the bike again.

Cobie, I'm still thinking this through at the moment. I'm about 90% decided on going with the Pirelli Superbike Slicks but I'm still gathering information. I have bodywork coming in from Italy so I have a bit of time to decide still and I also have my 2nd RR that I can ride with a set of Supercorsa SP's on it. Would love to get your input on this as well if you have any suggestions or experiences that you would like to share. Initially when I bought this bike I considered doing slicks because of how much more aggressive it is over a standard bike. I went with the Supercorsa SP's and that was an extremely wise move as it took me a bit of time to get used to the bike and in a lot of cases the sheer intimidation factor alone was slowing me down. When it throws the front wheel in the air I'm not yet happy to see that but it does not "rattle my cage" like it used to.

Did not see the race but you would be amazed how much protection a barrier provides if the physics work out right. I watched a guy in his 60's head straight into a tire wall at 120mph. A bike he was super close to had a mechanical and suddenly lost speed and he was out of options and did not want to hit the other rider. Bodywork was ruined and so was the riders suit but he walked away with a big smile on his face. While it often looks bad the bike is decelerating as it hits the grass and also if it goes through sand or gravel.

Some really helpful information here. I had already decided that I had no interest in the trackday slicks. Having a grip profile that will allow me the option to use "all" of my modes safely is what I'm seeking. Race and slick on this bike were modified heavily by the previous owner who ran slicks on it 99.9% of the time.

That's an interesting tidbit about the SC that I had no idea about. How do you like the SC? How different is it than the SP? I'm considering the Superbike Slicks. It might be worth considering the SC instead. Since my bike won't really be road legal anymore I can run any tires that I want. It's worth considering every option.

Thank you for the info. Beyond what you see in the marketing information there's not a lot of practical use information available about the different tire types. This is quite helpful and confirms a lot of the information that I have already gotten from my tire guy. I'm going a bit against the grain here and going to a slick tire before it's really time based on the general thoughts most people have on tire choice. I'm doing this mostly because of the bike I'm riding. Most of it's DTC tuning was done with slicks in mind and Race and Slick mode have been completely remapped to the point they probably aren't safe at all on standard tires. I have a second RR that's stock and it will stay on SP's for street use and for use when the conditions are not optimal for slicks.

Looks great! Front sensor is arrow straight! The only suggestion I would have is to put some tape around the fork bottom to protect it from potential scratching. Speaking of tape. It's refreshing to see someone else who's having to tape CF parts to keep their boots from scratching them. I even wear holes in the protective tape.

What's really interesting is Scrmnduc who I do the school with every year showed me one of his photos where on corner entry his front tire on his rented school bike was highly deformed. The photographer caught it at exactly the right moment. I'm going to try to get him to post the image if he has a chance and if he's willing. If he does not end up being able to post the image here's a consolation visual. Tire deformation on a 4 wheeled vehicle.

Yellowduck. With the grip of modern rubber how do you think the bike is widening it's arc? You are completely spot on on the forces but the tires have to give a little bit in order for the line to change otherwise the bike would stay exactly on the same arc. That little tiny bit of give is slip. It's nothing like a full on drift. This is something I scratched my head about for quite sometime about and is something i would love to understand a LOT more about. "A non-zero slip angle arises because of deformation in the tire carcass and tread. As the tire rotates, the friction between the contact patch and the road results in individual tread 'elements' (finite sections of tread) remaining stationary with respect to the road. If a side-slip velocity u is introduced, the contact patch will be deformed. When a tread element enters the contact patch, the friction between the road and the tire causes the tread element to remain stationary, yet the tire continues to move laterally. Thus the tread element will be ‘deflected’ sideways. While it is equally valid to frame this as the tire/wheel being deflected away from the stationary tread element, convention is for the co-ordinate system to be fixed around the wheel mid-plane. While the tread element moves through the contact patch it is deflected further from the wheel mid-plane. This deflection gives rise to the slip angle, and to the cornering force. The rate at which the cornering force builds up is described by the relaxation length." A quote from Wikipedia. And the full article here. Its important to note that this article is about car handling and the rounded profile of motorcycle tires and the different wheel configuration do change the physics slightly. Cars understeer or oversteer slightly because of slip but those actions occur way before the tire starts to completely loose grip. That's slip. You probably also feel it when you head into a corner too hot and feel the front end just start to push a little bit but not completely loose it's ability to hold the bike.

So I probably have one of the age old common questions but I wanted to get some thoughts from people here who have likely been there and done that. I already have some ideas but it's always good to have that logic challenged. I'm currently running Pirelli Supercorsa SP's as my tire choice and I'm not riding beyond the tire's abilities. I already religiously use tire warmers for the safety element of keeping tires as hot as possible and limiting their heat cycles and being able to set an accurate hot pressure. I decided to run the Supercorsa SP's because previously confidence issues gave me slow days and fast days. Those confidence issues are starting to become a thing of the past and since I'm going to be converting the bike for exclusive track use only I'm considering slicks because i never ride this particular bike in the rain and when it's converted I won't be able to ride it on the street anyway. Here are some questions. 1. How quickly will they cool if you run into a lot of slow traffic or have to stop the bike in hot pit for a temporary red flag? 2. How is the wear and heat cycle capabilities in comparison to a standard tire? I "barely" get an entire season out of a set of Supercorsa SP's with them being heat cycled out by the end of the season. 3. How much additional grip do you get from slicks vs a standard tire? 4. Any gotchas that you can think of? 5. What's a good compound to use that's good in most warm weather?

Been there myself with the self doubt of my grasp of the concepts. I added in the self doubt of my own abilities for good measure too. I find for me that understanding the physics of whats going on better helps me stay calmer when on on the wrong side of the slip rate and the bike is going wide or eating apexes. Knowing for an absolute fact that adding more power is going to help lets the logical part of my mind override the primitive part of my brain that's trying to fire off SR's like crazy. While it feels safer slower it's actually safer a bit faster. Keeping tires hotter and cleaner gives you more grip.

Nope. That's pretty much it. Motorcycle tires "slip" all the time. It's subtle but once the forces start to act on the bike it naturally gets pulled away from the apex. We can counteract this by shifting our weight to the inside of the corner but only up to a point. Even the pro's don't get unlimited corner speed by hanging off. What's really interesting is if you have one of the bikes out there with a data logging system you can actually go in and see this "slip" on the data. The bikes measure the slip and use that to react with their traction control systems along with other sensors such as lean angle or yaw sensors. Slip data is calculated by the differences in speed between the front wheel and rear wheel. The front wheel just rolls while the rear wheel has the forces from the engine pushing the bike forward. The act of twisting the throttle causes an increase in engine RPM which results in an increase in speed. This speed increase causes an increase in slip and the increased cornering forces plus slip cause the bike to widen it's arc. Predicting slip and it's affect on the bike's arc at different speeds is quite honestly some confusing stuff. Add in the way our body position directly translates to less lean angle and how the weight of the bike also helps change the slip and you can wonder what the heck is going on. That's actually exactly what happened to me. I got used to the "going wide" and adjusted my speed accordingly so I held my line. Then I improved my body position that changed the equation and allowed me to increase my speed. At first of course the same steering input that turned the bike nicely aimed me straight at the apex. I adjusted of course. After that I got another bike with some superlight wheels on it and that unbalanced my mental slip and steering equation all over again. When we are used to the bike reacting one way and it reacts differently that can seriously affect our confidence. It can work in both directions. Going in slower and seeing the apex and inside grass coming at you or going in too fast and seeing the edge of the track and the gravel trap waiting to catch you. What's amazing to me is riders like the coaches at the Superbike School who can change their technique on the fly and know exactly what to expect. When they are following the slow students they often don't hang off because it's not needed and know the exact steering input to put in. When they are going faster they automatically adjust again. If you think about how a coach might have a really slow student plus a really fast student in the same session this is some pretty amazing adaptation.

If I were trying to get sound off of a moving bike I would go small and hide it under the bodywork. http://www.amazon.com/Nady-LM-14-Uni-Directional-Lapel-Microphone/dp/B005FYH112/ref=sr_1_6?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1454475497&sr=1-6&keywords=lapel+microphone Something like that could be run under bodywork and has a lower probability of coming off the bike at high speed due to the wind protection. They have cheaper models starting at as little as $7.99 and up but I'm not really sure of the quality. You could modify the clip and put a screw through it and attach it to something solid and use zip ties to attach it to solid points. You could also probably get away with using a Y adapter to connect multiple mic's to your camera to get multiple area's of sound but the loudest sound will always win out in the recording. Another option would be to use multiple mics and attach those individually to separate digital MP3 recorders. Syncing the time would be a bit tricky but a hand clap or other loud noise right after all the recorders were started would give you a sync time. You could hide the recorders in the tail or under the bodywork as well. You could mic exhausts, intakes and other parts of the bike directly and combine the sounds as separate tracks when you are doing your video editing. That would give you complete control over the sound track as you wanted it to sound.

"Have you ever tried riding a circle in a parking lot and using the throttle alone to change the radius of your circle, just to experiment with it?" Hotfoot. That's a great idea. I'm going to have to try this one myself!

"I understand what happens when you get greedy with throttle roll on. The bike runs wide and you have to roll off and re point the bike for the exit or drop your upper body for the hook turn." Which one of these would allow you to stay on the gas and not risk making the bike less stable? Which one of these works best with the throttle control rules?

This is a problem that I have had as well. You get the turn in but once the cornering forces aren't there the bike wants to climb up the inside curbing. Then you find yourself adjusting your steering input and breaking the steering rules. Ultimately this all comes down to confidence. From your description it sounds like you recognize the solution to the problem. Lets take a moment to look at the "What if's" 1. What if you go wide? Can you use the hook turn technique to prevent that? 2. What if you loose rear grip? Is that an instant crash situation or are there things you can do (or more specifically not do) once the rear starts sliding? 3. Are there people on similar bikes going through that section faster? How do you think they are accomplishing this? In my particular case I tracked my lack of confidence to my visual skills and I'm working on those. I did not have enough reference points and felt somewhat "lost" in the longer higher speed corners. How many reference points do you have in the corners that are giving you problems?

Spaghetti, I have to agree with you there. Some bikes have an intake noise that is often just as lovely as the exhaust noise. A good example of that is the MV Agusta F4. If you look at the front of the bike you notice the fuel tank is two pieces. The front half is a gigantic air box and the black trim on the side are actually hidden intake ducts that feed from intakes under the nose of the bike. Under all the covers is a set of air intake trumpets for the engine that point right at the riders head as they ride. I have tried to record the sound as you hear it riding but I have not had much luck.