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Crash At Thunderbolt Turn 6. What Happened?


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Not sure what happened here, my guess is too much lean angle for the Q3. I don't see any bike input during the corner. Unfortunately my phone data logger clears all data for incomplete laps, so we can only read speed and g-force for the previous laps.



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Sorry to hear about your crash, Spaghetti :(


It doesn't sound like a footpeg scratching to me (I think you'd also notice the tingling sensation in the footpeg). It sound more to me as if you're hesitating slightly on the gas, which could shift the load forward. Yup, you're definitely rolling off the gas twice - first the normal roll-off and then again just a bit. Very clear if you start from 5m55s:




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I was startled by your turn point. We've both been on T-Bolt enough times to know where the turn point is (the School's taped marks are indelibly imprinted in my head) and when I was watching I thought Whoa just as you turned. There's a lot of "stuff" on the outside of most every corner. Kai's comment is right on point as well but IMHO you over cooked that corner and when you tried to compensate your were in an area of less than ideal traction.

...I am also sorry about your crash. Kai is always a gentleman first.

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Sorry to hear about the crash. I hope you and the bike are ok.


What stuck out to me most about this crash was the series little mistakes that I saw and heard before the crash (I watched the whole video). The bike bouncing off the rev limiter because of a missed shift. Some in and out of the throttle here and there. Forgotten downshifts performed well after the corner spoiling the exit drive. Little mistakes that we all make from time to time but they were regular throughout the video. If I had to guess you were getting a bit tired.


I agree with Kevin and KHP's analysis of what probably caused the crash. Do you think rider fatigue might have played a part in this?

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Yes, there is some throttle play but the crash happens a half-second after the correction. I'm a bit off the apex/kerb, but does off line mean crash? All previous laps go through the same off-line. I'm still not 100% clear what happened.


As for the shifting, I remember hitting a false neutral on the straight, it happened to me a few other times. I don't have a quick shifter and try to use as little clutch as possible. I'm sure if I pull the clutch full-in and apply more pressure on the shifter it doesn't happen.


The other late downshift @rchase noticed is more interesting: it happens often to me in turn 1. This is the only point where I can pass 2/3 slower bikes at the time because they brake earlier, but by focusing on braking and taking the (very) inside line I can't make it to the downshift on time before the turn. It got so bad that I got used to downshift after the turn every other lap. I don't like it, I'd much rather enter turn 1 in second gear, but I've figured it's safer for the other bikes to see me well on the straight than attempt passes in the other corners, especially if I have multiple slower bikes in front of me.

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First off, all my sympathies for the crash. Never good, but let's try and pull some positive out of it.


Well ... it's always so much easier to criticise someone's else's riding :) . But seeing as you asked ..


How do you rate your throttle control? For me, I hear very little, or a much delayed, roll-on after you initiate your turns. Which, if it's true, means you're asking a lot from that front tire - and it's your front that lets go.


To my mind, you're charging your turns. Cracking it down the straight is all very fine (altho' personally I make a point of slowing down on the straights ...); but you need to be fully in control by the time you get to the turns. Have a look at the rear view camera: you'll see a couple of riders* on what I suspect are machines with much less top end than yours, but who take the turns with considerably more ease and precision - and do so more quickly :blink: .


* Not least the guy who was behind you when you crashed.





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I tend to agree with Ventodue on this and it's something I was alluding to myself with my comment about the missed downshifts. Some questions for you.


If you were missing downshifts how much of your $10 worth of attention did you have left?


How much do you think downshifting after the corner costs you on your lap time?


If there was a rider that was in the correct gear with a pinned throttle how many bike lengths do you think he would have on you because of the downshifts?


Would being late on the brakes and being too hot entering a corner help you catch up to a rider ahead who is already on the gas on the exit?


While corner speed is important so is exit speed. It's a tricky balance between the two. Arrive mid corner too fast with the bike out of shape and you have to deal with the problems associated with that before you can get back on the gas. A rider who arrived slightly slower who you probably passed is more than able to repass on the exit because they can get on the gas earlier because their bike is fully under control. Many however don't because it's a track day. I'm guilty of that myself actually. Open track is a lot more valuable to me than a pass. :)

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I will be kinda blunt here...


You charge a lot of corners. You want some throttle roll in the corners when the steering is complete. You trail very, very deep in the corners. Your crash looks pretty easy to diagnose. Charged corner, didn't get entry speed set properly (in time), rolled off gas, overloaded the front.


Subtle but I will ask. You were chasing down a rider. Was you looking at him at the time? For a hint, check the same corner a lap before. :)


Bummer too, hope you fared well, heal up quick and any repairs don't hurt even worse. :)

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