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D211 Gp, Uk Vs France - Questions For Steve And The Guys.


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Dear Steve,

 

I race in the 600cc National championship in Dubai - UAE, I would consider my self with the front runners, 1 sec max off the fastest track record here.

We have been racing on Dunlops D211 Gps as the controlled tire, 190 rear for the 600s. While last year we were on the UK made 6838 compound front and back, which worked great, good grip and we could do

15min warm up, 20min qualifying and 2 x 20min races. Plus a 4x20 min track day (they wouldnt be that grippy on the track day though!)

 

This season, Dunlop has switched to 2 compounds, UK made 6854 rear with a 6838 front / or the French D211 GPR front and rear. (which are much cheaper)

After the 1st round, everyone experienced very hard tear on the 6854 rear, mind you it was very hot (about 36 dec C air temp), I have tried significant suspension changes to try and help the wear which it did but not too significant. Dunlop UAE, mentioned that we had the same issues with the 6838 last year as well, but after a couple of rounds it was brilliant, couldve been the climate temp getting cooler in the season (which is the case here in the UAE plus the 1st round is on a short, twisty and tight track with a lot of braking)

 

I opted for the French ones for round 2, and while surely the wear was very good, and Dunlop says it has more longevity, I have to say the grip level is not the same as the UK 6854 ones and not even near the 6838 UK.

My questions are:

 

- How much difference in lap times would the UK provide on the French? (both N-tech, and same pressure, 23 -24 hot) anything more than 0,5 sec would be a bid deal in our class!

- What is the actual compound for 6838 vs 6854? I have been told its medium hard - endurance.

- I was told the french has longer longevity, which I agree but is there an indication on the compound for the GPR?

- Can I use a 6838 UK front and a French rear?

- Does having more pressure in the front affects chattering while entering corners and braking or is it less pressure?

 

Thanks a lot for your help.

Cheers,

Mahmoud

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- How much difference in lap times would the UK provide on the French? (both N-tech, and same pressure, 23 -24 hot) anything more than 0,5 sec would be a bid deal in our class!

 

 

Mahmoud,

 

I am going to take these one at a time. so stick with me on this.

 

Difference UK and French. In the past the UK tires were better than the French ones. The French ones were not bad, its just the UK had an edge (when you are speaking about lap times that are right on the track record). But things are changing in every factory, The French may have made a positive performance jump recently, much like the USA factory has made.

 

Honestly YOU will be the one that determines which is better for you at any given track. Considering it is a control tire, then everyone has available to them the same tires. You should try both and you make the choice.

 

IF a particular compound tears at a certain track under a certain weather condition, the opted fro the other choice.

 

Are you able to get enough time to get some laps on all the compound options before the race?

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- How much difference in lap times would the UK provide on the French? (both N-tech, and same pressure, 23 -24 hot) anything more than 0,5 sec would be a bid deal in our class!

 

 

Mahmoud,

 

I am going to take these one at a time. so stick with me on this.

 

Difference UK and French. In the past the UK tires were better than the French ones. The French ones were not bad, its just the UK had an edge (when you are speaking about lap times that are right on the track record). But things are changing in every factory, The French may have made a positive performance jump recently, much like the USA factory has made.

 

Honestly YOU will be the one that determines which is better for you at any given track. Considering it is a control tire, then everyone has available to them the same tires. You should try both and you make the choice.

 

IF a particular compound tears at a certain track under a certain weather condition, the opted fro the other choice.

 

Are you able to get enough time to get some laps on all the compound options before the race?

 

Hey Steve,

 

Thanks for the clarification, honestly the French ones are much better than last year's French (those were horrible, very good grip but one 25min race and they are shredded!) Dunlop UAE said that this year they are better, which is true. The difference is there's not much side grip as the UK ones and the feed back is not as accurate (but thats just me and my style i guess, I just dont get too much feeling from them like the UK ones, where you really can tell what the tire is doing).

I guess its down to the price as well, as they are much cheaper than the UK ones, I dont get much time to try both on the same weekend as its too expensive (Dont have a title sponsor this year :( ) however I try to do so on track days.

I'm racing this weekend (Friday & Sat here), and I will opt for the UK rear and see what happens. (I will start with 33, 23 off the warmer, do you think we can get the front down a couple of psi as we tend to really push the front on this track and need the grip)

 

When you have the time, it will be great if you can shed some light on my previous querries.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Best,

Mahmoud

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  • 4 weeks later...

- How much difference in lap times would the UK provide on the French? (both N-tech, and same pressure, 23 -24 hot) anything more than 0,5 sec would be a bid deal in our class!

 

 

Mahmoud,

 

I am going to take these one at a time. so stick with me on this.

 

Difference UK and French. In the past the UK tires were better than the French ones. The French ones were not bad, its just the UK had an edge (when you are speaking about lap times that are right on the track record). But things are changing in every factory, The French may have made a positive performance jump recently, much like the USA factory has made.

 

Honestly YOU will be the one that determines which is better for you at any given track. Considering it is a control tire, then everyone has available to them the same tires. You should try both and you make the choice.

 

IF a particular compound tears at a certain track under a certain weather condition, the opted fro the other choice.

 

Are you able to get enough time to get some laps on all the compound options before the race?

 

Hey Steve,

 

Thanks for the clarification, honestly the French ones are much better than last year's French (those were horrible, very good grip but one 25min race and they are shredded!) Dunlop UAE said that this year they are better, which is true. The difference is there's not much side grip as the UK ones and the feed back is not as accurate (but thats just me and my style i guess, I just dont get too much feeling from them like the UK ones, where you really can tell what the tire is doing).

I guess its down to the price as well, as they are much cheaper than the UK ones, I dont get much time to try both on the same weekend as its too expensive (Dont have a title sponsor this year :( ) however I try to do so on track days.

I'm racing this weekend (Friday & Sat here), and I will opt for the UK rear and see what happens. (I will start with 33, 23 off the warmer, do you think we can get the front down a couple of psi as we tend to really push the front on this track and need the grip)

 

When you have the time, it will be great if you can shed some light on my previous querries.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Best,

Mahmoud

 

I would not recommend going lower on the front PSI. This is a common mistake, riders thinking in thier head they want more front grip and then lowering the PSI. If this were true, then why not another 2 psi, then another 2 psi, then another? We give the recommendation because its what works. We don't not give a higher PSI recommendation, only to have riders change it to a lower setting. Changing from that recommendation is not better in fact, but it is better in that it makes the rider feel as if things are better (when in fact they are not).

 

Lower PSI will only change the handling and stability of the tire. In this case the front will not steer as fast and be as firmly footed.

 

Don't go changing, unless there is a real issue. Don't change to make yourself "Feel" better when there is no real evidence there is a problem.

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I would not recommend going lower on the front PSI. This is a common mistake, riders thinking in thier head they want more front grip and then lowering the PSI. If this were true, then why not another 2 psi, then another 2 psi, then another? We give the recommendation because its what works. We don't not give a higher PSI recommendation, only to have riders change it to a lower setting. Changing from that recommendation is not better in fact, but it is better in that it makes the rider feel as if things are better (when in fact they are not).

 

Lower PSI will only change the handling and stability of the tire. In this case the front will not steer as fast and be as firmly footed.

 

Don't go changing unless there is a real issue. Don't change to make yourself "Feel" better when here is no real evidence there is a problem.

 

...from the tire. Could be the nut loose behind the handlebars :).

 

CF

 

(it's the holidays, I get to mess with you guys a bit :)).

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