Questions Concerning The School At Barber Motorsports Park

[undrlord]

Me and a buddy of mine are attending the school at Barber on August 25 and 26. We both have been to Barber twice w/ NESBA and kinda know what to expect w/ them.

 

Here are my questions about this day....Can we unpack and pit in of Friday evening or can we only arrive on Saturday? I take it that we can setup EZ up tents in the pit area but will electricity be an option (we can pay for a box when we go with NESBA to power fans and such). Will there be people there taking pics of us while on track? We both have XT lap timers....are these good to use w/ the system that use?

 

Sorry for all of the questions but figured I would ask now and not wait until the last minute.

 

Thanks.....

 

Lance

[2bigalow]

Me and a buddy of mine are attending the school at Barber on August 25 and 26. We both have been to Barber twice w/ NESBA and kinda know what to expect w/ them.

 

Here are my questions about this day....Can we unpack and pit in of Friday evening or can we only arrive on Saturday? I take it that we can setup EZ up tents in the pit area but will electricity be an option (we can pay for a box when we go with NESBA to power fans and such). Will there be people there taking pics of us while on track? We both have XT lap timers....are these good to use w/ the system that use?

 

Sorry for all of the questions but figured I would ask now and not wait until the last minute.

 

Thanks.....

 

Lance

Hey undrlord,

 

Unpacking is a good question.? I would call the track and specificlly ask if you can unpack on Friday. Some tracks are very accomidating, some only allow entry the day of. I would also ask about the electricity. EZup' should not be a problem.

Bob from Etech will be there taking photos of all students. He will post photos thoughout the day.

I dont think the XT lap timer will work with the school system, but I'm sure Trevor will allow you to put a transmitter if you have one. If you dont have a transmitter, school transponders are available.

 

Take care

Jr

[undrlord]

Me and a buddy of mine are attending the school at Barber on August 25 and 26. We both have been to Barber twice w/ NESBA and kinda know what to expect w/ them.

 

Here are my questions about this day....Can we unpack and pit in of Friday evening or can we only arrive on Saturday? I take it that we can setup EZ up tents in the pit area but will electricity be an option (we can pay for a box when we go with NESBA to power fans and such). Will there be people there taking pics of us while on track? We both have XT lap timers....are these good to use w/ the system that use?

 

Sorry for all of the questions but figured I would ask now and not wait until the last minute.

 

Thanks.....

 

Lance

Hey undrlord,

 

Unpacking is a good question.? I would call the track and specificlly ask if you can unpack on Friday. Some tracks are very accomidating, some only allow entry the day of. I would also ask about the electricity. EZup' should not be a problem.

Bob from Etech will be there taking photos of all students. He will post photos thoughout the day.

I dont think the XT lap timer will work with the school system, but I'm sure Trevor will allow you to put a transmitter if you have one. If you dont have a transmitter, school transponders are available.

 

Take care

Jr

 

 

 

 

I guess I will give them a call about the unpacking. We have always been able to unpack the day before w/ NESBA because we don't like leaving our bikes at the hotel. That stinks about the lap timers. Guess we will need to locate a transmitter.

[undrlord]

Also I understand that the school uses DB Comm system for getting lap times. I have found someone that will let me use a transmitter for our XT timers, are you pretty sure that it would be ok to set this up? Is there someone that I can call, other than the main number, so I can get more precise info as opposed to the ladies in the office?

[2bigalow]

Also I understand that the school uses DB Comm system for getting lap times. I have found someone that will let me use a transmitter for our XT timers, are you pretty sure that it would be ok to set this up? Is there someone that I can call, other than the main number, so I can get more precise info as opposed to the ladies in the office?

 

Correct on the timing system, we use DB comm. Using the XT transmitter should not be a problem. When you get to the track, ask for Trevor. He's the on track coordinator for the school. I'm sure he'll let you set up the transmitter at start / finish. When you say main number, did you call our office or Barber? Barber is the one you need to call for info on wether you can set up / unloading early. Different tracks have different rules.

[undrlord]

I have contacted the Director of Operations at Barber and he told me that it was up to the school whether or not we can pit early. So I call the school and get the same girl that always answers the phone. I asked to speak w/ Trevor, this is who the Barber Director told me to speak w/, and she said that he was not in at the moment and asked if she could take a message. I said yes and began to give her my info and she started being a smart ass on the phone to me. I told her what it was concerning and then she tells me that Trevor will not be back in the office until after the Barber event. She then says that she will get Trevor the message to call me. I asked her if she was going to be able to get him the message before the event and she said that she would try her best. All of this was done w/ a really smart ass tone from her.

 

I am thinking that I really don't appreciate being talked to that way when I am paying $1000 to someone for training. There is never any mention from her about her seeing if she could ask someone right then and there to find out the answers to my questions. That is all I want is to get a straight answer from someone, NOT her. Is there anyone that can do that for me!!

 

Sorry for the rant, but it is getting close to the event and I am just trying to be prepared. I have been to track days before and know how they run.....I am just not sure about this.

[racer]

Hey Lance,

 

Don't make it bad.

 

Take a sad day and make it better.

 

...

 

Chill. Someone will get back with you before Barber.

 

And if not...

 

My advice is to just go and show up early. If the track said that it is up to CSS, it would seem that the track is OK with it. I would simply roll up and expect to be accomodated.

 

There are times when a friendly smile and a shrug can carry you to the ends of the earth.

 

"Well, I dunno. I just came from really far away and thought it would be OK...gee, shucks, whadya think?"

 

"Aw shucks" goes way further than an attitude of self importance.

 

In twenty years of setting up early at racetracks, it has been the rare exception that I find a local person so uptight as to not be happy to be of a service to a friend. And a rare thing that I couldn't make a connection as a human being and make friends with anyone if I concentrated on doing that. It is rare that a friend won't do all they can to help you, eh?

 

Of course, if I fronted up with a face full of ME ME ME or NOW NOW NOW, I generally was disappointed in any event.

 

The one major exception to that rule being Daytona.

 

And even there I found a vendor who was willing to bring me in with them on vendor set up day to store my stuff in their garage. Of course, I made a huge concession to run a couple of his stickers. And that company ended up being one of my biggest long time sponsors for ten years and did me more favors and saved my life more times than I can count. For instance picking me up and loading all my stuff into their truck when my van died on the I95 just north of the Florida state line headed back to Daytona the following year. And his entire family are folks I am proud to call "friends" to this day.

 

Lemons to lemonade. It's all an adventure, mate. And every moment is 100% within your control to make good or bad.

 

There are times in life when having every little last t crossed and i dotted is a prioity. Other times, it is possible to be so worried and micro-managing as to create more problems than you solve by getting in your own way. Let it ride amte and trust it will turn out for the best.

 

The folks at the school are some of the coolest people I have met anywhere and I have been pretty much everywhere.

 

It'll be OK.

 

Some more unsolicited advice ...

 

If you think of your school tuition as your contribution to help keep such a wonderful experience as the school alive to exist for everyone ... instead of say your personal price tag to entitle you to being treated the way you want or demand, you will get much more out of your whole experience at the school and probably in the rest of life.

 

In any case, venting your frustration and dissatisfaction on their public forum after not getting instant results for minimum effort to satisfy YOUR personal requirements is way bad form, mate.

 

racer

[2bigalow]

Hey undrlord,

 

Apologies for the around. We just try not to step on the toes of the track directors when it comes to "their" facilities. We are guest of the facility just like anyone else. For example Mid Ohio ran AMA races this weekend and we were there Monday morning. If you were to "set up" early, the track director wouldn't know if you were at the races or a student with the school. If the director of Barber said it's up to the school, then it's OK. Take your stuff to the track and set it up. And dont forget your transmitter.

 

JR.

 

PS Have some fun!!!

[undrlord]

Thanks for the info and input guys.

 

Racer...I know what you are saying and believe me I am one of the nicest people in the world and very easy to get along w/. I like to be over prepared for everything and just want some answers to some quick easy questions. All I wanted for this girl to do yesterday was say, "give me a sec and I will find out the answer for you." Thats it! But then she flips the table and becomes rude to me. That is all I am going to say about it.

 

I will be there w/ bells on and looking forward to getting a ton of first hand knowledge that I know I need to make me better.

 

Thanks again!!

[racer]

Thanks for the info and input guys.

 

Racer...I know what you are saying and believe me I am one of the nicest people in the world and very easy to get along w/. I like to be over prepared for everything and just want some answers to some quick easy questions. All I wanted for this girl to do yesterday was say, "give me a sec and I will find out the answer for you." Thats it! But then she flips the table and becomes rude to me. That is all I am going to say about it.

 

I will be there w/ bells on and looking forward to getting a ton of first hand knowledge that I know I need to make me better.

 

Thanks again!!

 

 

 

 

 

Personally bashing her on a public forum will not resolve the issue.

 

 

Best wishes,

 

BH

[Kevin Kane]

My dealings with the School's home office in LA have been nothing but professional and positive for the past six years (and counting) so I am surprised by your post about how you perceived her responsiveness was to your inquiry. As for Trevor's availability, check the School's schedule if you want to know when he will be back. Right now, he is at Mid-Ohio. From there, he goes to Black Hawk Farms and from there he goes to Pocono and then to Barber; so he just may not be available to answer your set up question for Barber just yet. On the road, most CSS team members are putting in 12 hour days at a minimum to make sure that the Schools they are conducting go as smoothly as they can be because they do appreciate how much money you (and I) have paid to attend.

 

One bit of advice I would offer is to leave your X-T at home. The School's passing rules are strict and non negotiable; violations will get reported and repeated violations will get you tossed out of school. Trevor "controls" the track all day long and as a CSS cornerworker (east coast Schools), I know first hand how well he maintains safety and decorum at every track.

 

Remember, you're going to a cornering school, not a race school and there is a world of difference between the two (I've been to both). If you're going there to set a PB lap time or to dice it up with your buddy, you are picking the wrong venue IMHO. Their approach is very structured and is a progressive cirriculum where your use of the transmission and brakes will be restricted until the end of the day. Corner workers also monitor if you are braking during a no brake session or shifting in a single gear session so the result will be lap times that will be quite disappointing.

 

But if you are looking to learn how to corner better, leave the X-T at home and arrive with an open attitude to some very well developed and time tested instruction. As you said, you are paying a lot of money to attend CSS/Barber so I would suggest that you focus on what thay have to offer to maximize that investment.

 

Kevin Kane

[undrlord]

So it is considered bashing her whenever I am just saying that she was being a smart a$$ to me? Maybe ya'll know whoever it was that answered the phone and know that she is a nice person, maybe she was having a bad day.....I don't know. All I am saying is that it was not handled very professionally.

 

Kevin - I appreciate your input about the lap timer and I do 100% understand that it is a cornering school NOT a race school. I am going to this to become better and more confident in my riding. I have only been to 3 track days total, all w/ NESBA, and 2 of those 3 events have been at Barber. I am giving this school 110% of my undivided attention and plan on learning alot from the experienced riders out there. I don't break any rules when I ride on track so if they say no passing....then there will be no passing. I am bringing my lap timer for two reasons.....first they are new and I would like to see if they work before I go to another track day and second I don't want to have to pay for my lap times from the school if I have a device that can tell me right then and there for free.

 

Look, I have talked to a lot of people that have said this school is wonderful that is one of the main reasons that we chose to attend it. I am sorry if me posting on here, valid questions and opinions, has ruffled anyones feathers.

[racer]

So it is considered bashing her whenever I am just saying that she was being a smart a$$ to me?

 

Yes, it is.

 

All I am saying is that it was not handled very professionally.

 

Sooo ... that is a reason for you to handle "it" and yourself unprofessionally?

 

If you are unable to resolve a personal issue with her, the indicated course of action is to address the issue through proper channels. Bad mouthing her (or ranting as you put it) behind her back on the school's forum is not a proper channel. And essentially ineffective. If she did, in fact, behave in an unprofessional fashion, the folks who need to know about it to be able to correct the situation are not being informed.

 

As for voicing your opinion, valid or not, about the office girl here ... well ... I can't speak for everyone, but, I come to hear about motorcycles and riding techniques, eh?

 

I am bringing my lap timer for two reasons.....first they are new and I would like to see if they work before I go to another track day and second I don't want to have to pay for my lap times from the school if I have a device that can tell me right then and there for free.

 

I was unaware that the school had begun charging for laptimes. If that is true, I can see why you would want to be able to record your own. Laptimes are a foundational element of Keith's philosophy of the proof being in the pudding, so to speak, and were always an integral tool used at the school when I attended. I would be surprised to learn that laptimes are no longer provided.

 

That said, the school has changed since I was a student. Perhaps the new teaching philosophy has moved the focus away from laptimes at the lower level schools to focus on learning riding techniques and avoid folks seeking a personal best lap time as it could be a distraction to the learning process. I could certainly understand the thinking behind not providing them to discourage a competitive attitude while learning.

 

In any case, the time and attention you spend on your personal timing system will, by definition, be a distraction and leave you at less than 100% to learn about your riding. IMHO the school is the place to learn about your riding, not your new laptimer system.

 

Look, I have talked to a lot of people that have said this school is wonderful that is one of the main reasons that we chose to attend it. I am sorry if me posting on here, valid questions and opinions, has ruffled anyones feathers.

 

My feathers are just fine and are my responsibility in any case. No need to apologize nor to defend your actions or opinions. I do not know the office girl and I am not "defending" her or the school. Honestly, I am only trying to help you.

 

Have a better one,

 

BH

[undrlord]

Well since everyone comes here to talk about bikes....lets talk about them.

 

Racer - what do you ride? How long have you been at it (riding that is)?

[racer]

Well since everyone comes here to talk about bikes....lets talk about them.

 

Racer - what do you ride? How long have you been at it (riding that is)?

 

Well, that really would be talking about me as opposed to riding techniques or motorcycle tech/set up. But, you are right. I should probably post some of that info in my profile since I have taken a more active role in the forum of late.

 

For now, I will go off topic here and say that I started riding in 1977 on a Yamaha DT100 and bought my first roadbike (a 1983 Kawasaki 440LTD) after I graduated and moved out of my folks house as I was not allowed to own one while living under their roof. Two years and 50,000 miles later I got a 600 Ninja. The following year I bought a GPz 750 for road trips. The next summer (1987) I attended my first race meeting as a spectator at Mid-Ohio AMA National and the following year (1988) I took my first CSS class at Watkins Glen on a Ninja 600 and my second class on a Ninja 250 at Mid-Ohio later that summer.

 

In 1989, I attended the AMA National at Loudon, New Hampshire where I began cornerworking for the US Marshalls and CSS. I worked some more events at Mid-Ohio and Bridgehampton and reversed my CSS schedule to ride the 250 at Watkins Glen and the 600 at Mid-Ohio.

 

The following year (1990) I worked a couple more weekends for CSS and almost moved to California to work full time for the school. Instead, I continued cornerworking events all over the eastern US including but not limited to Bridgehampton, Loudon (AMA National), Nelson Ledges (WERA 24 Hour Endurance), Mid-Ohio (AMA National), and Charlotte (AMA National) where I once picked up Freddie Spencer from a first lap crash. (That might have been July '91?)

 

I think F-USA started that year. I worked the Pocono events where I got to see Ulrich's Monsters and Kenny's Kids on "screamer" YZR500's ride the Pocono speedway high banks right here on American soil, yep yep. And working at the Road Atlanta round, I couldn't believe my eyes watching Robbie Petersen and Rich Oliver carry the front wheel of their 500 Gp bikes out from under the bridge and all the way down the hill only to use the exit curb at the bottom as a berm onto the front straight. I still get goose bumps just thinking about that.

 

I think the cornerworking highlight of 1991 had to be the Aurora Borealis blazing above the infield campfires overnight at the Nelson 24 Hour race while my best friend and I worked the corner station at the back straight kink to call in any bikes that rode off into the swamp. (Not an uncommon occurence.) Jimmy was blown away. His head kept swinging back and forth from up at the northern lights to back down at several sets of headlights emerging from the darkness through thick fog at 150+ mph not ten feet away from us and saying over and over, "I've never seen anything like that!" and "I can't believe they let people do this!"

 

I was never quite certain whether he was talking about the aurora, the race bikes or us.

 

I bought my first race bike in August 1991, a Yamaha FZR400, and took the Penguin School at the traditional Labor Day Bridgehampton AMA/CCS weekend where I earned a second place trophy in my first race ever. I credit my learning experiences with Keith Code and CSS for that. The following weekend at Loudon, I won the second race I ever entered. I take credit for that. Sorry Keith. I have to give myself some credit sometime, eh? At the AMA/CCS Pro-Am champs at Daytona that fall, I started last row in a points gridded field of about 50 bikes and raced my way to ninth place before running out of fuel on the last lap because, although I measured the fuel correctly for the race, I had forgotten to turn the petcock to RES. DOH! I think I finished 11th or 13th or something after I realized what happened and turned the petcock. I still carry a proof sheet photo of myself (riding over Scott Russel's crash marks) in the International Horseshoe from that weekend in my wallet.

 

Over the next two years I rode an FZR600 and built an FZR 400/600 (stuffed the 600 motor into a 400 frame) to race at the last ever 1993 WERA 24 Hour Endurance Race at Nelson Ledges (true Le Mans start). We broke a chain, lost about 40 minutes and finished about 7th I think. Anyway, I continued racing my FZR400 and won a box full of podium trophies. I also got to "test" a TZ250 at a Nelsons practice day.

 

In late October 1993, hours before I was to leave for the GNF at Road Atlanta where I intended to win or die trying, I was hit by a car on the GPz750 and shattered my left arm and wrist (almost lost my left hand), sustained other internal injuries and spent the following year (1994) recuperating from four operations with big hunks of metal hanging out of my arm and working as a CRC or WERA official helping out Linda Lu with course control at Nelson's or hanging out with Kurt Hall in the announcer's booth at Savannah (Roebling Road). I also started a race shop/race team with some racing "buddies", but, my "business partners" turned out to be more interested in "hanging out" than working so I took my money and split. Oh well. Live and learn. I don't rightly recall if I got back on course that summer/fall or not. If I did, it was only once or twice at Loudon and Nelson, but, I don't really recall anymore.

 

I never bought or rode another street bike after the accident, but, in 1995 I bought a Honda RS125RR factory roadracer and went GP racing. And fell in love with it. I mostly ran the WERA National series and won enough money to pretty much cover my expenses every weekend. I have an ESPN tape of the Gratten F-USA/WERA National event somewhere around here with Kurt Hall announcing my name over and over again as the pack drafted and battled down the front straight lap after lap with me repeatedly winning the braking duel for turn one. That was ESPN in case you missed it.

 

1996 was a busy year at home and I honestly don't think I raced at all that year.

 

In 1997 I bought a leftover new 1996 RS125RR from Moto-Liberty and took delivery at Road Atlanta where I renewed my relationship with Keith Code and friends. (Unless that was 1995 spring weekend? It's a bit hazy.) Over the next couple of years I tweaked and modified the '96 RS with B-kits, A-kits, airbox, pipes, wheels, interchangable head inserts, electronic shifter, unobtainable by civilians at any price D-bore factory carb with fully adjustable power jet from WGP (MotoGP) circuit in Europe, etc, etc, etc and basically continued to have a lot of fun. The highlight of '97 was driving to GNF at Road Atlanta with comet Hale-Bopp keeping me company out the right side of the van windshield all night.

 

The highlight in 1998 was pitting with Bruce Lind, working with Rodney Fee and Ben Solis, making new friends and re-connecting with old friends at the Laguna Seca WSB round where I got bumped off in the only qualifying session and had to wait on the bubble until Sunday when two riders withdrew due to injuries suffered in morning practice crashes and I was able to petition the AMA with Audrey's (event sponsor) help for the last grid position (50th) less than two hours before the race.

 

After all that drama, I feel compelled to share a race synopsis ...

 

From dead last 50th (couldn't even see the flag drop), I worked my way up to 20th in 6 laps (passed 29 other riders) and was again bumped off on the white flag lap but remounted to finish like 25 or 27... something like that. Whatever. It was only like 8 or 10 laps. Had I been able to post a qualifier, I would easily have qualified in the top third of the 60+ entries that included riders from England, Canada and Japan in addition to the USA. That was the first time I ever rode that track. I raced a few more events after that, but, homelife took precedence for awhile.

 

In 2003, I sold the bikes and moved to New Zealand to help out with Midge Smart's 125GP effort down under. My A-kit tuning experience opened the door for me and Mitch's amazing riding ability earned the team four NZ National Championship titles. I could fill a book with stories of traveling New Zealand with a bunch of utterly mad Kiwi racers like Jason Easton and Shaun Harris. But having emergency surgery to repair a broken tooth by Andy Stroud's dentist would have to take the cake ... lol.

 

Well, except maybe for being able to claim that I've ridden the southernmost race track on the planet at Invercargill, NZ.

 

 

Right now, I'm looking around for something special to start a new collection. And, if things go well, I may find myself back on track sooner rather than later. Time will tell.

 

 

I realize that barely scratches the surface, really, but; it should give you something of a glimpse into my motorcycles and riding experience.

 

 

So ... what about you?

[undrlord]

Wow Racer.....that is very interesting for sure. My story is not nearly as long or even as close to as interesting as yours =) Here is all I have.

 

In roughly 1998 or 1999 I got started in local SCCA events racing a Honda CRX. The year I raced I took 1st place in my local class. I attended one regional event in Evansville IN and came in 3rd in my class.

 

The next year I decided to switch up cars and bought a Miata. It was fun to drive but started having a few issues w/ it, mechanically, so I called it quits for the year. As time went on w/ the Miata I slowly started to modify it and ended up w/ a turbo kit on it running 15psi. Getting me close to 250 HP at the wheels. Very quick, very fun car to drive. But as time went on w/ that It started to become to small so I sold it for a BMW.

 

After years of not racing and doing the marriage thing I started to get the itch for something for a hobby again but I knew I didn't have the room for another car.....so.....a friend of mine had just bought an '04 R6 and it just looked like so much fun. I had grown up riding quads and the occational dirt bike but never riden a street bike. After over a year of trying to convince, my now ex-wife, she let me take the motorcycle safty course and picked up my first bike in July of 2005......a 2004 Kawi ZX-6R, Kawi green of course!!

 

I had never really thought about getting on the track w/ one because I always thought that it was unobtainable, to expensive, to do. Until I found NESBA. By June 2006 we had purchased off the gear to get out to the track. All I can say is WOW!!! That was without a doubt the coolest thing that I had ever done in my life....I was totally hooked.

 

Around July I was going through a divorce so what better than retail theropy =) I decided to look for another bike and got hooked on getting a liter bike. So in July of 2006 I bought a 2006 Kawi ZX-10R. Man I love this bike, but respect the power of it big time.

 

In September I had a wreck on it. It was not high speed and no other cars involved. It was contributed to cold tires and slick spot in the pavement. In fact I was only going like 5 mph. I ended up high siding off it and broke my collar bone. Needless to say I was devistated by this and was going to sell both bikes and get out of riding all together. After months of thing about it I decided that it would be totally stupid to do that since I have so much fun riding. So I got rid of the ZX6 and let the mods begin for the ZX10 =)

 

We hit Road Atlanta in May and back to Barber in June. Two very fun tracks and two very different tracks.

 

It was at that time that me and my buddy had decided that there is no way in this world that we are going to stop going to track days ever.....so with that being said we decided to attend the school. We figured that if we are going to continue track days there is no need to be out there practicing the wrong things on track that might get us in trouble.

 

We never plan on racing professionally but use this as more of a wonderful hobby where you can meet other wonderful people and gain those life long friendships w/ others that are willing to give you a helping hand when needed. I know that this school is our next step in becoming better, more knowledgeable riders.

 

There it is. Not nearly as cool as yours but my interest has just begun =)

[racer]

I'm glad you enjoyed my "story". I hope it answered your question(s) regarding my motorcycle experience with enough relevant detail.

 

You will undoubtedly have mad fun and learn a lot with CSS at Barber and I am looking forward to hearing all about it afterward.