Cobie Fair
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Posts posted by Cobie Fair
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I know that Dylan sends up some tweets to the site, that's one place to check, but figured we'd get this older thread idea some use.
Just finished a 6 week tour, complete with a new track (NOLA). Overall, went very well. Dodged some real weather. The best story there was in NJMP, students showing up, astonished we weren't soaked to the bone, as they had just finshed driving through 2 hours of rain. Dry at the track (OK, we got maybe 25 drops for the literal of you).
NOLA was interesting...fast and grippy! The coach tires got a real work out, amazingly so. Nice facility, long track in perfect condition, it was a little warm to be true, but students seemed to enjoy it quite a bit (as did we).
More to come...or, if you were there, feel free to chime in.
Best,
Cobie
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Thinking about the question of peg weighting when leaned over at speed, the best explanation of the effect on traction that I can come up with is the 'box' analogy I mentioned on the previous page. Hopefully this diagram will better explain my reasoning:
Thinking at extremes makes it easier for me to understand, so imagine that the rider in the above picture is right on the limit of traction. If you look at the angle of the outside peg to the tyre contact patch - it's basically straight on top of it. If I can use the 'box' analogy again - weighting the outside peg would be the equivalent of pushing down on the top of the box, which isn't very likely to make the box slide along the floor.
But if you look at the inside peg, any weight there will practically be pushing at the contact patch from the side. This would be the equivalent of pushing on the side of a box - it's going to slide along the floor.
Does that make sense? What do you think?
It's entirely possible that I have it completely wrong as well!
definitely makes sense and the picture makes it even more plausible.
If we separate the lock on part from this question and just look at the weighting, since both pegs are connected to the frame, doesn't that minimize the importance of where the weight goes?
CF
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The really nice discovery was that the bike was more stable and held its line perfectly without further input.
This is something I've been struggling with lately. Once turned in I know you are supposed to release pressure and the bike will hold its line. I think that this has worked on all my other bikes but my current one, Aprilia Shiver, wants to stand up as soon as I release pressure from the bar. I discussed it when I did level 1 and Glen said some bikes are like that and gave the example of the Ducati Diavel.
My question is: Is there a way to work out whether it is a handling characteristic of my bike or a problem with the squidgy bit on top of the seat (me)? Adding throttle as per TC#1 seems to help, I think, but the area where I notice it most is going downhill. This is really noticeable for me as I live on a large steep hill and have to negotiate all the turns through the estate every time I go out. It feels like when I release the pressure on the inside bar that it starts coming back towards me and doesn't want to stop until I apply more pressure to hold it in its tracks.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks,
Dae.
Does it hold a line when on the flat, and with the throttle rolling on? Does it just do this going downhill and what is happening with the throttle at that time?
CF
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With the bike leaned over and with any decent speed (say over 50mph) how much will it matter which peg is weighted? Both are connected to the frame...any engineers want to take as stab a this? (try to esplain in real English for the geometrically challenged).
CF
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Today I went back to my roots, so to speak. When I first started riding, on 200 lb 100cc bikes, I used to ride straigth as long as possible and just flick the bike on its side. Nobody had instructed me to do this, it just felt natural. And it allowed me to see further around blind corner.
After two years of riding I went from a Honda CB100 to a CX500, a bike that needed lots of force to turn rapidly. It also had more power. So my "style" changed to either use rounder lines due to needing more time and distance to change direction, or to brake hard and late, make the corner short and fire out again. This was mostly the way I rode until 2005, when I worked on braking earlier and getting on the throttle sooner. This is the way my brother used to ride always. He's also suffered lots of front end slides, and now I do too. If not lots, at least far more often than when I turned in on a bit of brakes.
However, today I began the quick flick thing again when riding my old Honda VT500 Ascot. I did it even around shallow corners where I used little lean. I stayed upright much longer than usual and used just one quick steering input to bring the bike rapidly down to the desired lean angle. The really nice discovery was that the bike was more stable and held its line perfectly without further input. I know it's described in Code's books, but it was good to experience it (again) for myself.
Good to hear!
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Got a suggestion we pin this topic, so here we go.
Level 1: everyone starts there. Not because it's for beginners, but it has the most critical information first. All the top pros that go through the school start with this level. This doesn't equate to beginning, or you will have to go slowly, it's more key foundation material.
We often get the upper level students (been through level 4 a number of times) requesting to go back through previous levels.
Level 2 build upon 1, Level 3 upon 2, and Level 4 we create an individualized coaching program--which require the previous levels to fully grasp.
Hope this helps!
Best,
Cobie
PS: if it doesn't, post your questions, or call the office.
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OK, gonna stir the pot a tiny bit...does it matter for weighting, if it's the inside or the outside? Does the bike know the difference from the standpoint of weight trasnferred to the rear?
CF
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Hey all. My name is Tom and I hail from Salt Lake City, UT. I just finished a thrilling and very informative weekend at Streets of Willow Springs with the amazing CSS. I took Level 1 and 2 and can not wait to get back in 'school' for Level 3 and 4. I can honestly say that i'm 10X the rider I was before this school. I enjoy a couple track days a year and about 10K of street riding in my favorite canyons around my area, which are plentiful. I do my work on a 2002 Honda 954rr, which I fell in love with even more at CSS.
If anyone is ever in my area I am glad to recommend some rides that will peak your cornering interest as well as some less well known eateries around the valley.
...until we chat again keep the rubber side down and the throttle control precise!
td
Welcome and glad the school went well.
Now for the critical info...what are the good eateries when we get back up to Salt Lake in July?
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Hi Deep,
It will be interesting to see what you discover about steering. If the tires are good (not worn square), the bike should hold a nice line after turned in...but check this out for yourself, let us know what you observe.
CF
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Hi all, long time lurker. I've decided to go with Tech Spec for my VFR that may never see any track use. Can't seem to find a good place to get it, Stomp grip is every where , maybe for a good reason but Tech Spec seems like it might be more forgiving on the install. Thanks! Dave
Hmmm...I sent a note to one of our guys to see if he knows.
I do like more grip than the Tech Spec personally.
CF
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Timmer,
Good overview, and nicely put (even I could understand it).
CF
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We saw this again at the track, and in this case it helped his position on the bike.
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I have the Force Field proctector, love it.
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This simple tip has improved my riding experience...I'm not looking at the top-inside of my helmet anymore!!!I The increased visibility has improved my sense-of-speed and identifying reference points while riding through tight/technical corners. It took me a few days to get used to the new material while the foam-blocks broke down a bit...but its been great in my Shoei and AGV lids. I'm Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I wanted to say thanks.
Cheers,
Majdi
Glad to hear it and sure don't mind keeping this in view
.We had some real success with this at the last school: a very experienced student was suggested this, and he was stunned at the difference. One thing we have noticed is it is often the "cause" for poor body position.
CF
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Hey Timmer,
Do you guys make one for the S1000rr, and if so, what would the application/use be for it?
CF
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While in India, we did a few laps at the end of the last day all the coaches on the rental bikes, and one of the organizers. He binned it in the first lap (easy slide out), and fortunately didn't get run over by a few of the coaches. The name of the bike is Apache.
Can you guess his new nickname?
CF
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Does the telemetry bike still exist?
Not sure what you are referring to...Keith did some work on the video, but we haven't had one at the school.
CF
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For sure there isn't a one size fits all on the braking, but having ridden big Harleys that did not have top quality brakes, 4 fingers was needed. On modern sport bikes, 2 will do it for sure and most find it easier to blip with 2 fingers on the throttle.
CF
OK... gotta know... is there more to the story about the big Harleys? Do you have a collection of dusty leather vests in your closet?
Can you see me wandering around in chaps, goatee and bit of belly? I'll leave you alone with that pleasant thought.
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For sure there isn't a one size fits all on the braking, but having ridden big Harleys that did not have top quality brakes, 4 fingers was needed. On modern sport bikes, 2 will do it for sure and most find it easier to blip with 2 fingers on the throttle.
CF
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Glad you are aboard Lloyd!
Best,
Cobie
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That looks pretty nice...
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SV's are fun.
Silly lean angles, and a good rider on a tighter track is hard to beat!
CF
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I think there should be one for Lyle here--he exceeded the traction limit of his tires recently if you know what I mean, while braking. I'll ask the boys, see what they think...Pete, where are you?
But it's dropped out a bit lately...he hasn't worn the hat. Maybe he'll bring it back this winter.
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I think there should be one for Lyle here--he exceeded the traction limit of his tires recently if you know what I mean, while braking. I'll ask the boys, see what they think...Pete, where are you?
Saving Your Bacon
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Here is one, happened recently: driving from VIR to our next track, NJMP, narrow road in Virginia, no shoulder (maybe a foot).
Older gent pulls up to the road at the stop sign in a small sedan, slowed almost to a stop. We are in a mini-van fully loaded, 6 coaches, 2 asleep, doing about 50 mph.
The gent does a left turn right in front of us...our driver (a coach) did a hard right/left and accelerated, went right around the bumper of the duffer. Braking would just have made it worse.
The 2 asleep coaches banged their heads on the windows, but no more drama than that...coach attributed this save to the Wide View exercise in Level 2!
CF