rapid van cleef Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 OK, heres a few questions that id like to answers too........ I used to approach all hard braking areas by squeezing the tank with both legs, relaxing upper body, then off the brakes shift body and lean into the corner however I have found that its too much going on at corner entry so I have tried to modify my technique just before braking a move my arse off the seat to the inside of the corner, let my body slide forewards and bracing my body against the bars under braking with my arms( i fint it almost impossibe to do with just one leg), that being the outer leg of the corner we all see top racers hang their arse off to the side under braking then their upper body and leg leans into the corner as their but is already off the seat. Now the bike feels hard to turn in and im concerned about pushing on the bars to get the bike to turn as my upper body is resisitng the braking forces Do i need to use 1 leg to brace against the braking forces and just get over it? or can i afford to tuirn in when the front feels heavy and compressed? im finding it really difficult to get this combination of braking, moving butt off the seat, leaning body in and pushing on the bars all in the right order is hard..... what is the right order? logic would suggest to me slide arse off , lock on outisde knee, brake, blip, lean upper body, push on the inside bar, look at the exit, lean in, release the brake, apex and gas on. is that correct? dont tel me to go to a school to find the answer as its going to be at least a year til i get the rest of the levels done ive just had the forks serviced and suspnsion set up by a pro, brand new r10 tyres a 1000 cc sports bike, compelted level 1 in new zealand and done quite a few track days thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeflydive Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Below is my mental check list as I approach a corner: -Visually identify my turn point -Keep my body weight on my feet/pegs (not the seat)...arms are always relaxed and not weight bearing. -Shift my butt and upper body to the side early on. -Continue to lockon the tank w/ BOTH KNEES (to stop my body from sliding forward when braking...tank grip pads help). -Initiate braking to establish entry speed (arms remain relaxed). (both knees still locked on tank) -Complete braking (when desired entry speed is reached). -Establish the proper/desired body position (my body is already shifted over, so I just lower my upper body and flare my knee as needed). -Initiate the turn/lean at the desired turn point (limit body movement as to not upset the chasis/suspension when leaned over). -Once desired lean angle is established, roll on the throttle (smoothly and continuously throughout the remainder of the turn) to stabalize the bike and maintain speed. -Identify the desired apex. -Identify the desired exit point. Lather, rinse and repeat :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmith12 Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 The light bulb went off for me when I learned I can slide a cheek off (throttle still on) and still keep both legs/knees locked on the tank during hard braking. The trick is to find the "sweet spot" on the seat for you as the rider. Then as posted above, just relax your leg (knee out) and flow the upper body into the turn at the turn in point. Seems like your logical order of events is pretty close, just there is no defined point to crack the throttle open. From my point of view, after steering is complete. We know we also trail brake to finalize entry speed too but the sooner the better. Also you just mention focusing on the exit? Is there anything else that might be helpful to look at or for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid van cleef Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Relax your leg? the knee out one? If I relax my knee down leg it doesnt move much at all. As a former martial arts instructor I always had major ussies with flexibility in my hips. I find I have to push my knee outto get it as far out as most other people can do normally, then it touches down, and no its not so far out its like a sail! Ive seen people do that and it looks weird. anyhoo. Next track day is to try the combination as a drill at the end of each straight. thanks for the replies. Ill post what I fond out in around a month thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmith12 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yep, the knee out leg. Well... the flexibility issue is something to note but it's not mandatory to drag a knee. Just touch and go, ya know. I try not to grind away my $40 in knee pucks in a couple of track days. Many times I don't even drag a knee, as well as many of my lines require leaning the bike past a knee touch. So it requires me to pick up my knee. Anyway... Will your knee not fall farther down as your head and upper body goes down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid van cleef Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 My knee touches down, i dont dig it into the track surface, just scrapes a little. imagine how flexible a normal person is with their hip joint in an outward motion ,then half it.....anyhoo. that not a big deal really. im more concerned with getting set up for the corners right now and i think typing about it has helped get it into my head....the order of things that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmith12 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Well then.... your obvious answer is when you start to drag elbow, you have leaned over enough. lol.... I'm joking.... seriously just joking. Seriously though... read up on the knee to knee drill. That should help explain what we mean when we say keep both knees on the tank as you slide across the seat. It's awesome in the chincanes but works just the same for any given corner. The only differences are you keep both knees on the tank for heavy braking and let your knee fall or relax into place when you turn in. For you it may not be as much as the next rider but still the same none the less. Your specific style may vary it a bit as well. Search on youtube for UK Superbike School (CSS in the UK), they have a awesome set of videos that may be of interest to you. I find it very helpful to review things as well. Best of luck to you and happy riding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslcbr600 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 The other common thing I see is when people use the knee to knee drill they actually lift their butt up in the air and transfer to the other side....this can cause a negative input to the handle bars and make the bike less stable and of course the faster you go the more it will input to the bars. Just slide your rear across the seat, it's actually faster to transition that way anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noamkrief Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Had the exact same question when I was taking private instruction from an AMA racer. I told him I don't want to weight the handlebars during braking but I want to get my body position done and over with right before the braking begins... He agreed. Hang the butt off before you start braking. He said - the truth is, use your wrists to brace your upper body from going forward. He literally got on the ground and did a push up for me. I guess the point is this. During a corner, it's very important to keep the grip on the bars light as a feather. But when you are going in a straight line, I guess they can be used to brace yourself. As you start to enter the corner, the braking force is eased and you can get your weight off your wrists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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