Cobie Fair
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Posts posted by Cobie Fair
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If under downshifting there is a front tire skid, how is it happening? The front won't skid unless the brakes are being used (front brakes). Sure you aren't feeling a rear wheel skid? Or, as mentioned earlier, doing sometihng with the brake lever?
Best,
Cobie
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I'm waiting on a CSS staffer or instructor to OK this... if you're not a staffer or instructor and would like this material then reply to this thread so the CSS team know theres interest.
Regards
JasonBW, Wollongong, Australia
Hi Jason,
First off, thanks for asking, I know what you are referring to. Normally these references are given out AFTER the schools to students, so someone could remind themselves, go over in more detaial, etc. Since this comes from our diaries, and is copyrighted, let me check with Keith before we give this out, but I don't imagine a problem.
Best,
Cobie
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Hi all,
In Twist II, Keith and Doug talk about not charging turns in order to set up for the turn and regulate turn in speed etc. and ultimately bring down lap times, keeping it smooth and controlled.
Its not that I don't agree with this, I do, but in a race situation, when you are approaching a turn and going in smooth and controlled, how would this stop a competitor taking your position, by charging and out braking you to the turn?
Even if he/she did stuff up their entry speed and actually "slowed" you down, they still end up in front! (providing they managed to hold their line and not run wide)
How do you keep this controlled technique in a racing situation and still defend or even attack other riders?
You see a high number of pro riders on TV who look to be charging turns in order to gain positions.
Once again, I am NOT disputing the technique, I just want to improve my racing and follow the 'Twist way' without losing or not gaining positions.
Thanks in advance.
Alan,
OK, take the competition out for a moment, and you are just going for a fast qualifying lap. What will get you the best time? Ultimately, if guys charge you see a lot of mistakes: most of them have the result of late on the throttle, and what is the result of that?
Cobie
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Kevin and nicenezy's replies are excellent. I'll share my experience.
I was very new to riding when I took level 1 (after MSF and ERC with around
2000 miles under my moto belt). It was intimidating to see long time street
and track riders in my class. There were students with less experience
and no track experience too but like Kevin said, the gap between new and
experienced can be big. But everyone was there to learn - I didn't feel
like it was a competitive atmosphere at all. And the ride coaches offered
valuable lessons and they do watch out for you out there. After level 1,
I went back 9 more times
I'm glad I took the classes early on in my riding life because I didn't have
a lot of bad habits to break (I heard this among some long time riders).
And I learned how to ride and handle the bike better. MSF and ERC
could never offer me what I learned at CSS.
Wendy
You have sure worked at it, and your riding shows it
CF
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Thank goodness!! I remember the kidney-shaking section all too well!
yeah, it would jar your fillings going at a good clip!
CF
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Hey All,
I heard from Keith that they repaved that bumpy section at Pocono---won't that be a relieve. It was very entertaining to get through there quickly (yikes).
Cobie
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Hi Lachie,
PI, one of my favorites, and welcome aboard! Nice to have the Aussies here
Cobie
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As the rider goes through the wet patch, the rider needs to be on rolling on and have the bike standing up as much as possible for that corner/speed combination.
- so he/she needs to be locked on, back in the seat, cheek off, body :- down, forward and to the inside, eyes locked onto the exit target and rolling on. If possible, doing the level2 last session "pushing away" so the bike is even more stood up.
Pretty thorough answer! One point I was looking at is how to get that right weight bias on the tires? Most guys don't think that all the way through, and realize the adjusting the bias is done with the throttle.
Getting the suspension in the sweet spot is another key item.
CF
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The whole backing it in, honestly seems like a fad that is fading a bit. A few years ago when Rossi and Nicky were teammates, Rossi suggested that Nicky not do it.
If the rear wheel is in the air (possible on any modern sport bike), what exactly is the back doing? Also, what's keeping the bike stable?
CF
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OK, we are pretty agreed that being in the brakes isn't going to help the traction picture, but how exactly can the rider get absolute best possible traction for this situation? There is keeping the suspension in the sweet spot, but how about also keeping the exact correct weight bias on each tire, how is that achieved?
CF
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This picture is taken going into the front straight (from Turn 12) at Willow. I feel like by pody position is good, but maybe I should be pushing the bike up more? What do you think?Lookin pretty good, but I think you are right, picking it up a little more will give you that bit extra.
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Yikes! I typed a long reply and lost it
Short version, Racer has described it fairly well on upshifting--simply roll off the throttle, and at the peak of the roll off upshift. The only real don'ts on this: Don't preload the shift leaver! Don't stomp on the lever, and if you miss a shift and get a false neutral, don't stomp on it until the RPMS come down.
Downshifting is matching the engine speed to the rear wheel, done with a blip of the throttle (small one), after you let the RPM's come down a little. Easier done using a little front brake at the same time.
Both of these are trained on our Control Trainer (that was the reason Keith made it). If you come out to the school, or we have it at one of the races, you are welcome to use it.
Best,
Cobie
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Thanks for the welcome Keith, maybe I'll see you before the AMA races in Ohio at MotoGp @ Laguna!
Brian,
Nice to have you aboard!
Cobie
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We may be close to agreeing on everything except the definition of countersteering. I may be wrong about the slow speed slowly induced turn and will be happy to admit that after I get a chance to try it again.
In the words of 'whats his name' , "I'll be back".
Excellent. Not everyone is willing to do the experimenting. I did my own on a bicycle a few years back, that's when countersteering came to light for me. Letting go of the bars, leaning hard right, the first thing that happened was the bars countersteered (turned left). Intesting thing was, while going around a right turn, I couldn't turn sharp enough, and had to reach down and countersteer more, as I was going to hit the oppostite curb.
Let us know what you get!
Best,
Cobie
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Thanks Cobie for your input, I do blip the throttle but at low RPM the clutch makes it smooth, I will try it
without the clutch and see what happens.
Are you saying that it is possble to elimate most of the clutch useage apart from stopping?
Good input on the throttle, I take the free play out of the cable, and then roll on the throttle
smoothly when I feel the tension, but an adjustment here may help.
But that first crack open of the throttle is a very very small movement indeed on the CBR.
It's seems like a worth while investment to use your bikes at your school, and find out exactly
how the bike needs to be setup. Sinice I live in AZ that may be the best way to go anyway.
I need to check the school schedule to come work with you guy's.
Thanks. James.
Yeah, come on out and play
Will (our chief mechanic) has the bikes working very well, he really stays on that. But the clutch play thing can be a preference. Some like no play (like Keith and I), others like some play, like Will.On some of the bikes the mapping for the fuel injection is not as good as it can be. The older ZX-10 was a little more abrupt, but the 6's are perfect.
As for the clutch, I virtually never use it after taking off from a start, and sometimes into 2nd gear. If you let the RPMs come down a bit, then you don't have to blip as much. That's correct for the track too, use the brakes to slow it down first. It can take a little practice, but can be done smoothely.
If you come out to the school, I can take you aside in the parking area and work on this with you, problemo.
Cobie
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Tim,
You are wrong on point number two.
The bars do of course move right, but the bike leans left, as soon as the bars are relaeased it will stay at that angle and go through the turn. If the bars aren't released, the bike will keep leaning.
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In the article, it says that Robbie Kasten (the inventor) believes that he can trim the weight significantly from the prototype.
The problem is that these rotors may not be legal in many racing classes, so it's hard to see how they'd catch on (and their usefulness for street-only bikes is less obvious).
-- Ulrich
Well, if they work that well, you'd think the factories would give them a shot in the GP classes.
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I agree that not using the clutch at all is an advantage on the track, and this works well
when you can keep the bike in the high RPM's.certainly a 600
can be kept at very high RPM's. Riding like that requires space, and a known good surface.
Your comments are certainly directed to track riding.
Also the slipper clutch is standard on most bikes today, so clutch slippage is built in.
Part of my observations are that the sports bikes are realy designed for the track.
Thanks. James.
James,
Just to clarify, I use the same procedure for street riding, and riding in the dirt. Shifting up is easy, just rolling of the throttle for a moment. Down is only slightly harder, requires a little blip. It's harder on big twins, with big flywheels. Haven't ridden a Harley in a while!
Now, how about that throttle response on your CBR? One reason I ask, is for some is was the way the throttle cable was adjusted. I take all the play out personally, makes the transition easier for me.
Cobie
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Ulrich,
Thanks for that. I wonder if it will pay off in the end, the weight saving's compared to the improved handling.
CF
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One could spend a lot of attention using the clutch and to how much gain? Pretty much all the coaches at the school don't use the clutch up shifting, some don't even use it downshifting. I'd for sure have a hard time trying to modulate it going fast, nor would I want to take my left hand fingers off the bar. Don't know of any pro riders that do it (maybe some do, but I don't know of it).
On the trottle response being abrupt---is this a mapping issue? The ZX-6's are terrific, I'd assumed the Honda was pretty good, but maybe it's off?
Best,
CF
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Tim--just to clear this up, what is your understanding on how you steer a motorycycle, from the practical standpoint, what do you do. Lets say at 30 mph.
Cobie
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Hi,
I'm from Germany and a BIG fan of Keith Codes books, read each of them and learned a lot.
I'm on the racetrack - with some breaks - since 1978 (not kidding...) - and since 1999 I join regulary about 6 to 8 raceevents a year in europe.
I dreamed all day to join the SUPERBIKE SCHOOL one day. Now there is a chance to come to Laguna Seca in march 2007.
Do I have to join Level 1 in the first day and Level 2 in the second? Or is there a chance to go 'faster' through the levels and get the information from Level 1-4 in 2 days?
Juergen from Germany ( riding a Zx6R since 2003)
Hi Juergen,
Each level takes a full day. Even when we train top pro racers, it's done the same way, and you wouldn't want to jam 4 levels in 2 days. Level 1 is not beginner, it is the most important stuff first. You won't have to go slow or anything, but we are very firm with the passing.
That being said, I don't know if there is room at Laguna Seca, it might be sold out. Please contact the office right away. If you can't do Laguna, maybe one of the other schools, like in Vegas or at the Streets of Willow Springs.
Best,
Cobie
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Here's the scoop on this: sometimes we can do this, but you can't count on it. Reason being, the bike is often used for 3 different riders (at a regular school), and the majority use street patern. Changing it all around on a schoold day can get very hectic, so in the end, we can't promise this.
Best,
Cobie
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Welcome all of you! Nice to see you up and posting.
Front Tire Skid
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
James,
There is a really good chapter on braking in Twist of the Wrist 1, chapter 8, even has drawings on the downshifting part, might want to check that out.
Best,
CF