hubbard_28

OK, so do you have a recommendation on diet for a track day? Sorry, Cobie. I've been wasting my time entertaining Racers comments, and haven't responded. First, I don't know what everyones trackday experience is like. In the severe heat here in Phoenix, we sit in the pits in the shade, and huddle around the swamp cooler or hit a friend up for a couple minutes in their winnebago to try and stay at least somewhat cool. We don't have any buildings to escape to. Then we do our time on the track, get off bike, drop our suits, and repeat the process. The weather is severe, so a lot more water is recommended. This Sunday in mid-October is going to be 95 degrees. And I had no intention of starting a petty argument with Racer, but for the sake of people reading, please know that the information he attempted to distribute is completely unfounded and incredibly ignorant. Don't worry about potassium or the "roller coaster" ride your body goes through when you digest sugar. It happens during every meal of your life and with every sugary snack you eat or drink, and will continually do this throughout a normal persons lifetime from beginning to end with no problem. Unless you were training for endurance events, there are only a couple things you would need to do in order to ensure your body is at adequately prepared to help you make it through the day. The night before you might want to "carb load." Some complex carbohydrates to help your body store energy. That's exactly what it's doing. You're putting gas in the car. You also want to hydrate. I have a problem that I get really excited the night before a trackday, and if I get up to pee, probably won't go back to sleep. I do know the importance, though, of adequate hydration. If you start off your trackday in a shortage, it's not going to get any better. DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL BEFORE A TRACKDAY!!! It dehydrates you more than you would think. There a chemical released by the brain that maintains fluid balance in the body, called Anti Diuretic Hormone (ADH). ADH is there to keep you from just peeing away all your fluids, and its release is limited by the brain when it senses we have too much, to keep us from swelling up and popping. The reason we urinate so much after we start drinking, is that alcohol inhibits the body's release of ADH so we're urinating whether we are dehydrating or not. Quick summation: DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL BEFORE A TRACKDAY!!! Eat a good breakfast. Eat a good breakfast. Eat a good breakfast. During the trackday, just remember to stay hydrated. Drink fluids. During the long trackday Gatorade type drinks are good. Simple sugars for that quick boost of energy, sodium to replace that loss. I would bring something like a candy bar, but they would melt in the heat. I have a couple sodas through the day. Simple sugars and sodium. I also have my spicy peanuts to help with sodium intake. It needs to be realized that if we lose sodium and water, and replace only water, it's actually a bad thing. It doesn't take a lot of sodium, but it does take some sodium. If you just drink water, that's fine, but if you start feeling weak, dizzy, have a HA or muscle spasms, skip your next session, have a seat, and eat something salty and drink water. Fluid can't go into your cells to hydrate them unless there is sodium, no matter how much water you drink. If it's not as hot where you live and you don't sweat buckets, and during the cold winter months, you still need to be hydrated, but the sodium I keep stressing will probably be found by the body in foods (when you eat), and I would say just stay hydrated, and leave it at that. Don't preload with sodium. Unlike carbs, your body doesn't just have stores of sodium laying around to be broken down in times of need. Eat throughout the day. Put some food in your belly. Whatever electrolytes, fat, carbs, your body is losing, your body is going to collect to replenish from the food. That statement should also hint to you WHAT to put in your body. I like the candy bar and soda, but the wiser choice would obviously be fruit. DON'T BE ON YOUR DIET AT THE TRACK. Your bodies requirements are completely different when you're exerting yourself, or sitting out in the heat. I tried not to make it too long and keep it simple enough that some points can be remembered.

Sorry. My credentials. I served as a combat medic in the US Army, and in that time have trained soldiers to be able to handle the rigors of 12, 25, and 100 mile (this one was over a period of days) roadmarches, and how to combat dehydration in -20 degree weather. I've trained, and trained with the likes of the Special Forces and Rangers. I've been a registered nurse for 13 years, specializing in cardiology (where the likes of potassium, sodium, magnesium, and hydration are critical), renal (again where potassium, sodium, magnesium, and hydration are critical), ICU (again.....) and am currently an ER nurse in one of the hottest cities in the United States.

This statement couldn't be more wrong. Yes, I corrected myself above. Perhaps you missed it. As for K being insignificant... I'm not a medical doctor or even a health professional. And I only know what I was taught in mainstream university 25 years ago and what was published in JAMA in the 1990's when I was researching these things for my own benefit. And no I'm not going to search for footnotes now. I'd suggest that folks who are concerned about this topic should do their own research and that the best data is probably not going to be found on a motorcycle racing school website in any case. That isn't to say good data can't be found here, merely that unless someone wants to post their qualifications, CV, and relevant peer reviewed research, well... you might take it with a... erm... grain of salt? <g> r Your information is wrong and potentially harmful to the health and welfare of others. Potentially harmful? Well that sounds like pretty darn important information. Will you please be SPECIFIC about which information is potentially harmful?! Being a medical professional, I would think getting that data out would be more important to you than the schadenfreud of telling me how wrong I am... ? I am of NO MIND on any of this matter and am patiently waiting for you to stop telling me what a bad and harmful person I am and start telling this website your credentials and some useul data.... LIKE A GOOD DIET FOR TRACK DAYS? HELLO? Waiting? GLADLY! My point precisely! Erm... and we're still waiting for that professional advice... ??? If you can't or won't speak directly to the subject, perhaps you can point us to some peer reveiwed research on the matter? Thanks, racer Uh..... you're not reading my posts. I've posted advice..... I realized that you can't be very bright some time ago, but even you should have been able to figure that out...... Please tell me you're not this dense..... You have me at a loss with your lack of knowing, willingness to learn, or ability to admit you are wrong..... And yes, the information you've given is potentially harmful. Read a book. [Throws his hands up in frustration]

This statement couldn't be more wrong. Yes, I corrected myself above. Perhaps you missed it. As for K being insignificant... I'm not a medical doctor or even a health professional. And I only know what I was taught in mainstream university 25 years ago and what was published in JAMA in the 1990's when I was researching these things for my own benefit. And no I'm not going to search for footnotes now. I'd suggest that folks who are concerned about this topic should do their own research and that the best data is probably not going to be found on a motorcycle racing school website in any case. That isn't to say good data can't be found here, merely that unless someone wants to post their qualifications, CV, and relevant peer reviewed research, well... you might take it with a... erm... grain of salt? <g> r Your information is wrong and potentially harmful to the health and welfare of others. It does matter what is read in any site because of the damage that can be caused. You can see it in the replies that you've spurred by your comments. My credentials are more than enough that I'd suggest that you were incorrect in many different ways. I never said that potassium is insignificant, only that it is not important in replenishing during or even after a long day at the track. SODIUM IS!!! You seem to be of the mind, whether you've corrected yourself or not, that if one thing (sodium) is good, then another (potassium) is better. It's a very, very simple and incorrect way of thinking. And again, potentially harmful to others. And I would gladly post my credentials (or qualifications) if it would mean that some of the people who are less educated on this topic would listen to me over the bogus information that you've provided. I would argue the point of your JAMA reference as well. I'm here to learn, and by your posts, would concede that you probably know more about motorcycle riding than I do. Leave the medical advice to the professionals. Please.

You're scaring my, Racer. The things you're mentioning are either insignificant (not trying to start anything) or not complete. Let me simply clarify this, and I'm sorry if it seems disorganized, but I just got off work, and am typing off the top of my head. I just explained this to a new diabetic a couple hours ago. Sugar in the blood is useless without insulin. The body uses glucose in the cells as energy. In order for the glucose to get into the cells, they have to bind with insulin. That's why some diabetics have to inject themselves with insulin. They're body's don't produce insulin, so they help it out. The other one's, the "roller coaster" types are almost always going to be obese people who DID beat their body up with tons of junk, and inevitably develop insulin immunity, but this is after years and years of abuse, and tons and tons of ###### food. Most people who go to the track aren't the people who are going to have to worry about this sort of thing. Well..... excluding the 300 lb guy who tools around our beginner group on the 450 dirtbike. He's fat, and I'm SURE lives a sedentary lifestyle outside those 8 hours 4-5 times a year. A couple of sports drinks aren't going to hurt someone as active as a trackday rider.

This statement couldn't be more wrong. In acute fluid loss, like that in perspiration, you're not going to lose any significant amounts of potassium. Sodium is released and water follows sodium, and so many things happen that is potentially damaging to every organ in your body with prolonged, gross amounts of perspiration that you NEED TO REPLACE SODIUM and water. The bulk of potassium is inside your cells, and the little that is lost in sweat isn't harmful. At all. Even with a full day of activity. Potassium loss can be monitored, controlled, and regulated by the kidneys. With sodium loss in perspiration, there is nothing to regulate sodium in the body because it's being expelled to help with perspiration. It HAS TO release sodium (that's the white stuff on your clothes under your arms and down your back). As a matter of fact, loss of sodium with perspiration is even more tricky because as you lose salt and water, the body can't register the proper amount of water being lost due to the equal amount of sodium being lost, and you might not get the signs of thirst because the sodium/water ratio in the body remains equal even though you're losing all that water (because you're losing salt). And increased sodium to water in the blood sparks the thirst feeling we all get because the water level is low. Yes, in the long term blood pressure is raised by increased sodium intake because, like I said, water follows salt. So if there is an increased amount of salt in the blood, there is going to be increased amount of water, but short term, and if you're exercising and/or perspiring, you won't have to worry about an abundance of water or sodium because of the sweating factor. Bottom line is that if you have a choice between salty peanuts or a banana at the track, you NEED TO choose the salt. Period. The banana will do nothing but make you look like a monkey.

OK, it may seem like a silly question, but do riders ever end up with a different body position on one side versus the other, or is it the point of getting the same position on both sides? Also, whenever someone talks about the lean bike, they always say "when you're ready" or something of that nature. How does one tell when a student is ready for the lean bike? Does it have something to do with just being a new rider, and not being as comfortable leaning the bike as much?

No. I'm merely stating that hydration itself isn't considered fitness. We're talking about fitness, and hydration in itself doesn't have anything to do with that. Training the body to manage itself in times of stress is a fitness point. The body actually tolerates prolonged activity if it is habitually placed under duress. I was somewhat on a soapbox when I mentioned the treadmill walking, water drinking folk. And yes, electrolytes for the time we spend on the track. You won't find me at a trackday without heavily salted peanuts. Sodium is another key component to hydration.

No. I'm merely stating that hydration itself isn't considered fitness. We're talking about fitness, and hydration in itself doesn't have anything to do with that. Training the body to manage itself in times of stress is a fitness point. The body actually tolerates prolonged activity if it is habitually placed under duress. I was somewhat on a soapbox when I mentioned the treadmill walking, water drinking folk. And yes, electrolytes for the time we spend on the track. You won't find me at a trackday without heavily salted peanuts. Sodium is another key component to hydration.

When I found a consistent, fast(er) pace due to improvement in body position, I was riding Firebird East. It's a right heavy track, and I have a position that is what I consider to be a good basic position to work on. I started doing trackdays on Firebird West, and my last trackday was there. I was psyched because if I can hit those rights with confidence, think of what I can do on a left heavy track. Not the case. My position was sloppy, and I ended the day with a crash (minor), my forth and fifth fingers on my left hand being numb for a week because I was pushing my left hand into the bar, and the knowledge that I need a lot of work on the left heavy tracks this fall. I kept tucking the front. I haven't been able to figure out what I'm doing wrong on my left hand turns. After this Sunday they're going to stop using East for the fall to set up some Santa World thing that they set up in the pits and on the straight that will go, surprise, through Christmas, so after Sunday I'll have plenty opportunity to practice. I promised myself that my next East trackday I was going to work on RP's for a couple corners that I'm rough on, but there is a good left there that I'll be able to try a couple things on. I'm dying to attend the 2 day school, and when my financial situation improves I'll be there, but I won't be able to make it this spring like I'd intended. I keep seeing tennis in my head. Not that I am into the sport, but they're always hitting the ball to their opponents backhand side. They work on it until they're just as good on backhand as forehand (?). I think at my level I'm probably better at backhand for now. I'm going to have to do a lot of studying before the 26th when I'm doing Main, which is a left heavy track. I'm assuming that I need to do the same thing going left as I am right, but is there any difference? It was eerie that I couldn't mimic the same position and get the same results. Maybe just practice is the cure? And I think you just have to click on the little faces on the bottom to get the smiley faces to pop up.

During road marches etc, your body was definitely in a dehydrated state, regardless how much water you were drinking. That explains us being thirsty after prolonged exertion, and dark colored urine. I did 25 mile road marches with the 101st, and doing it in 10 hours placed a stress on the body that it couldn't correct without rest and rehydration. So much muscle is damaged during something like that, that it's not just the point of whether or not we were still urinating, but the body needing to repair muscle and dispose of the muscle waste, acids released by the muscle, and so forth, and this all requires hydration and time. When we did 12 mile road marches 1-2 times a week, our bodies became more able to dispose of waste, repair muscle, and rehydrate cells more easily over time. When I was losing the abundance of water at the track, even though I drank 3-4 gallons of water, my cells were dehydrating, blood thickening, and all the "garbage" was floating around my blood system, making it harder for my body to function properly. During training, my body was able to "practice" for times like that, and I was able to endure it for longer periods than my friends who don't work out either at all, or at the level I do. I know they had forced water drinking sessions and canteen checks, but without rest and replacement of electrolytes and more fluid, you were dehydrated. I see it all the time at work.

I don't know if hydration itself can be considered being "fit," but being able to tolerate a certain amount of dehydration would definitely fit this topic. It always makes me near violent when I see people running on treadmills or doing stair masters whilst sipping water. I have bad knees from the military (be all you can be) and am cursed to running on treadmills, and 2-3 days a week on my days off, I run for an hour doing anywhere from 7-8 miles. I'm covered in sweat and dripping buckets, but the loss of fluids helps my body be able to cope with stress, and better compensate for dehydration, even if it's just in small doses. It falls under endurance. If any of you are one of those people who don't allow your bodies to learn to manage moderate amounts of water loss, stop it. When I was doing a trackday in 112 degree weather early August in Phoenix, and all my friends were calling it a day after being in the heat for half a day, I was still able to throw in some (albeit slower) laps through the whole day.

If women can compete with men in motorcycle racing, then why don't they? The one that rides in AMA is nowhere near being competitive. In one race a couple years ago I believe she just fell short of being lapped by the last place male rider. I think there would be enough worldwide evidence proving my side of the argument if we looked into it.

In sports requiring everything I noted above, it is totally a gender thing. A woman can't get as light as the male pro racers and maintain the same amount of muscle. You can try to convince yourself otherwise all you want, but you can't argue with nature. And aggressiveness can be defined in many different ways, and I didn't mean specifically in motorcycle racing, or in the hostile sense, but more toward boldness.

There are some sports that women can't compete in the same category as men. Sports that require strength give men the advantage because when both of them are at their peak, men are naturally stronger, faster, and more aggressive. I'd assume that is just as relevant in motorcycle racing.

Fitness is very important. Endurance, ability to withstand crashes, healing, tossing the bike around more efficiently. They are all affected by fitness. I trained this spring when I thought I was going to be racing for about 2 months pretty hardcore. I ended up doing a trackday only, and whipped around the track and was ready to keep going at the end of the day. I got sick and then threw my back out, became lazy, and late summer was brutal. I wasn't in shape to be doing trackdays the way I did in the spring. I'm starting my workouts tomorrow (got held up tonight) and know I will see the difference again.

Got it. Upper body more to the inside, that'll work. C Yeah. I still glue my chest to the tank, and even though the rider coaching me said I'm still not in the ideal position, it's something I can really work on specifically for probably the next few trackdays. What makes it feel even more secure is taking that pressure off the bars. His question after I told him my next statement was "why were you looking," but it's weird not seeing the other side of the track. I mean in my periphery when I say this. I've also got to work on feet pressure. A couple trackdays ago I punched my foot peg through the sole of my boot. Probably shouldn't be pressing that hard.

Sorry, I posted twice as well.

My first accident last weekend was at the end of the day when I wasn't even trying to go fast. I was working on body position and my lines, and went into a corner too hot. I started running wide and dipped the bike to try and push it through, and the peg started grinding. I had to pick it up because even with the peg scraping I was going toward the rumble strip. I ran off the track and made it through the rocks, but (and I was down to about 15-20 mph) there is no way to keep it up in 6 inches of sand, and I went down. I guess you can chalk it up to being tired and hot. In the great city of Phoenix it's still getting over 100 degree's on a daily basis. I did a trackday in August in 112 degree's, and don't think I'm going to be doing that again. Ran through 4 gallons of water and 4 gatorades before 2:00. I'd say most people who don't high or lowside just get their head up. It's easily noticeable in the beginner groups, but most of the time if a track newbie is going in hot or another rider passes them and their not ready for it, they pick the bike up and look in the direction the bike is going. Every level of rider does it, but it's lots easier to notice in the beginners. All day I was getting stuck behind the same rider, and with his liter bike I couldn't take him on the straights. He was slow on the corners, but took his lines just well enough that it would have been dangerous to pass. He kept looking back at me and it was getting irritating. Oh, the things I was yelling in my helmet. I went up to him and asked him if he could just let up on the throttle for a second going into the straights and I would cruise right by. I consider him to be the first @$$hole I've ever met at the track due to his response. "You'll just have to get past me." So I did. He was quick to start braking after the straight, and I can late brake like nobodies business. The next time I went by that corner he was still on the side of the track just sitting on his bike. My friend wrecked when he was following me and we had somewhat of an incident with another rider. We were going into a big 180 left behind another rider that goes directly into a pretty tight 180 right that leads into the pit entrance. There is a short straight (that comes out of the corner I would later wrecking in) and the rider pulled up in the straight and stuck his leg out. I tried to dip under him, and for some reason he decided to shoot the bike right in front of me. I pulled up and in the middle of the corner he stuck his leg out again. AGAIN I tried to pass, and he cut into the right hander. In the middle of the right he put his leg out and I just went wide to get around him without any more problems. When I came back around that corner there was Javier with his bike on the side of the track. Turns out he was trying to go wide with me and got into the glassy part of the track. If the track hasn't been ridden in a while here the sand fills in the cracks and it's just as bad as water. He lost the back end and went down pretty hard.

One problem can be (with hanging way off) holding onto the bars. That can create some real handling problems with the bike, we see that a lot at the school. Some guys can do it, but it has posed problems for many (tight on the bars). Tons of data on this in Twist 2 (do I sound like a broken record with that? Cobie I've just advanced my position more, and it required hanging my upper torso farther off the bike, and quickly came to figure that I could get lots of pressure off the bars in a turn by relaxing my inside shoulder. I just let my shoulder and elbow drop and the bike pushed itself around the corner perfectly. Even compensated some for track imperfections. The difference was day and night.

We didn't have a photographer, but my friend got a shot of me after spending a day working on BP. I had a racer helping me. I also had my first wreck shortly after this photo was taken. Nothing big. Dumped it in some sand.

I have Performance Riding Techniques sitting right next to me, and love it. I don't know if just reading a book will do it. A great thing to do is watch races. There are plenty of helmet or bike mounted camera video's on the internet you can watch also. You'll notice a pattern and be able to actually see what you've read and watch it being applied before you try it. Applying that with the late braking, changing your corner entry points, and apexing in some cases, will be very helpful, because when you pass going into a corner, the most popular spot, you won't be able to use the whole track and hit the passing corner with the same speed as usual. If you have it, TIVO races and watch the passes and where they pass. 250 GP has close races with a lot of passing. I know where I should pass, and practice getting inside on riders, but am not that aggressive because I don't want to ruin anyones trackday. My last trackday was with the racers prepping for the next day racing, and I was able to get inside of a few of them. I really worked on late braking and getting up beside them then focused on slowing down to get into the corner properly as I was not able to use the whole track and hold the same line as usual. And remember that you haven't really successfully passed them until you get around the next corner and are still in front.

Higher entry speed is where i am trying to go, how do you do it... go i faster, 1. do i need to change POT, may be earlier?? 2. should I experiment with trail braking? not too comfortable with this one, dont have good feel for the front 3. Do I get more agressive on the gas once i finish my turning? 4. Do try a different line? Speed for me is relative, and i add very little of it, in my opinion I need work on point # 3 get more agressive on the gas once I finish the turn, just wanted to get everyones views. My competitor is on very different hardware, he is racing a 2007 CBR600rr with every HRC part on it, and he is also comfortable with trail braking. A couple of your questions sort of come together. Changing your POT inevitably mends with trying a different line. If you're making good time coming out of the corners, doing that could screw up your exiting. Type I corners are key because of the drive out of them, so working on something else is probably better. You could look at changing BP earlier after hard braking to set up the corner and be more comfortable keeping more speed going in. If you don't know about or don't practice "blipping the throttle," it's something you could definitely work on, particularly in corners that require downshifting. In an entire track this will give you tenths of a second. You loose a lot of speed when downshifting if you don't do this, and that alone could be where your speed goes. MotoGP lets you hear the racers do it, and you can hear it frequently. It COULD just be SR. On a track I've been riding most of the summer, there are two corners that riders love to go into way too slow when they're fast corners. One combines straights where the second straight ends in a slower corner, and is an 85-90 mph corner that the people in my class come off the throttle to go into. Almost every single person. They take it at 70-75 mph. I practiced with on a trackday with riders who were warming up for a race the next day, and the newer riders were even doing it. It is a corner that allows me to make up great time on them. A couple corners later is another one. It's a left followed by an immediate double apex right, and so many people are scared to just throw it into the left, because they're setting up for the rights. They have a hard time understanding that a fast left will throw them into the rights and let them launch down the straight after. Having the problem with the speed is probably the hardest thing to overcome if that is the problem, though.

I'm the opposite. I always come off the throttle for some reason. It's taking a lot to get to be able to keep on it. I don't know when it started happening, but suddenly it did.

I couldn't stop laughing at the sewing machine comment. I don't know how much I have on you. November will be a year that I've been doing track, and before that I was never a canyon rider or anything of the sort. I commuted. It's practice and attention to detail. Without leaning off the bike, the peg or a hard part will quickly become an indicator of the bikes max lean angle. You can lay the bike on its side, and it's going to give you the exact amount of how far you can go. I spent a long time fighting the bike, and the more I got off the bike, the more comfortable I got. And just going faster around a corner had nothing to do with my improvement. When I tried that on a couple trackdays I nearly lost the fight a number of times. It had everything to do with positioning. My hands, thighs, feet, shoulders. And it continues. Be VERY careful on a track thinking that just going faster will be the answer. Especially in the corners.