Quick Turn Question

[Hotfoot]

I realized recently that I have an uncertainty on quick turns, hopefully someone help me understand this better.

 

I noticed in some turns (for example, Turn 4 at Streets of Willow, or Turn 9 at CA Speedway) many riders will approach the turn on a bending line to get to their turn point, then turn it more when they actually reach the turn point. I am comfortable quick-turning the bike when it is stood straight up, but a little unsure about quick turning it if I am already leaned over.

 

So, I guess my question is this: if you are already leaned over some, like when you are entering a long decreasing radius turn, is there a limitation on how fast you can then quick turn the bike? Can you quick turn as aggressively when you are leaned over, say, 1/3 of full lean, as you can when you are fully upright? I am assuming, of course, that traction is good and you are off the brakes.

 

I think I am a little confused on this concept because I know a "mid-corner steering correction" is a bad thing, and this seems like a variation of that.

[harnois]

Look at this thread here especially starting with Past 13 and 14.

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=1672

It seems to hit on a lot of the same kindof thing as this post. Like for example bullet's mention of Attack Angle.

 

Also in that thread, you'll learn some new words.

 

I've noticed during motorcycle track days, racing video games, go-kart racing, and rc car racing.... in every case I can think of examples where the standard straight approach then quick flick technique just doesn't work out to be fastest. Sometimes it just seems better for various reasons to move toward the inside of the turn during braking and turn in the rest of the way later. An example is VIR North Course Turn 7. It has a dip right in the middle so you can scream up the inside and then just use the extra traction from the dip to turn the bike later (this happens kind naturally anyway). And based on the way the superbike school puts the yellow X turn points down in that turn, and my observation of the coaches going through that turn the same way, I'm certain it's not just me.

 

Sometimes there's a balance to be struck between what line allows you to maintain the most momentum through the turn, vs what line is just simply shorter. Sometimes the shorter more elliptical line does work, but it's an exception that applies generally to a very small percentage of turns in my experience.

 

As for the quick turning I don't see why you can't do it just as aggressively if already partly leaned over. Obviously ya wouldn't have to push on the bars as long or hard as usual, since you don't have to go as far. Generally I find that this does not require the same level of conscious hard pressure on the bars the way it does to flick from full left to full right or upright to full right or left. But it still does require a very conscious turn-in point.