Cobie Fair
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Posts posted by Cobie Fair
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Racer,
I was simply commenting on some that I have heard complain that the reason they crashed was due to tires, when technique was really what was missing/not used/abused. I'll give you an example. At a recent school, a coach was leading a student, and the student crashed (the coach did not). It's arguable the student's tires were even better than the coaches, so that wasn't it. What was a major factor is it was cold on those days, and the track is almost all right hand turns. The crash (and every crash over the 2 days we were there) were all on the "cold" side of the tire. In this case, the left. The left side of the tire never really warmed up.
With solid technique, tires just don't all of a sudden give way, have a tremendously different amount of traction from one lap to the next. With solid technique, you get warning, usually lots of it.
In one of my earlier posts I commneted that Lonnie did like 30 days on a front tire. The tire was for sure not as grippy as new, but Lonnie is one of my fastest guys and regularly takes and trains racers at the schools. He got away with this because of his good technique, rock solid fundamentals.
But then, I work at a school, you'd expect me to say technique is senior to machinery
C
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[i'd like to clarify what I mean by "throttle control" as there is more than one way to think of that. The basic skill of cracking the throttle early and continuing to roll it on through the corner is not something I generally think about. After so many miles and years on the racetrack, it really is second nature for me. When I say that throttle control becomes more of an issue for me when switching to a bigger bike, I mean that, when I am riding at the very limit of traction (say with both ends sliding), sensing just how much more throttle I can add without highsiding takes a good deal of my attention.
For sure when pushing it TC (throttle control) takes more attention. One rule that doesn't get as much notice is TC rule number #2 in Twist 2. I've started paying more attention to this aspect lately, both when and how.
I'm gonna be mean and let you guys find it
C
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For sure it is a good idea to have good tires on the bike, no one would argue that. With good clean technique one can find the limits of the tire without having to risk life and limb. It's really the same skills with warming up a cold tire--progressively bringing the speed up to build some head in the tire. At the school for example, it's just not possible to even consider heat warmers, either on the coaches bikes, school bikes. I didn't even use them the last spring race I did, and it was pretty cold in the mornings.
I think some guys use this as an excues: "I crashed because of my tires." Well, I don't think they go off that fast, that hasn't been my experience with them. UNLESS, I change something, like adding more throttle, addling a little more lean angle, adding some more entry speed. But from just one lap to the next, I don't think it's a light switch.
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Good answers all. Hope we get a few more answers, like to see if turning, and turn location are the big ones.
C
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For instance, for me, visual skills tend to be a natural thing, and I think I'm pretty solid in my steering skills, hence, I don't really think about them. But, having raced mostly small bore and 125, when I get on a 600 or larger, throttle control is tops on my list! Make sense?
Yep, got it.
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Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?
Cobie
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I should get Will up here, he's way more versed. I do know some of the Michelin race tires (I think Pilot Power Race) runs low pressure, like 22 in the rear, and some of the new Dunlop slicks too, possibly even lower.
The coach bikes use take offs, and we run the heck out of them. Will says they loose drive grip, not so much cornering grip when they start to go. I think Lonnie had the record a few years ago with 30 school days on a front tire.
Best,
C
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I increased rebound damping 2 clicks, not much but just enough to see if I could make a difference. I think the reference points also helped me to know that I am applying maximum braking before the ripples and coming off the brakes as I enter the ripples. The shifting issue was me just being an idiot and not knowing what gear I was in.....Just sometimes catching to low a gear and getting the bike upset going down hill into an off camber turn. The slipper clutch is Awesome....Awesome.....Awesome. The clutch slips just enough that I stay out of trouble on the down shifts. I have been working on the throttle blip but sometimes I have an instant between blip, clutch release and back on throttle that is now a non issue with the slipper clutch. I hope to get better at this.
Thanks for your comments.
We might get you to think about clutchless downshifts at some point. Not everyone likes it, but for me it's easier, I don't have to use the clutch!
Regarding doing down the right amount of gears, there is something Keith told me (could be in one of his books?), and that was to count how many gears you go down for a turn. I've used this, and it's worked well, and pretty simple.
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Humm. Cobie I think you may be right. I believe Stu broke it and Tigert followed up with a bit faster lap (on a 600) recently. I know for a fact Stu has the lap record for a liter bike.
OK, sounds right.
I sure did like watching him turning the bike when he came out last, very nice.
C
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The R1 dudes were always leading, then balled it up and gifted the podium to others.What surprised me is how ragged the lead guys in the Superstock 1000 Cup racers were. Further, it seemed like it was mostly the R1 guys.
My first instinct would not be to see the coincidence of their falls and yours as indicative of some inherent mechanical design flaw with your new R1. I would consider the possiblity that the increased gymnastics and lack of podium finishes you perceive for the R1 have more to do with the same riders making the same sort of 'mistakes' or choices each weekend rather than the fact that they are riding the same bike each weekend. And that what is most common between their situation and yours might just be rider error.
So, rest easy. There is most likely nothing 'wrong' with your new motorcycle (that probably cost as much as a new car). And what is going wrong can most likely be easily addressed by attending a California Superbike School session soon!
(You can also take heart in knowing that you are in good company. Even world class racers make mistakes and just might have as much to learn as the rest of us about certain aspects of their riding.
)You guys know that we don't actually pay racer for all his nice comments...
C
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Adam,
A few things to look at: how much of the total braking with the front brake do? Can one lift the rear end with the front brakes alone? Of course. In that case, or even close to that, the rear will lock up very easily.
Would you rather use 2 controls or one, if one will do the job? In other words, would just using the front be simpler.
Modern bikes with their frames and suspensions should be very stable, unless something is fundametally wrong (bent frame, wheel, tires out of round/balance, out of alignment, etc.). The rider other hand, can make ANY bike unstable. And, on the subject of braking, the front brakes are the single most powerufl control on the bike. Definite technique in both stabilizing the bike, with or without the brakes.
Make sense?
Cobie
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Hey Stuman--do you have the lap record, I thought you told me another (Tigert?) had it.
Will has it on the old track, old turn 4, etc.
Do you have the fastest lap on a liter bike?
C
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I wasn't thinking originally of the rider's foot position on the peg, you've added a whole different look at this (a good one). What I was thinking was the position of the footpeg as it is mounted on the bike--like regular stock pegs, or rearsets.
C
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Great to hear about your success in the SA schools. I don't know if they are going to be able to bring the slide bike or not. I'll nudge Andy Ibbott see what he has to say on that. I expect it might be a bit of a logistical problem, getting it down there.
C
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Another thing I noticed about the videos, is that the riders consistently reach maximum lean angle, or very close to it, almost immediately, way before the middle of the turn... in other words, quick flick. So they can't be trail braking all that heavily.
If you compare it to the most severe cases of trail braking, like what they may do when overtaking in a braking battle, their normal technique and line obviously lies somewhere between that example of severe trail braking and the quick flick, but looks to me to be much closer to the quick flick.
It's seems to me that the advantage of trailbraking, and the reason why it produces the fastest laps, is basically common knowledge in most forms of motor racing - cars, bikes, whatever - which is mainly a later braking point. But I do trust experienced coaches who say their students go faster when they use it a lot less.
Good observation on the turning and connecting that to the braking. Watch Stoner turn the bike, he doesn't fool around, he gets it turned.
C
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I finally got a copy of Twst of the Wrist II from the library last night and randomly skimmed through it before reading Chapters 1 & 13... and now I think I see where Cobie is/was going with the front end and body position in this thread. Hook turn?
I also have to say that much of what I read so far really clarifies stuff I have learned the hard way or the long way over many years and many dollars of racing experience.
Man, I wish I had read this book when it first came out. I can't wait to read the rest.
racer--you got it mate. Keith and Dylan (who are doing the semnars these days) really go over that stuff nicely, and also the next class room, which goes over Pivot Steering.
C
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harnois,
You are right on target for what most of Level 2 is devoted to. It's broken down into the component parts, with the wide view being one of them.
C
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Thanks for posting the data on the helmets, nice to have the specifics. I wonder if the stuff really does deteriorate...and if so how fast.
C
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Cobie,
1. It isn't physical discomfort with the earplugs, it's mental. I feel disconnected and zoned out, like being on cold medicine. Honestly, the noise doesn't bother me, I like it, it's part of the fun of going fast. I know it would be better for my hearing to wear them, and I do wear them about 50% of the time, but I don't like them.
2. My helmet is about 6 years old. I've never had a crash with it, but if you're going to tell me I ought to get a newer one, I agree. I've been looking at new helmets on the web, I just need to make time to go to a big store to try some different models.
Regarding your earlier post, I did go back to Soft Science and found some info in the chapter on braking - the discussion of "speed memory" is right on target for what I am struggling with. I'm still working it out, but thanks for the suggestion to look there, it is helping. I have some track time tomorrow, we'll see how it goes!
Got it on the earplugs. I use them as it makes it easier for me to concentrate, especially with riders that come up from behind. Racer has put some data in, though I hadn't heard 2 years, I thought it was longer, so I'm going to call our sponsor KBC. They make a pretty good lid, I've had a few of my coaches by their own 'cause they like them.
Good on your for checking in Soft, I'll be interested to hear how it goes, let us know.
C
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Thank you,
there's one at Serres, Greece. It's not close to Hungary but it is to Serbia, where I'm from. They'll (...co.uk.) put the dates on the web site in couple of days. Can't wait!
Cheers
Nikola
Excellent, let us know how it goes after you do the school.
Best,
C
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Cobie,
I fit all of your requirements except one. I've never raced. I've taken two of the levels and number three next month, march 29 willow. Just throwing around the thought of trying out sometime in the future. So, what I really want to know is due you still give a person a chance, to try out, even if that person hasn't raced?
Thanks,
Aaron
Hi Aaron,
I will look at someone that has not raced, but it is preferred. Doesn't have to be a lot of racing in fact, but better if they have had that experience. I've even had guys attend CODERACE (as one races on each day there).
CF
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Survey question: How important is footpeg position to you?
My survey answer: I have short legs, so before Stomp Grip/Tech Spec (tank pads that help one hold on), having rearsets allowed me to hold onto the bike much better.
Best,
Cobie
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OK, lets see if we can get some guys to chime in here on a survey, so I'm going to start a survey thread on this.
C
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Hi And Thanks
in Cornering and Techniques
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