Cobie Fair
-
Posts
4,217 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
77
Posts posted by Cobie Fair
-
-
If you haven't looked at Keith's book The Soft Science, you might like some of what he covers in there. Everyone does have a sense of speed, and we work on that a lot at the schools (one of the reasons we use the no-brakes drill--make it easier to sample the speed). I'm not trying to get you guys to come to schools, I just want to point out this subject is a real factor in improving a rider's skill level: getting to the point he/she can get the entry speed desired, get comfortable with that, get consistent with that and then gradually bring it up.
Another thought: Looking down at the tach right before a turn, when your attention should be up ahead, that's something to consider with a bit of discretion. I only look down when I'm not pressed, when I'm not too busy with other stuff. The approaches to turns can get real busy...setting speed, dealing with traffic, braking and downshifting.
-
Personally, my first concern would be how well I could get anchored on the bike, and adjusting the pegs to get the best possible set up on the tank and knees into the tank. I have somewhat a hard time with this, as very short legs, and long torso. There are other adjustments that one can do (like raising or lowering the back or front of the bike) that can effect the weith bias and handling. Most of the Kawi's we have raised the back of the bike, and it's improved the handling.
-
Hey Racer,
Regarding your points above, if we could get some photos of guys that do put their upper body over the top of the bike, and compare that to guys that don't. Bayliss and Abe used to be really noticable examples, and Abe was famous in GP's for leaning the bike over further than anyone else (there used to be pictures of him scraping fairings).
C
-
I agree...lets get back to that....
OK, here is a thought for you guys---where is the mass of a rider's body, above or below the waist? With that in mind, what's more beneficial to have hung off? What different styles have you guys seen on this?
C
-
I understand. I needed to work that out for some closure (for myself) of my "scientifically speaking" deally deal there. I can see how it might be a tad much to swallow all at once.
The floor is all yours, sir.
Actually, I wanted to see what you guys wanted to cover. This thread had started originally on body position, what's better, etc.
C
-
Don't worry, I've already made up my mind to take the classes. Although I haven't signed up yet, I'll be at the May Pocono event. Might try to hit the NJ Motorsport Park event late in the season, too. Which class in the sequence has the lean bike?
Level 1 is the steering exercise, pretty critical for many riders. Level 2 we'll get you on the lean bike, we need to cover some of the later techniques in Level 1, to really have the lean bike be of maximum benefit. 2-day camps we can sometimes get it in later in the first day, but normally it happens on the 2nd day there too.
C
-
Racer, your post did make sense.
Here is what I was trying to do: get this onto more of a single subject at a time, as I think we are covering a lot of ground. Radius has been brought up, and I was going more in the direction of how the body effects what happens on the bike.
What do you guys want to do here?
Cobie
-
I remember seeing the fingers come off the lever and the throttle rolling on. And it seemed to happen a lot after the rumble strip/apex passed by in the background. But certainly I agree there is limited context and easily misinterpreted.
Here is an onboard lap of Laguna from MotoGP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFGjfe0ita0
You can pretty clearly hear the throttle coming on mid-turn very consistently,except the first double apex and the corkscrew. So there is no trailing passed the apex as far as I can tell except where there's obvious explanations for it.
Onboard with Rossi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0aE9tVyKYg
Once again, based on the engine sound, I don't see any examples of trailing passed the apex except where there are obviuos explanations, not even in the first lap when there is likely some other riders close behind.
More examples:
Onbaord in Jerez:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkLuqgrAo_4
mugello:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saRAvlipuMQ
And so on, every track is probably on youtube somewhere. :-D
Thanks for the links, hadn't seen that.
C
-
Kevin mentioned the same thing about Level III. I would LOVE to catch Level III first, but it just isn't possible.
I work a rotating 28-28 schedule (I am home for a month then down here in Brazil for a month). There is only 1 day between now and August when a Level III class fits in my schedule, but even it is the day after i get home...and it is on the other side of the U.S.
I compared my work schedule to the school schedule about 7 different times trying to figure something out and i simply cannot make any other school.
Grrrrr......................
Got it. We just had a Brazilian racer up here at our school in Vegas. We actually did some schools down there, the local agent tried to have it be a regular thing, but didn't work out. It's a long flight up for sure.
C
-
The front typically pushes with too much weight. The normal solution is to take some off with the throttle. The front can push too much due to too little weight. I lost the front on a 125 GP bike by simply coming into the throttle too hard, down I went. But that happens way less than the other--like rolling or snapping the throttle off in a turn.
Good so far?
Yes! One only needs to observe the antics of the stunters to see what happens at the extremes and there is plenty to learn from those guys even if its not "my trip."
I almost got into this deeper on my last post but waited. My thinking is this. The easiest way to "tune" the balance of rear and font tire force is a twist of the wrist (forgive the pun but it was me not Keith). No funky body positioning required so its doable for a mortal. But a circumstance like a top gear sweeper or a skid pad will not allow any acceleration. The rear tire normally has the components of acceleration as well as lateral load while the front only has the lateral thing to deal with. If acceleration is not possible then its a situation of pure lateral load. Then body position should be altered to match the tire patch difference between the front and rear tire, no?
Obviously, there is a sweet spot. I imagine that isolating that sweet spot in skid pad work might help with mid-turn cornering.
Maybe an upright torso is better in a high speed sweeper? That way you have your weight rearward and also get the benefit of wind loading the rear a bit, too?
Seems to me that the ideal is to have your weight back while on the brakes . Then move it forward to the 'sweet spot' in mid turn. Finally moving one's weight forward at the exit. However, one might need superhuman skill to pull this off without upsetting the bike.
Not to sound like a lame ad, but that is exactly one piece of what we sort out on the lean bike (in a skid pad). How much one can really effect the bike with adjusting their body weight, and compare that to say being able to stay loose on the bars (Twist 2 has lots on this for anyone not having done the school). Being loose on the bars (when one needs to be), is a vital, vital skill. If the wind pulls on you in a fast turn...and the rider is up, what's is he going to hold on with?
C
-
Cobie,
By "next March" I meant 2009.
I have a ton of track days scheduled this year, along with Level III. Then I will try to catch 1-2 track days in Feb of '09 and do the R.A.C.E. school in March.
Thanks,
Chris
Got it. To be honest, wish we could get you through L-3 before you had done a bunch of track days, but if it won't work due to logistics/time/money I understand.
C
-
Welll... there is increased cornering force compressing the suspension at higher speed/lean angles and vice versa.
Soo... then the rake would change between being leaned over more and less. Hence, the steering geometry would be altered, ie. the front wheel would be turned in more or less, no?
Aand... it would then seem to follow that the more weight biased toward the front, the more effect there will be...
Let's just look at one piece of this--rake: if their is more weight on the front, will that compress the front and in effect, steepen the steering angle? Will that then make it easier to steer the bike (let's say rider has not yet come back on the gas)?
C
-
More tracks is always a good idea, and you have some nice ones east of the Mississippi: Mid-Ohio and Barber to just name a few.
Don't know of any references on the tire's pressures they are running on modern GP bikes, if you find something let us know.
One thing I heard mentioned (somewhere else on the forum) was that the data from the onboard cameras where they show braking/accelerating is not taken directly from sensors.
Another point regarding the cameras, is even if you see the fingers on the brakes, how much pressure is being applied--and do some riders just leave their fingers there, when none is being applied?
C
-
Thanks Cobie.
I will plan on doing the R.A.C.E. School next March. I am scheduled for 10 track days so far this year (including Level III at Barber) and will add at least 2 more so maybe I will be able to keep up with yall by the time next March rolls around.
If nothing else, I will get some good coaching and experience at the school. The school will give me a good idea where I stand and then I will either proceed with getting my license or take what I learned in the school and apply it to several more track days and go from there.
Thanks for the input.
Chaos,
Just to verify, when you say "next March" do you mean '08 or '09? The '08 school is sold out though we do get cancellations. If you want to get on the wait list: 800-530-3350 or registration@superbikeschool.com.
For sure come and say hello to me!
Cobie
-
Juggler,
Are you jamming your leg up, doing a "calf raise" and also driving the outside leg into the tank? Did you get on the lean bike at Level 2, and if so do you recall what the coach went over when you got trained on that?
Best,
C
Cobie,
Thanks for responding. I am doing a "calf raise", and trying to drive my leg into the tank. With the tank being flatter on my bike, it's hard to wedge my knee against it. I didn't have this issue on the School's bikes (there was a better pocket).
I did get on the lean bike (actually, you were there), but don't remember the exact details.
I'll play around with this some more. Worst-case scenario is that I ask you about it when I see you at VIR later this year.
Thanks again.
--Alan
Alan,
On the lean bike, you would have been coached to not sit too close, so the outside leg can have a good line of contact with the tank. You might check this one point, even a little bit too close can get one twisted and not well anchored.
C
-
There are a few pieces to this, and we might need to get Keith over here at some point. I like to take one piece at a time, so here's one, but let's limit it (for sake of the thread at this point) to cornering, not straight line:
The front typically pushes with too much weight. The normal solution is to take some off with the throttle. The front can push too much due to too little weight. I lost the front on a 125 GP bike by simply coming into the throttle too hard, down I went. But that happens way less than the other--like rolling or snapping the throttle off in a turn.
Good so far?
C
-
I am doing the level 1 class on 5/19 with my bike and gear. I plan to do track days in the future.
Sounds good.
Now for the questions.What do I need to do to my bike? (water, safety wire, lights, tires, etc.)
Nothing special. Changing fluids not needed, we can tape it when you get there, tires have to be in good condition, or very good: We have smoking deal if you didn't know, just for students. We can only now sell to students that are signed up: $200 for Qualifiers, $250 for race tires.
What do I need for gear? I will have a full 2 piece 360 zip leather suit, within 5 year full face 1 piece Snell/DOT helmet, leather gauntlet gloves and racing boots. Do I need a back protector? What else do I need?that gear is fine, if it zips together. Back protector not required, but a good idea (we were 'em). Kinda like seat belts, a bit of a pain, but a good idea.
I look forward to getting there. I am going to stay at the track over the garage the night of the 18th so I can get a fresh start in the morning. Maybe we could meet y'all there if that is where you are staying.Do I need anything else?
Thanks,
Hank
PS.. Moved the questions to this topic.
-
I still street ride occassionally, and commute, but with so much track time so easliy available these days, it's the only place to really enjoy the sport fully, particularly with the modern bikes and tires.
C
-
Welcome to you both!
Not sure (have to get the map out) what's closest to you in Hungary, but the UK branch does a lot of schools all over Europe (and elsewhere), you could keep in touch with them. Here is there link (you can always get to it from our home page too): http://www.superbikeschool.co.uk/
Best,
Cobie
-
Craig,
That is as good as it gets, and REALLY glad to hear it!!
Best,
Cobie
-
I've done the L1 - L3 classes, and on the class bikes, I was really able to lock my knee into the tank. There's a really nice pronounced "lip" (for lack of a better term).
I have a GSXR-1000, and the tank doesn't have such a lip, and I'm finding it hard to lock in. I've got StompGrips on, but it still doesn't feel as positive as I would like.
I was looking at some video of some of the Suzuki guys (Mladin, Spies, and Yates), and it looked like they weren't really using their knees, but were just using their feet. I really liked the way the class bikes felt, and if there's a different technique, I'd love to hear it. I just don't feel as confident that I'm locked in.
Suggestions?
Thanks in advance!
Juggler,
Are you jamming your leg up, doing a "calf raise" and also driving the outside leg into the tank? Did you get on the lean bike at Level 2, and if so do you recall what the coach went over when you got trained on that?
Best,
C
-
We used the South Course once, it's fine, but the AMA uses the North and it's a hoot, a fave amongst my staff.
Best,
C
-
The issue of speed hasn't really come up at the school, it's to the sanctioning body to determine/decide that point. A few years back I heard (but didn't confirm) that a local track required a certain lap time to race, if you couldn't make that time, you couldn't race. It's certainly the same in pro racing: if you don't qualify, you aren't going to race in that class.
We do prep riders for racing in this school, a totally different focus than our normal schools. We also race at the end of each day (always fun!).
It's not required that you have raced of course, that's the purpose of the school: to give you a taste of it, or to tune you up if you already are racing.
We have only ever kicked one guy out, he was just being a little to frisky with his passing, and making a bad pass when he had been specifically warned not to. That was long ago, and really the CODERACE schools have been a treat: lots of riding, lots of coaching (1 coach for 2 students--max), some excellent training that we just can't do anywhere else. Like the brake training drill: this shows exactly how good on the brakes a rider is, and we work on him in depth (complete with radar graphs of his braking, compared to our top dog that day).
There can be some fast guys, but most are in the middle somewhere. As I hinted at, we love doing them as much as the students.
Best,
C
-
I have ignored a critical point regarding turn radius vs cornering forces, ie. if hanging off allows you to use less lean angle for the same speed, what happens to the turn radius? Will it remain the same?
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/Phys...cles/u6l1e.html
From: Equations for Circular Motion
Fnet = m * V2/R
So, it would seem that, in terms of force, speed and radius are proportional. If the throttle and velocity remain consistent, then radius must also remain consistent.
Hmmm...
But ... the rolling radius of the tire changes at different lean angles, doesn't it?
If the body position is changed, it effects the weight front/rear, and can this then effect rake (by lowering/raising the front)?
C
Incremental Increases In Entry Speed
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Racer,
Thanks for the apology, I really do appreciate that, as I was a bit taken aback by your response. I certainly never meant to give the impression that I wasn't listening to other ideas, or that I think my old helmet is any better than anyone else's. I just don't like using earplugs - even well over 100 mph I am more comfortable without them.
Hotfoot---2 questions:
1. What is it about earplugs you don't like? Comfort? What kinds have you tried? Foam, custom molded?
2. You had also mentioned your old helmet, just curious if that was a figure of speech, or you really did have an old helmt? How old is it?
cobie