Crashing: What Causes Track Day Crashes?

[Cobie Fair]

After reading ATOTW II, I came up with a LAUNDRY list of things I did wrong on that particular turn alone. My entry speed (for my ability) was too fast for that corner, I missed my turn-in RP, I wasn't able to turn (or flick) the bike quick enough, my body was not positioned properly prior to the turn, and I don't recall looking through the turn (probably because I screwed up everything else so badly, there was no point - ha ha!).

 

Dan

 

Dan--good of you to figure those things out.

[Cobie Fair]

OK--regarding warming tires up. Hard accel and hard braking can help, but having the bike workig the tire in the turn is what I understand is the key. Some tracks, like Pocono East, most of the turns are in one direction. Pocono has only 2 short left hand turns. On cooler/cold days, I am more cautious on the right side, and in fact on a cold day at Pocono don't really think the right hand side gets properly warmed up. We deal with this also training riders on the slide bike.

 

Both sides of the tire have to be warmed, and this is done by working the tire (gradiently going faster) in the turns. We have had some that think "warm your tires, go easy for 2 laps" means go SLOW for 2 laps, then drop the hammer. Starting slow, then gradiently going faster, will warm the tires. Some tires take more to warm up that others.

 

On the slide bike, we get a rider to bring the bike's speed up gradienlty on one side. When he/she changes to slide it in the other direction, have to start slowly, and bring the speed up (get some heat in that side of the tire) first.

[BLSJDS]

Thanks Cobie! I plan to re-read that book several times.

 

You are right on re: Pocono East - I could clearly see more aggressive wear on the left side of my tires. Air temp when we started in the morning was well below 50 degrees F. I have the original tires on my '03 954 and although they passed tech inspection, I definitely felt them slide around a bit for the first 3 or 4 laps (was running 26 psi F and R). Needless to say, a new set of tires will be mounted this winter!

[ukilme]

Well, I finially figure how to convert a mov into avi and edit a video of my crash. It is a tank mount camera and natural is limited as you can see where I am looking or such.

 

Any critique is welcomed.

 

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/uki...=Movie_0001.flv

[Cobie Fair]

Well, I finially figure how to convert a mov into avi and edit a video of my crash. It is a tank mount camera and natural is limited as you can see where I am looking or such.

 

Any critique is welcomed.

 

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/uki...=Movie_0001.flv

 

Uklime: where did this happen? Which track? If at a school, what level were you taking and have you taken?

 

Best,

CF

[ukilme]

Well, I finially figure how to convert a mov into avi and edit a video of my crash. It is a tank mount camera and natural is limited as you can see where I am looking or such.

 

Any critique is welcomed.

 

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/uki...=Movie_0001.flv

 

Uklime: where did this happen? Which track? If at a school, what level were you taking and have you taken?

 

Best,

CF

 

 

It is at the Calabogie Motorsport Park here in Ontario Canada. I did complete Phase 1 of FAST racing school up here in Eastern Canada, the year before and have plans to attend some more schooling this spring.

This video is the fourth track day on this track and it is 3 session of the day before lunch. My first track day this year was a little scary with the organization I went with ( lack of organization). However, the rest of my track days were with Team promotion and my first day with them, the coaches spent the morning sessions showing me the lines on the track. Two thumbs to them for that.

 

The corner itself in a left hand decreasing radius going downhill. The apex is blind. Here is a discription from the web site: A fast approach into a long, sweeping, left handed entry (63º, 100m radius) is followed by a drastically tightening apex sector (47º, 62 m) and an even tighter final radius (109º, 23m). They call the corner temptation.

 

Andre

[Cobie Fair]

It is at the Calabogie Motorsport Park here in Ontario Canada. I did complete Phase 1 of FAST racing school up here in Eastern Canada, the year before and have plans to attend some more schooling this spring.

This video is the fourth track day on this track and it is 3 session of the day before lunch. My first track day this year was a little scary with the organization I went with ( lack of organization). However, the rest of my track days were with Team promotion and my first day with them, the coaches spent the morning sessions showing me the lines on the track. Two thumbs to them for that.

 

The corner itself in a left hand decreasing radius going downhill. The apex is blind. Here is a discription from the web site: A fast approach into a long, sweeping, left handed entry (63º, 100m radius) is followed by a drastically tightening apex sector (47º, 62 m) and an even tighter final radius (109º, 23m). They call the corner temptation.

 

Andre

 

Hi Andre,

 

Got it. To recap briefly, you ran wide, and looks like you rode it off the tires. The bike went down before it went off the track.

 

There is a lot of technique that goes into riding well, and we won't be able to cover the whole gamut here. Many on this forum have read Keith's 3rd book, Twist of the Wrist 2. Have you by chance? Having a look at Chapter 23, the Two Step, might shed some light on what happned (pg 98).

 

There are other things that could be the major contributing factor, but without talking with you, can't just give a blanket statement/critique, and really have it be accurate.

 

Best,

CF

[littlefield]

I lowsided coming out of turn 4 at Barber. Think that's the right number, the tight hairpin. I was well through the corner, started to give it some gas and next thing I know I'm sliding along the asphalt. Not a tire problem or anything just overcame the traction on the rear tire while still leaned well over and away it went. The bike and I ended up in the grass on the far side of the gravel trap which reinforces the notion that the problem was coming out of the turn, not going into it.

[Cobie Fair]

I lowsided coming out of turn 4 at Barber. Think that's the right number, the tight hairpin. I was well through the corner, started to give it some gas and next thing I know I'm sliding along the asphalt. Not a tire problem or anything just overcame the traction on the rear tire while still leaned well over and away it went. The bike and I ended up in the grass on the far side of the gravel trap which reinforces the notion that the problem was coming out of the turn, not going into it.

 

OK, so in this case, were you adding lean angle at the same time as you were coming into the throttle? Even just a little bit?

 

CF

[ukilme]

It is at the Calabogie Motorsport Park here in Ontario Canada. I did complete Phase 1 of FAST racing school up here in Eastern Canada, the year before and have plans to attend some more schooling this spring.

This video is the fourth track day on this track and it is 3 session of the day before lunch. My first track day this year was a little scary with the organization I went with ( lack of organization). However, the rest of my track days were with Team promotion and my first day with them, the coaches spent the morning sessions showing me the lines on the track. Two thumbs to them for that.

 

The corner itself in a left hand decreasing radius going downhill. The apex is blind. Here is a discription from the web site: A fast approach into a long, sweeping, left handed entry (63º, 100m radius) is followed by a drastically tightening apex sector (47º, 62 m) and an even tighter final radius (109º, 23m). They call the corner temptation.

 

Andre

 

Hi Andre,

 

Got it. To recap briefly, you ran wide, and looks like you rode it off the tires. The bike went down before it went off the track.

 

There is a lot of technique that goes into riding well, and we won't be able to cover the whole gamut here. Many on this forum have read Keith's 3rd book, Twist of the Wrist 2. Have you by chance? Having a look at Chapter 23, the Two Step, might shed some light on what happned (pg 98).

 

There are other things that could be the major contributing factor, but without talking with you, can't just give a blanket statement/critique, and really have it be accurate.

 

Best,

CF

 

Thanks for looking at the video. And suggesting the reading. I will pull that book out of my closet.

[littlefield]

I lowsided coming out of turn 4 at Barber. Think that's the right number, the tight hairpin. I was well through the corner, started to give it some gas and next thing I know I'm sliding along the asphalt. Not a tire problem or anything just overcame the traction on the rear tire while still leaned well over and away it went. The bike and I ended up in the grass on the far side of the gravel trap which reinforces the notion that the problem was coming out of the turn, not going into it.

 

OK, so in this case, were you adding lean angle at the same time as you were coming into the throttle? Even just a little bit?

 

CF

 

It's quite possible. I definitely wasn't standing the bike up.

[Cobie Fair]

It's quite possible. I definitely wasn't standing the bike up.

 

This is something we watch and work on quite a bit. I even had a former coach contact me the other day, and he'd had a problem, we talked it over, sounded like he was doing the same thing (he was going really well up to that point too).

 

CF