Witsbusa Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I was hoping to get some advice regarding the decision I'm trying to make right now on so I can sign up for the school in August at Thunderbolt. I have been street riding for about 17 years, and am finally going to start doing track days. In addition to the track days I'll participate in, I am extremely excited about getting involved with the California Superbike School programs. The advice I'm hoping to get, though, is on whether it is smarter and more cost efficient to do a two day course at $2250 or multiple single day events.. if I do them on my own bike, I can get five single day events for the same money. Is the lower student to teacher ratio and the extras at the two day event lead to much greater improvement? Thanks! Any advice one way or the other is much appreciated. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shwejw Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hi Ben, I am in exactly the same boat. I joined this CSS forum ~2 wks ago (see my Hello from Oregon post in the Intro forum) and gained a ton of knowledge just by doing searches and reading almost 100 posts/threads. I actually called the office Tues this week to sign up for the 2-day camp at Willow in April, but they were already full as was my second choice of a 2-day in Las Vegas. Now I am contemplating doing two, 1day sessions back-to-back which would be a bit cheaper, but it would not include the off-track bike training (lean-bike, no-BS bike etc...), 1:3 coach to student ratio versus 1:2, and 4 less track sessions (7 per day for the 2-day camp vs. 5 per day in the 1-day camp). I am comparing "total cost" as I will need to travel (airfare, car rental, and lodging), will use their bike/equipment, and time away from work/fam (esp. if I ended up doing separate 1-day sessions not two back-2-back). This comes out, for me, to be about a total cost difference of ~$700 between the 2-day camp vs. 2-1day sessions B2B scenarios. So...my rationale is this---a track day locally would be about $175 a day thru the local club/dealer sponsored track days, and with much less focused instruction and coaching than CSS to consider. I would guesstimate that the 4 extra sessions and access to the other off-track bikes would be worth at least 2-3 track days locally, which kinda washes the cost difference, at which point I think I would lean towards doing a 2-day camp. So now I am checking to see if the 2-day at Willow in June works for my schedule. Also do a search regarding some of the other factors of single day sessions vs. 2-day camps such as: physical demands of back to back sessions can be tiring, mental ability to absorp all the info AND practice them, being more relaxed knowing you have 2 days vs. just 1 day to "get everything in", etc... Hope this helps, woudl love to know what others think as well (Cobie, Carey?) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I was hoping to get some advice regarding the decision I'm trying to make right now on so I can sign up for the school in August at Thunderbolt. I have been street riding for about 17 years, and am finally going to start doing track days. In addition to the track days I'll participate in, I am extremely excited about getting involved with the California Superbike School programs. The advice I'm hoping to get, though, is on whether it is smarter and more cost efficient to do a two day course at $2250 or multiple single day events.. if I do them on my own bike, I can get five single day events for the same money. Is the lower student to teacher ratio and the extras at the two day event lead to much greater improvement? Thanks! Any advice one way or the other is much appreciated. Ben Ben; Your question has been asked on the Forum a number of times and the reason why it does [IMHO] is that there is no single answer. If there was it would probably be: "It depends..." It depends on the student; their level of proficiency in riding, their ability to process and integrate information, their understanding of Keith Code's teachings (from the Two Twist of the Wrist books and Twist DVD) and their physical fitness to name a few factors that shape the answer. Now if you toss into the equation your statement "I ...am finally going to start doing track days", you add another dynamic that could trump all of the above. [as an aside If you have not been on the track yet going to the Superbike School is a great way to introduce yourself this fantastic sport so the challange here is which format should you choose]. The issue I had the first few times I went to the School was I had never ridden a bike that intensely for that amount of time and it drained my tank before the day was over... I was exhausted. With more track experience I was able to sustain the pace and absorb more information so I didn't do my first two day camp until Levels III & IV...but that's just me. The School has three groups of riders (White, Yellow & Green) and they have five complete rotations each day. The cycle at Levels I & II is to start with classroom seminars, then onto the track followed by a debrief after each track session. After your debrief you have some time to recuperate and absorb what you just did before you repeat the cycle all over again. At the School's Two-Day Camp, there are only two groups so there are more rotations (at least six) and the sessions are longer so you will be investing some real energy both on the track and in the classroom. With a student/coach ratio of 2 to 1 (v. 3 to 1 at the regular School) you will be getting that much more feedback so the issue of your physical and mental conditioning has to be a big component of your decision matrix. You will be provided more at the Two-Day Camp but only you can determine if you are in a position to take full advantage of it as a first time track rider. Ben; this is just one guys opinion; I've done both formats many times but I figured if I shared my perspective it might help you make your decision and oh by the way, Thunderbolt ROCKS! Rainman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witsbusa Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Thanks a lot Kevin. I will have at least five track days in before the two day school in August. I'm also going to be working hard on conditioning up to that time knowing it will be a very high intensity experience. I actually submitted my registration for the two day course, but your insight is very helpful and will enhance my motivation to get my mind and body prepared for the experience. Thanks a lot again to both of you for your thoughts. Hopefully I signed up in time to get a spot! Ben I was hoping to get some advice regarding the decision I'm trying to make right now on so I can sign up for the school in August at Thunderbolt. I have been street riding for about 17 years, and am finally going to start doing track days. In addition to the track days I'll participate in, I am extremely excited about getting involved with the California Superbike School programs. The advice I'm hoping to get, though, is on whether it is smarter and more cost efficient to do a two day course at $2250 or multiple single day events.. if I do them on my own bike, I can get five single day events for the same money. Is the lower student to teacher ratio and the extras at the two day event lead to much greater improvement? Thanks! Any advice one way or the other is much appreciated. Ben Ben; Your question has been asked on the Forum a number of times and the reason why it does [IMHO] is that there is no single answer. If there was it would probably be: "It depends..." It depends on the student; their level of proficiency in riding, their ability to process and integrate information, their understanding of Keith Code's teachings (from the Two Twist of the Wrist books and Twist DVD) and their physical fitness to name a few factors that shape the answer. Now if you toss into the equation your statement "I ...am finally going to start doing track days", you add another dynamic that could trump all of the above. [as an aside If you have not been on the track yet going to the Superbike School is a great way to introduce yourself this fantastic sport so the challange here is which format should you choose]. The issue I had the first few times I went to the School was I had never ridden a bike that intensely for that amount of time and it drained my tank before the day was over... I was exhausted. With more track experience I was able to sustain the pace and absorb more information so I didn't do my first two day camp until Levels III & IV...but that's just me. The School has three groups of riders (White, Yellow & Green) and they have five complete rotations each day. The cycle at Levels I & II is to start with classroom seminars, then onto the track followed by a debrief after each track session. After your debrief you have some time to recuperate and absorb what you just did before you repeat the cycle all over again. At the School's Two-Day Camp, there are only two groups so there are more rotations (at least six) and the sessions are longer so you will be investing some real energy both on the track and in the classroom. With a student/coach ratio of 2 to 1 (v. 3 to 1 at the regular School) you will be getting that much more feedback so the issue of your physical and mental conditioning has to be a big component of your decision matrix. You will be provided more at the Two-Day Camp but only you can determine if you are in a position to take full advantage of it as a first time track rider. Ben; this is just one guys opinion; I've done both formats many times but I figured if I shared my perspective it might help you make your decision and oh by the way, Thunderbolt ROCKS! Rainman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradvanhorn Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Kevin summarized the options nicely I think. I'll pile on the comment about being drained. Last year I did a 2-day camp at Barber (Alabama) in June, at the end of day one I was beat, and on day two I had heat exhaustion by lunch time. This happening to (at the time) a very fit Marine was completely unexpected. I was definitely caught off guard at how hard I was working, and even though I thought I was drinking lots of water and taking in some food and electrolytes, I just didn't get enough. Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate... You're going to love the 2-day camp though. It's great fun and a fantastic learning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 The 2-day camp, unless you have the cash to spend, I'd say is more an experience. If you want the treatment, do at least one 2-day course. I'm glad I did. From here on out, though, I'm going with the thought of how many single days you for the price of a 2-day I can get. That's a lot of training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witsbusa Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Thanks for the advice guys.. I decided for my first time out with the school, I am going to do the two day. Like you said Jason, after that I'll probably just do multiple one days on my own track bike. I can't freaking wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klavdy Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 For me, it went like this: One day (L1)course to see if you like it enough to go onwards. L2&3 as a Camp. L4 as a one dayer The two day camps are enormous fun, the staff really dig them too (C'mon, you know you do) and it's a far more, dare I say, intimate experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 The question has been answered, but one comment: one of the biggest factors in students being drained is this--not knowing enough, and being religious about hydration. I don't use that word lightly (religious). Very few people in extreme conditions drink enough water. One doctor told me in extreme conditions a person can sweat a GALLON in an hour. Another factor is knowing what electrolytes are, and how to take them. This has been covered more elsewhere on the forum, let me know if any questions about it (it's an area we have had to do a lot of research as the coaches have to ride 2 or 3 times what students ride--and I'm a long ways from a fit Marine). CF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have chosen to do a 2-day camp in June at barber this year and I am very excited. Thanks for the info you gave Ben as it has helpped me as well. I will run some searches on the hydration you talked about Cobie and see where I can get ahead of the game. I work in a hot enviornment so maybe that will help me a little because I already drink a lot of water. If there is anything else you guys can give as information to help 2 newbies out it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klavdy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have chosen to do a 2-day camp in June at barber this year and I am very excited. Thanks for the info you gave Ben as it has helpped me as well. I will run some searches on the hydration you talked about Cobie and see where I can get ahead of the game. I work in a hot enviornment so maybe that will help me a little because I already drink a lot of water. If there is anything else you guys can give as information to help 2 newbies out it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Have FUN! Drink water. I work in tropical countries, water is the best drink. Eat a banana in the morning and one at around lunchtime. Drink water with it, not sodas. Have at least four waters to one "Sportsdrink" Beware the afternoon burn out. To ask questions of your Riding Coach and other instructors, first you must listen. You're paying for their expertise, listen to what they have to say, then ask questions. The Classrooms rely on interaction with the Students, don't be afraid to speak up if you are not clear on anything. Don't hold back from asking questions , even if you think it might make you look stupid. On track, Don't worry about bikes behind you. Don't worry about what you may think the other Students are thinking about your "Style", leave that job to your Coach, he knows,he'll tell you. We're all squids at Superbike School. Shifting up through the gears on a BMW will make you smile. You'll leave after two days thrilled with being able to do something that you could not do before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witsbusa Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Thanks for taking the time to respond on here guys.. I'm getting more psyched by the day! Just a little disappointed I have to wait until August! I have chosen to do a 2-day camp in June at barber this year and I am very excited. Thanks for the info you gave Ben as it has helpped me as well. I will run some searches on the hydration you talked about Cobie and see where I can get ahead of the game. I work in a hot enviornment so maybe that will help me a little because I already drink a lot of water. If there is anything else you guys can give as information to help 2 newbies out it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Have FUN! Drink water. I work in tropical countries, water is the best drink. Eat a banana in the morning and one at around lunchtime. Drink water with it, not sodas. Have at least four waters to one "Sportsdrink" Beware the afternoon burn out. To ask questions of your Riding Coach and other instructors, first you must listen. You're paying for their expertise, listen to what they have to say, then ask questions. The Classrooms rely on interaction with the Students, don't be afraid to speak up if you are not clear on anything. Don't hold back from asking questions , even if you think it might make you look stupid. On track, Don't worry about bikes behind you. Don't worry about what you may think the other Students are thinking about your "Style", leave that job to your Coach, he knows,he'll tell you. We're all squids at Superbike School. Shifting up through the gears on a BMW will make you smile. You'll leave after two days thrilled with being able to do something that you could not do before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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