stuman
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Posts posted by stuman
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First off, high octane fuel will do NOTHING for performance. High octane fuel is only meant to resist detonation in high compression motors. So unless you have milled your head or have different pistons you actually want to run the lowest octane fuel you can for your bike. Low octane fuel is more volatile and will produce more power. As long as the engine doesn't ping or knock on a lower octane fuel.
Real race gas is a whole other story. Fuel like VP MR9 or Ultimate 4.2 will produce more power. To get the most out of race fuels like this you should map the bike for it as they tend to make a bike run lean. These fuels produce more power because they are oxygenated, not because of the octane rating.
My ZX10 makes about 5 more HP on race gas then it does on pump gas, but it was mapped for race gas. If you mapped it for each type of fuel the difference would probably be less, maybe 3hp. On a typical race weekend I run pump gas in practice and race fuel durring the race.
The things is on a 600 you MIGHT get 2-3 more hp out of ultimate 4.3 or maybe as much as 5hp out of the more expensive stuff like MR9.
Is 2 hp really going to make a difference? Well, if your racing at the front maybe...
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Yes, I like messing with people's heads
What if you were to release the brake as you turned the bike ?
What I mean is, when you reached your desired lean angle the brake is completely released and you could crack on the gas. But your still on the brake when you turn in.
Would this be considered trail braking? Or something different.
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Yeah, more low end power then anything I've been on. The power was the most impressive thing, it seemed to come on at almost no rpms and build evenly till redline, which come in a hurry.
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What does it take?
A concentrated effort to improve.
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I'd suguest you try is for at least a couple sessions a day. Every lap for a whole session for sure.
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Yeah, we pretty much run the same track for every school out at Vegas. At the two day camps we run it in both directions though, so it is like two tracks
There are tons of places to stay in Vegas, Circus Circus rooms are decent and pretty cheap.
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Hey Gigi (what a cool name by the way
)I kinda of have this theory about practice vs: race modes. I think that during practice we tend to think much more about our riding and work on skills that we think are going to help us go faster. Then when the green flag drops 1/2 of that stuff goes out the window and we ride more on instinct
So the thing is, we have to make it so that what we think is proper form becomes instinct. You have to practice perfect form all the time, and you have to practice at a pace that presses you a bit. Anyone can ride around and use perfect form and good lines etc. at a reasonable pace. You have to ride HARD in practice and make sure that you are still doing things right. After a while the proper form will come natural and you will continue to do it even while under pressure during a race.
There is some saying about "perfect practice" but I forget how that goes so
I'll just say do it right during practice, but ride hard enough in practice to challenge yourself. Put some pressure on yourself in practice to get decent lap times.PS: I'm going to move your thread over to the cornering forum as you may get more responses over there. This one is kinda just for questions about the school.
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My diet has been pizza and ice cream as of late, and it shows
I have had great success with the Fit For Life diet in the past though and I'll probably go back on that soon so I can drop a few pounds.As for exercise, Bicycling is my thing. I mountain bike, and road bike. I'm lucky to have a great place to mountain bike right across the street from my house so I usually mountain bike more. Although it is nice to take the road bike down PCH and check out the beach every once in a while. I think bicycling really is the best exercise to get in shape for road racing.
I also ride a lot of motocross which really helps get you in shape and builds your skills for road racing.
OK, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. I actually own and use a Suzanne Summers Thigh Master before big endurance races. I started doing endurance races a few years ago. Willow Springs used to to the Toyota 200 every year and I raced every one of them since they started it. The T200 is a 200 mile solo race, so your on the bike for about 2 hours at full race pace. I've done some 6 hour and 4 hour team races with WERA as well. Anyway, during these really long races my hip flexors and the muscles on the inside of my thighs would get real tired and sometimes cramp. The Thigh Master builds these muscles and is really great exercise for riding. You need to be comfortable with your sexuality though
I told the girl at the sporting goods store I was buying it for someone else. -
Hubbard - Yeah, I was taking it a little easy on the Duc. Not too easy though, I did spin up the rear a few times
Ace - No the track wasn't wet, Sears point pavement is pretty old and gets a lot of use so it is pretty glassy. Both pics are of me and I was just playing around backing in the ZX10 using the clutch.
Kev - It was really nice of the guy to let me ride his bike and I was NOT going to take any undue chances with it. I was thinking about how much that bike cost a lot even while riding. I did push it a bit as I wanted to get a feel for what the bike was capable of (it is VERY CAPABLE) and even spun up the rear tire a few times (traction control is a $10K option on this bike and this one didn't have it). I was shaking for quite some time after I got off the bike, it was the experience of a lifetime.
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I had some serious fun at the last school for this year up at Sears point so I thought I woul dpost up some photos from the day.
Having some fun on the ZX10. Man those slipper clutches are sweet
Having a little more fun on one of those desmo-thingies
Good times, good times
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Sweet Pics !!
Yep, cold tires, cold track = lots O crashes at most trackdays 
You would think riders would figure out that when it is cold you need to warm up your tires for a few laps.... -
OK, I'm not trying to stir up another trail braking discussion here
Let's take the very straight forward example of a 90 degree constant radius corner that is pretty much flat (no camber positive or negative). This corner is preceded by a long straight and followed by a straight as well. I'm sure there is a corner sorta like this on most of the tracks we all ride. If not exactly like is picture a corner that is as close to the preceding description as you can get. My local examples would be turn 1 at Willow Springs (Although it has some camber) or turn 1 or the last turn at Buttonwillow. Turn one at Sears is pretty close as is turn 10 at The Streets of Willow.
OK so in this type of corner, when do you release the brake?
Well before the corner?
At the turn point?
Just after the turn point?
At the Apex?
???????
I'm asking you to think about a corner like this that you ride on a somewhat regular basis and describe what you actually do now. I'm not asking a theoretical question about what is the best way to brake for this corner. I want to know what you do today.
Do you think that the way you release the brake now is best?
Why or why not?
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Riding in the rain certainly presents it's own set of challenges. Like Cobie said the surface plays a big part in how far you can lean it over or how how fast you can go or how hard you can brake or how quick you can turn before you loose traction.
I think the thing to remember when searching for the limit of traction (wet or dry) is to approach the limit gradually. You need to slowly and progressively work toward more lean angle or harder acceleration, or ...
If you blow past the limit of traction, the slide you get will be more abrupt and you stand a much better chance of falling down.
If you sneak up on the limit, the slide you get might not be as big and you stand a better chance of controlling it.
Sorry, I know that doesn't really answer your question. I have a hard time putting into words the sensation you get when you're about to loose traction (wet or dry).
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2 turns that flow into 1 turn - i,m wondering whether i can handle them better particularly with regard to throttle application , i seem to have reasonable pace but the quick guys are better there on some of these turns ,i do have a turnn point for the 2nd part of these turns although not as accurate as i would like .
throttle feels like i should be slightly faster in the middle if anything .
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking here. My only advice with regard to the throttle in a double apex corner is that your throttle control should be pretty much as if it was two corners. Roll off, turn in for the first part of the turn, roll back on through the first part of the turn, then roll off and turn in for the second part of the turn, then roll on through the second part of the turn.
At another track there are 2 lefts together after the fist as i,m going into the 2nd i,m trying to turn sometimes with the throttle open and then am briefly stuck with the throttle until i,m at apex . i think this is because i was tryin to make it without a roll off after the fist left .i,ve since tried with a roll off after exiting the fist left with the bike as upright as possible then turning into 2nd left off throttle and then roll on as normal . this gets me good drive out of the 2nd left , BUT between exit of first left and entry to 2nd left feels slow and a bit no mans land , as if i,m slightly lost for a second or two .
thats the best way i can describe my problem i,ve been having , it has got better / faster .
Sounds like trying to turn in with the throttle on isn't working very well for you. Why not roll off before you turn in so you can get back on the gas after you have completed your turn in?
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Hmm, I'm not sure why the forum would look different from one pc to another. It must be some setting in your browser as I assume you are using the same user name to login on each pc. Your user name on the forum should control all your personal preferences so they should be the same from one pc to the next.
Are you using the same browser?
I would check the browser settings...
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Well I'm a pretty big guy too. I'm 6'1" and about 250 right now. When I'm serious about racing I can get my weight down to around 210.
I know what you mean about your back. I fractured a vertebrate (C12) this summer and I'm still recovering. My back gets pretty sore. That is part of the reason I'm so heavy right now, just haven't been doing much since I got hurt.
Anyway, I try not to think too much about my weight being a disadvantage.
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From my experience, there are some turns that you really have to trail into to maintain your speed, Turns 3 and 9 at Fontana are good examples. In general, I try not to, but once in a while I don't see a way around it.
I agree, these corners would be good candidates for trail braking. In turn three your kinda leaned over going in there and it is closely followed by another corner. Turn nine is closely followed by another corner as well.
I'm not sure if maybe it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but to me any corner that leads into another corner can be a good candidate for trail braking. Mostly because I feel that getting into such corners fast is more important then getting a drive our of them or getting on the gas super early. As always there are exceptions, but it works for me as a rule of thumb.
If a corner is followed by a straight you need to think about your exit speed more. In these corners trail braking probably isn't such a good idea.
Like at Willow Springs, trailing the brake into turn three works OK, but I wouldn't trail brake into turn one.
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I have heard the same ration regarding hp to weight: 7:1 so I think it is probably right.
One thing to remember though is that weight affects acceleration much more then top speed. Aerodynamics is more a factor in top speed. The guy above would certainly be at a huge disadvantage in both areas. As am I
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On the track I use a helmet, a good set of gloves, boots, back protector and a full leather suite. The suite has shoulder, elbow and knee armor. I usually wear an under armor shirt and some bike shorts (yeah not a pretty picture) under the suite. I have thought about a chest protector, but I can barely get my leathers zipped up as it is right now
On the street I have riding shoes (over the ankle), gloves, jacket with armor in the back, shoulders, and elbows. I usually ride in jeans and I have some over pants for when it gets cold that have armor in the knees and hips.
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For sure Jay I have expeienced this myself.
It is interesting that chassis stiffness seems to be such a black art. A while back they used to brace frames to make them stiffer. Then that started getting more chatter and found they had to let the frame flex some. I remember the 998 had removeable frame struts so you could adjust the flex for differen tracks/tires. Yamaha even built a test frame for their motogp bike with dampers on it so the whole frame kinda acted like a shock. I hear ducati is going to a carbon frame next year, seems like a good idea as they can tune the flex in any direction.
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Chopperbill - I don't think anyone can answer your question. I think it is something that you will have to try to figure out for yourself.
There is no garuntee that if you put slicks on your bike you will be able to go x number of seconds faster then you would on DOTs. Some times riders will actually go faster on DOTs if they are more comfortable on them. I know this was the case for our mechanic Will a while back. He was racing multiple classes with WSMC and some classes required DOTs (Superstock) and others woudl allow slicks (ModProd, Superbike and F2). I remember Will saying one weekend that he was gong faster on the DOTs then he could on the slicks because Dunlop had just released a new DOT that he really liked.
Also depeneding on the brand of tire you may not be able to get the exact same profile tire in both a DOT and slick. This would mean that you may need to make chages to your bikes geomatry to really get the best out of a set of slicks. These are changes you wouldn't want to make on a race weekend and this is why many times riders will run DOTs even in classes where slicks are allowed.
When I raced with WSMC on The Streets last year I ran DOT rear tires in all classes, even the ones where slicks were legal. I likeed the DOT rear better then the 17" slick that was available. Although I did run a slick fron in classes where it was allowed. In any case I set three lap records and won every race I finished that year racing on a DOT rear.
My point is, you will have to try it for yourself. Get a new set of DOTs mounted up and see how fast you can go. The mount up a set of slicks and do the same. Just know that you may have to make some settings changes to take advantage of each tire.
My advice, if you are somewhat new to the sport, is just run DOTs in all your classes, I doubt you will find that slicks are going to knock seconds off your lap times. DOTs are pretty darn good these days.
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Here's another artical about backing it in from a supermoto magazine.
http://www.supermotoracer.com/SMR%20Tech%2...s2_backitin.pdf
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I think I turn the bike pretty quickly. At least other riders have commented that I do.
But then there are guys like the schools mechanic Will, who turns the bike way quicker then I do.
So I'll rate myself an 8.
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In responce to the orignial poster's question how is this done, I thought I would post another opinion.
Here is an excerpt from and article written by Andy Ibbott. Andy is the head of our UK school and has written a couple books on riding.
Backing it in
It's one of the most spectacular images in motorcycle racing and there seems to be only a handful of riders that can do it - that is the ability to 'back it in' or slide the rear wheel into a turn. But why do it? None of these riders seem to be any quicker than the rest of the field so what is the point?
In theory, it squares off the corner completely when combined with a power slide on the exit. It's a bit like a rally car where the vehicle is sideways on the way in so it can be pointing up the track as soon as the exit of the corner comes into view. That's easier to do in a car as it has four points of balance in each corner, its wheels.
A bike only has the two so there is a hell of a lot more skill required to get the bike sideways without it high siding the rider into the green stuff.
The exception to the rule is Super Moto where the speeds are slower, the corners tighter and the bikes more set up for this kind of riding.
The ideal is to keep the rear wheel spinning but going at a slower road speed that the rest of the bike. If the rear wheel is locked then the bike soon goes completely out of control, but if it is still turning the gyroscopic effect of the bigger rear wheel keeps the bike balanced and under control. But it's a fine line…
On questioning several World-class riders on the technique there seems to be two ways you can get the bike to be unbalanced on the way into the corner.
Use the rear brake
Use the engine's braking power
There are pros and cons to both and the answer lies in using both of them together. Using the rear brake alone is the more difficult of the two, as it requires an extra ordinary amount of concentration. Too much and the back end will come round too far and result in a crash. Too little and the effect is not enough. While feathering the rear you will need to be hard on the front brakes too. After all, you are approaching a corner and need to set your speed. Hard on the front makes the weight of the bike transfer to the front which is good as it makes the back of the bike lighter and therefore making it much easier to breakaway.
So far so good, the bike is out of line as you enter the first part of the corner. Now comes the hard part. You need to get the bike turned (leant over remembering that the more you lean the less grip you have) and release the pressure on the brake slowly enough that the tyre doesn't suddenly grip and highside you.
As you might have already worked out this is going to be easier to do on left-handers than on rights. On right-handers you will need to be able to get off the brake and into a knee down position as or before you turn the bike. This will be easier if you have a thumb operated rear brake. On top of all this you still have the front brake to control, the throttle, you need to looking into the turn, spot your reference points, set your body position as well as another half dozen other operating controls.
The other, 'easier' way is to over-rev the engine and use that as your brake. When you get into the braking zone rather than smoothly blipping the engine and changing down each gear with engine revs to match your road speed you just go for one big change and over rev the motor. This has the same effect as jumping on the rear brake and will cause massive rear end chatter if you just dumped the clutch.
The skill here is to feed the clutch out and control the slide and judder. If done right the transition from braking to power is smooth as you should be in the correct gear and revs if you did it right. The downside is you can over rev the engine to the point it will blow up. Remember that rev limiters only work on the way up the range and not on the downshift.
The other advantage of using the 'back-it-in' technique on the way in is that the bike becomes wider on the outside of the turn and could block someone trying to get around you. However, the inside of the turn is still wide open although you could get in tighter to the inside of the track if the whole plan worked out as you will be able to pull a very tight line.
Overall it looks very good but it is used less and less for road racing. But the backing it in Gods, Super Moto riders, use it to full effect and they use a combination of rear brake and downshifting.
So the ideal is to start to turn, this provides the lean angle to allow the bike to step out to correct side. Then brake using front and rear at the same time. And now downshift quickly and let the clutch out. See, it sounds so simple on paper…
You would think riders would figure out that when it is cold you need to warm up your tires for a few laps....
When Do You Release The Brake?
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Oh, let's not get into another trail braking discussion. We already have a thread for that.
What I was trying to get at is a way to release the brake while turning. Some might call that trail braking but I think it is something different.
To me trail braking is slowly releasing the brake after you have leaned the bike over. When trail braking, you might still be on the brake after you have reached your desired lean angle and would continue to release the brake well into the turn.
What I was talking about in my earlier post was releasing the brake pretty quickly when you turn the bike. The brake release is timed with how fast you turn the bike. So if you turn the bike slowly you would release the brake at that same rate. If you turn the bike quickly the brake would come off just as fast. Again the brake would be fully released when you reached your desired lean angle.
Some have mentioned a fear of loosing the front if you did this.
Can you think of any advantages it might have?