faffi Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 My brother, riding hard enough to wear out his (rather thin at 10 mm) knee puck in just 9 laps around Brno, braking hard enough to lift the rear wheel going into most corners, set a time 27% slower than Max Biaggi. Transferred to Isle of Man, that would have meant an average speed in the 104-105 mph range. This shows my brother in action Now, compare his apparent speed with what you see on this video from the Isle of Man from 1961, when the road surfarce was much worse than it is today. With these bikes, featuring far less hp than my brother's RSV Mille, far worse tyres than the cut slick my brother used, far worse brakes and far worse chassis and suspension, yet these men still ran in the 102-103 mph range for their fastest laps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CDguIVOGhd4 Now, just looking at the two movies and comparing the lean and the acceleration alone makes it nigh on impossible to understand where these racers from the past made up their time. However, I do see it as proof positive that there are much more to fast lap times than dragging the knee! edit: Hmm, dunno why it won't show the second video as embedded media Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 From your brother's video from Lausitzring, I'd say that he's carrying too much lean too long. I did approx 2:05 laps when I was at Lausitzring in 2010, on my R6. I timed your brother at around 2:17 from the video. The lap record for Lausitzring (in the specific configuration) is 1:38 (Troy Bayliss, SBK). Keeping your kneeslider on the ground, grinding it to dust can be fun in the beginning, but then you realize that you don't need to do that - and kneepucks are expensive, if you go through 1-2 pair per trackday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Thanks for the input! Lausitzring was his first ever track day where he wasn't comfortable and he was way faster at Brno. He liked the faster corners of Brno far, far better than the chicanes of Lausitzring. He wore out the puck because the knee was jammed between the fairing and the road, according to himself. But I suspected a lack of quick-turning since I could see riders go past him at a good clip. Any other inputs? PS! Your 2:05 is also 27% behind the lap record, like my brother's 2:32 at Brno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventodue Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hi Eirik, Well, it's kinda mean to compare your brother to Hailwood et al ... . But, that said: It's all about corner speed, right?* And, looking at the video, that's what your bother lacks - on entry, mid-corner and exit . Lots of reasons why (soft braking, turn point too early, slow steering, poor throttle control, twisted body position, no pick-up …). But a couple of days at CSS would certainly have him moving in the right direction. Btw, that bike looks too powerful for that track. It's very rarely about horse power, as you know. I reckon Hotfoot on her 250 would nip round there way quicker than most of us ! Craig * And Mike in particular had a reputation for never slowing down . You can see that demonstrated in the IoM video - for which, thanks btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Thanks for the input! Lausitzring was his first ever track day where he wasn't comfortable and he was way faster at Brno. He liked the faster corners of Brno far, far better than the chicanes of Lausitzring. He wore out the puck because the knee was jammed between the fairing and the road, according to himself. But I suspected a lack of quick-turning since I could see riders go past him at a good clip. Any other inputs? PS! Your 2:05 is also 27% behind the lap record, like my brother's 2:32 at Brno. Hi Eirik, Don't get me wrong: If your brother can ride that quick in such a short time on tracks, he has a heck of a lot more natural ability than I have. Not liking the chicanes says to me that he need to work on the technical parts - everyone can gas it, right? I had a look at the Brno video (I've never been there, so I can only provide general comments), and I agree with Craig: Slow-turn, too much braking, too much lean angle too long time. His moves from side to side on the bike also seem a bit rough and slowish. /PS: Nothing like a bit of brotherly competition here, eh Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hi Eirik, Don't get me wrong: If your brother can ride that quick in such a short time on tracks, he has a heck of a lot more natural ability than I have. Not liking the chicanes says to me that he need to work on the technical parts - everyone can gas it, right? I had a look at the Brno video (I've never been there, so I can only provide general comments), and I agree with Craig: Slow-turn, too much braking, too much lean angle too long time. His moves from side to side on the bike also seem a bit rough and slowish. /PS: Nothing like a bit of brotherly competition here, eh Kai I have always thought I'd just go to a track and ride as fast as I could - like my brother, although our styles differ greatly - but watching him have totally altered my outlook on this. If I ever do venture on track, I will learn it properly, not do it like my brother have done. For instance, I'm pretty confident I lack the confidence to just jump on a new bike and use that kind of lean without lots of practice. Secondly, I think braking is the last thing I'd focus on because I'm already pretty good at it. At least compared to many other things I'd need to learn. I also like to think I use quick-turning respectably as long as we talk novice skill. But I would have to focus on getting the right lines, getting on the throttle early enough and getting the brain to accept the speeds possible. Also, riding position - getting out of that Hailwood style - would be very challenging for me. And personally I think all that can be better obtained by starting out with a trainer and also ride sans brakes in the beginning with a minimum of gearchanges. So instead of buying a track bike, rent a van and travel around Europe to ride it, I'd rather spend my money on an air ticket and bike rent plus school. Again, if I feel I need/want to do some track riding. I mean, although the speed my brother managed is good for a beginner, it is still a far way from what's possible. And personally I think it will be wiser to start slower and learn things properly step by step. A bit like powerlifting; what gives you the best results in 6 months rarely gives you the best results in 6 years. Sorry for another rant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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