Balistic

No wonder you guys are always asking me to change your tires, sissies . I run the tires bald. It builds character and skill. The first thing to go on a Dunlop is drive. the side grip will remain fairly constant so no worries in the turn but you will have feel the tire on the exit. the closer it gets to bald the less extra throttle it will take to spin the rear. This will give confidence in the tires that can be gained no other way. truly knowing when and how they will slide. Unless you are getting free tires and a new one is on the bike every time you ride, that is of coarse the preferred method. Will

Yes, that's what I learned first. I did that at Loudon the first year of the new track in one and two. Sort of a controlled high side. Will

That was good stuff, but the Honda Valkery commercial with Duhamel broad sliding was way cool.

I noticed myself doing this too, but I may have been doing it for a different reason. Seems like every time I did it I had been doing a floater down the hill and missed my brake marker, having too much fun trying to figure out how to stay pinned and not have it pop up going over the hill. Never did though. Will

Yes. But not like you would think. I have been doing this at the streets in the last series of corners, 11-13. They are a series of decreasing speed turns and what I have found to be working there is very busy and dangerous to try so please take notice ( don't try this at home, I am a trained professional). As I get to the end of end of eleven and am setting up my body to turn from the right to the left I grab the front brake and it CSs the bike up from full lean. I really don't have to steer it, but it is only enough to stand the bike up, and slow it down for the next turn. Then I let off the brake and turn into the left, doing the same to get it up for 13. Sometimes coming out 11 I will spin the rear just before grabbing the front brake and put it a couple inches out of track and shut the throttle as I grab the brake. Now that will snap the bike up in a hurry, and I didn't spend any attention on turning the bars. This is very busy, and takes a lot of concentration. I will only use it when I need to catch up or trying to get a gap, I can't yet do it every lap. Will

I am not a trial braker and have a biased opinion towards quick turn for sure but I haven't seen the pro's or con's so I will give mine. Quick turn: Pro's making the turn as big an ark as possible ( giving the most potential turn speed. having good turn speed, good exit speed. picking a turn point close to the turn gives you a very deep brake point. You can get on the gas very soon and get weight off the front allowing a higher entry speed. The bike is stable sooner giving the rider more confidence in the turn once you have certainty you can make the bike turn when you want, the ability to run any line into the turn. Making passing easier than being confined by how much you can turn with the brake on. Con's It's scary to learn Trail Braking Pro's Stuffing it under someone on the turn entry (lowlineing) Slowing down in the turn? Con's turning slow because the brake is on. having to stay tight on the bars well into the turn, locking the steering up with your arms and making the bike unstable. lessening the ark in the turn and slowing your mid turn and exit speed. increasing the risk of crashing, overloading the front and it locking. you loose the gyro and very few can recover from this. Will

Oh Yes there is. The two forces you are trying to manage against each other are weight and friction. If you put more weight on the front tire you are closer to or past the balance of them. More weight is less traction. Will

Hi Scott That's good stuff. I have thought that 45* would be a G and you have seemed to confirm this. But that would only be true if the rider was sitting straight up on the bike. How can the rider hanging off be accounted for? One thing I see is alot of folks saying the Pro's trail brake deep into a corner, what proof? thier finger on the lever? I haven't seen one team with a pressure tranducer on the front brake. I would though, it would be a great help in understanding this subject. Will

You made some good points but what RPM the engine is at and how the FI or carbs work has a huge effect on how the lash is taken up. The higher RPM puts the engine into a different range in the FI or carb circuits that make a smoth roll on more attainable. The smother the tip in is the earlier you can start the roll on to take up the lash. Will

Will, So, what is the deal with the jerk in the drive train? Is this all fuel related or is there something else going on causing the slap? In my Honda, it is really, really bad. At lower idle speeds, if I tip the bike in to full lean angle and then try to smoothly get on the gas, I get this big jerk - and it is realy unsettling. After I started raising my idle, the jerk went away and now I feel much more confidant getting on the gas without the fear of busting the rear tire loose at full lean. Steve Hi Steve Im guessing you don't have a power commander and haven't remapped your bikes. It's the same deal as with carbs, to meat EPA they must set them up so lean they will barely run. You need to go to a good dyno man who can fatten the bottom of the mapping up and then it will smooth out. By raising the idle you are putting the bike into a different spot in the mapping, one were it runs better apparently. Will

The SVs are way off for all but putting around. You would feel the difference immediately with emulators and a reworked shock. Not to mention resprung for your weight.

we used to Supertwin schools that were harley only, but that isn't the case now. We have all sorts of bikes come from goldwings and Valkeries to baggers and cruisers of all makes. We just had a gy at Laguna on a big twin that was FAST, had to be over 100 horse and he wasn't shy about using it. A site to behold indeed.

Hi Steve What happened to me was I was used to the engine braking and in it's sudden absents I was going faster than I wanted to. Keep in mind I was racing a ZX9 and while it slowed down smartly there wasn't an overabundance of stopping power ( like the 636 has) and I didn't give myself an adjustment session, I just went out and flew into the corner as fast as before and couldn't use more brake because I was already using it all. Will

The main reason I raise it up so when the rear comes up the wheel doesn't slow down and start chattering. There are other benefits as well like less engine braking, but the best is that the tip in is way better. Tip in is a carburetor term that is from idle transitioning into and through the pilot circuit. While this isn?t totally applicable to FI it does start your roll on from a higher flow and is smother. This condition does help with blipping for down shifts too. Will

King Kenny Roberts. because he changed the way we ride and smoked everyone for years. I will never forget standing out side of turn 11 (9 then) at laguna and seeing Baldwin come in with Roberts behind. As Baldwin hit the brakes Roberts passed him on the rear wheel! Will

sorry dude, that is safe for all time as it was the 500 and 250 in the same year. Rossi has already unseated Spencer as the youngest to wear the crown in both 250 and 500, has more world titles and will pass Dohan soon and be the all time best. Will

that is what I think it means too. Will

I love this thread already, but we still don't have a definition of trail braking? What is it? is it letting off slowly as you turn or using the brakes wile leaned over? Is it just the front? does backing it in count? Will

I didn't say anything about what others could or couldn't do just what I do and don't. I posed a couple of questions about turn entry that haven't been answered though. I don't now nor did I doubt your ability or anyone else's. I don't base what I think works or doesn't on a persons ability but it is nice when you can get someone to try something and then be able to honestly evaluate how it worked. I never said "my method is THE fast one". I do not pretend to the man only one who can ride with some degree of proficiency. You think all the GP guys ride the same, I don't. Rossi, McCoy, Bayliss, Biaggi. These four guys ride totally different. I don't believe they all subscribe to any one technique and do it the same. I would ask you the original question once more, is it possible to go fast enough into a turn to slide the front? If you can answer that with yes then the only conclusion you can come to is if you have traction left to brake your going too slow. Will

Depending on the classes you run, look at other forks you can use. I've sold several sets of F4 forks to guys using them on SV's. I don't know what all is involved in the conversion, but obviously it's easy/common enough for more than one person to buy forks from me to do this. Race tech emulators are the way to go. you can tune the rebound by the oil weight and the compression with the preload on the valve. You don't even have to change the fork seals to install them. just remove the bolt on the bottom of the fork, then the cap and the spring and damping rod come out the top.

Rossi is the MAN and when he repeats this year all will bow to the MASTER of out sport. Will

OK Dude ease up for a minuet. I say these things based on my riding and observations I make are of what I think is the limit of turn speed which may be justified as correct by my race results in WSMC and CCS. For the sake of discussion I am not taking into account riding errors, but now that you mention it the errors you stated would get you to the ground faster with trail braking than without it. Now to the real deal. What is trail braking ... Is it letting off the brakes slowly or letting off slowly after you start turning... If it either one of those don...t do now and never have. I turn the bike very quickly. And at the moment I release the brakes. So all my braking is done before I start to turn. There are always turns were you must brake wile leaned over but my style remains the same I get the braking done and then turn. Make no mistake I can use the brakes at full lean and had to this last weekend, I instantly bottomed the forks and started the front hopping and clanking, Then I realized the only way out was to run off and l let go of the brakes and stood it up off into the dirt missing the leader by inches. Oh he was trail braking and stood a lapper up into me so I was way deeper than normal, when I got around him I found the leader still hadn...t turned and I almost T-boned him. I will use any tool I think is effective to lower my lap times but this one as I understand it isn...t one of them, I have heard many times that I leave the inside open and will be passed by the ...fast guys.... I hear them come up but by the time I turn silence, I am on the gas and they are still trying to slow down. Will Eikenberry WSMC # 363 CCS # 63

I always ask a couple questions when peaple tell me about the benifits of trial brakeing. Can you go fast enough in a turn to slide the front tire? most will answer yes. If you can slide the front with speed how much traction is left for brakeing? None if you have traction to be using the brakes then you have already slowed too much. it is posible to let go of the brakes and turn without unloading the front, you must turn very quick 1 or 2 tenths and do it just as you release the brake. it takes alot of practice to get the timming down, but once you get it tucking the front all but disapears as a possible problem. Will

Hi Bob My pit is always open. You can ask me and if I don't know I will find someone who does for you. Will