faffi

To those who have ridden a lot of bikes over the years - if you took the best sport motorcycles from yesteryear and put them up against the current bikes of the same size but less sporty, fitted them with the same tires (where possible) and sent them around a race track, which would win? I'm asking because people have told me for quite some time that modern bikes, even budget bikes, are so much better than the stuff just a decade old. In my experience, my FZ07 has suspension no better than what many bikes could offer in the 80s, so I do not buy this. However, I could very well be wrong. So what if you teamed up something like these pairs, do you reckon the latest would beat the oldest every time? Or would it be the older sport bikes taking the honour? 1992 CBR900RR vs 2017 CB1000R 1993 GSX-R750 vs 2017 GSX750S 1994 ZX-9R vs 2018 Z900 1994 FZR600 vs 2017 FZ6R 1994 916 vs 2017 Multistrada 950

We got some winter here and I took my Virago-come-scrambler out for a spin. Hard work! I have been riding a lot on winter roads on bicycles when growing up, as well as 3 winters on motorcycles before, but this - at about 530 lb - is by far the heaviest two-wheeled vehicle I have taken onto snow and ice. The tyres didn't impress, either, and combined with my limited skills when it comes to playing made things less than elegant. But at least I got to spin up some figure eights for the first time in my life, although they also proved the expected lack of talent. Still, I had fun, but during my commutes I stay away from playing since the front tucks every time the rear starts to spin up - I'd rather stay upright than topple over trying to look cool

That is impossible to answer. If the large wheel meant 7000 rpm, the smaller wheel would give 8600 rpm. If the engine had a torque dip at 7k, it may be able to go faster with the smaller wheel at the same throttle opening. Same if the load his high, like climbing a steep hill, you would likely benefit from the extra rpm and resulting extra power to give a small increase in speed. Another thing to consider is mapping; 50% throttle will not give the same amount of fuel at high rpm as at lower rpm, meaning mapping could be better or worse if you increase rpm for any given speed. However, for most engines the extra energy required to rev higher due to more internal friction, you would not go as fast with the smaller tyre - if you have an instant fuel consumption read-out on your bike (or car) you can see how much more energy is required to go a certain speed in a lower vs a higher gear.

Other than the slip between tyre and road, the engine is mechanically linked to the tarmac. By that it means that for any given speed, rpm is constant for a particular gear, regardless of throttle position. Let's say you need 5000 rpm to go 60 mph in 4th gear. Regardless of where the throttle is, be that full off or full on or anywhere in between, you will have exactly 5000 rpm at 60 mph in a straight line. Unless the tyre is spinning or the clutch is slipping. Now, if you lean over, the circumference of the tyre is reduced. This has a similar effect to lowering the gearing. But while lower gearing mean that the engine must turn more revolutions in order to get the wheel turned a certain amount of times, now the wheel must turn faster to maintain the speed, bringing the engine along with it. This could probably be explained much simpler, but as long as you remember that when the engine turns over X times it always makes the tyre turn Y times in gear Z. A smaller wheel must turn faster than a larger diameter wheel for any given speed, and so the engine must turn X+n to compensate.

The original Ninja 600 sans fairing - thanks for sharing.

They do it to lower the CoG, which again makes it less likely for the bike to wheelie.

I think we should satisified we are both basically unhurt and ready to do it all over

Note that I am miles from any kind of an eggspert, so do not put too much weight on what I'm typing. However, having watched the video several times over, this is what I noted: - Could it be that you apply throttle like a stepper motor? Several places during the video, it sounds like the engine goes eh-eH-EH-EEHH in steps instead of gaining speed gradually, like you would expect with a smooth and even continuous throttle application. This could of course be down to your engine's natural response and/or the sound pickup. - It seems like you apply throttle a bit eagerly just before you crash, making it sound as if the rear is spinning up. Then the rear begins to overtake you, and you give it more throttle, likely a result of being whacked by the bike and not a willed reaction. My guess is that you came on a little strong on the throttle just as the rear wheel was on a slick patch, either from extra standing water or something with the surface itself. So a combination of poor timing due to bad luck as these things can be impossible to spot in the wet. The good thing is that you are OK. And you also shout NOOO much shorter than me - I keep going

I have had my share of road crashes. Mostly due to riding too fast for the conditions. Monday two weeks ago, I had another, this time caused by a low sun in the face, a slightly poor choice of line followed by a rapid steering input to make the corner sharper in order to get a good exit line. When I went down, it was totally unexpected as the speed was not aggressive at all, doing about 50 mph. Upon inspection, I had made the steering input on top of an oil spill that also continued as a streak that followed my trajectory precisely. Although not happy about the crash, it was good to understand the why. My NOS AGV GP PRO sacrificed itself and kept my head safe, and my leathers protected my skin. After sliding along the asphalt, I flew over a small ditch and into a banking where I made a big impression, before being tossed back, helicopter style, onto the road. The helmet took 3 hits, two of them quite severe. And for once the bike took the brunt, not me. Had the bike been OK I could have ridden away, but this is the end of my son's old bike. I took a pillion ride home on my own bike instead, motored by the son who's bike got totaled. And I could go to work the next day. My new helmet is a Shark Spartan Carbon, because it fit me even better than the AGV (it's the second GP Pro I have cracked), is lighter and has an integral sun visor. Also tried a Shoei, but that are as painful today as they were 10 and 20 years ago - totally wrong for my head-shape. The point of this? Just to show that it is important to always wear good protective gear; a snug fitting quality helmet, gloves with knuckle protection (my knuckles were swollen, but whole, thanks to this feature) and a suit with padded added protection. Something I expect the majority of members here using all the time.

Not sure why this rider is so much faster than the others, but I enjoyed watching how easy he makes it appear.

Thank you for sharing your insight, Hotfoot. I've never thought about the bars moving when being hit by gusts, but since the bike is often blow off course that seems quite likely.

The handlebars move a lot and quite violently. Not unusual per se, but quite strange for me to see it also in virtually straight line riding. The few times I've filmed myself, that doesn't happen to me, so I guess it's down to me being slow, but it would be interesting to hear why all the movement in the front.

Better aerodynamics primarily.

MOTORRAD tested a ZX-7R (so a long time ago) stock and with 4 inch riser. Eveybody went significantly faster through the slalom tests with the taller bars. The less experienced riders gained more than the experienced racer. After doing a ton of laps, pushing himself to his limits, the racer finally managed to set the fastest time around the race track with the stock bars - it was a pride thing for him - but it took a lot more effort to ride with the lower handlebars. Take a look at the handlebars used in the early Superbikes AMA days. Pretty tall and especially wide to gain leverage. Now look at the handlebars of Kenny Schwantz' RG500. That's a bike only 285 lb light, yet Kevin still had wide and tall bars compared to most of his competitors. In my humble opinion, you would love moving the handlebars up.

This is the sort of weapon they use in the national competition

This week the annual national shooting contest is taking place, and I see an analogy here towards modern racing bikes. I do not shoot, nor am I particularly interested in guns, but I noticed that two shooters had 249 points from a possible 250 during the pre-qualifications, while 15 shooters in total will go the the final tomorrow, all with 246 points or more. Throughout history, starting in 1893, nobody in Norway have managed a perfect 250 score during the qualifications - the woman who leads missed by just 2 mm on a 15 cm large "10". They shoot from 300 meters, on time, kneeling, standing and laying flat. While the task is simple enough (aim and pull the trigger) - like riding a motorcycle with lots of rider aids - but the execution is very difficult if you want to win, and the tiniest miss have big consequences.

I agree with that, but this also makes it harder for a rider to make a difference, hence the rider must push closer to the edge of disaster. It was not possible to ride a 500GP bike to its limits every corner of a race because the bike wasn't predictable enough. But if a rider had a lucky day combined with enough bravery, he could win even if not the best rider. Today, you must be inch perfect and if you make a mistake you cannot just close your eyes and open the throttle to make up that time again - provided you didn't get tossed off in the process. Modern racing demand new qualites, but is in no way less challenging if the goal is to win.

Eggsaggly! And I suspect it is harder to be at the front today than it was 40 years ago, when you could compensate for poor skills with big brass cojones. Take a look at Redding, who was instantly battling for the win riding a 500GP two-stroke for the first time. "I got a good start to lead through Eau Rouge, but this was my first time on the track on two wheels, on a bike I only slung a leg over ten minutes beforehand," revealed Redding. "The rest of the guys rode yesterday, so they had a bit of an advantage in the opening laps, but it didn't take me long to get a feel for the bike and to figure out the lines. "I managed to push my way back up into second and then had a great battle with Steve Plater over the last few laps. In the end I couldn't quite find a way past him before the chequered flag, but second place isn't too bad for my first outing on a 500GP bike!" http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/193303/1/redding-rides-exkevin-schwantz-500cc-suzuki.html

Not sure if these links are helpful to you or not https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/lifestyle/use-your-rear-brake-motorcycle/ http://www.sportrider.com/riding-skills-series-using-rear-brake#page-2

They will not lose skill with electronics, but they can now perfect it because the bike will be more predictable and easier to control. But that also means that they must ride consistently closer to the ragged edge to be competitive. If we go way back, the rider would have to shift gears with a hand operated lever, use his foot for clutching, had no front brake and the throttle was similar to a choke control and would not return when the rider let go and had to be manually adjusted both ways. In addition, the oil pump had to be manually operated by hand, and the same with the ignition timing, meaning the rider had to search for optimum performance without causing pinging. Suspension was at best some girder-like thing up front with friction damper and a sprung seat in the back. What we see today is just a natural progression that began with automatic oil pumps, automatic timing advancers, foot operated gears and hand operated clutches, front brakes, hydraulic suspension at both ends and continued to this day where we see lots of further aids to make the life of the rider easier so he can focus more on the road and his speed than keeping the bike rolling. That I'm no fan of throttle by wire and traction control and whatnot is just a sign I am outdated, intimidated by the complexity and also frustrated that my romantic view of heros trying to tame wild beasts is being broken. However, I am positive that you could give any bike ever raced and hand it to Marquez or Stoner and they would be able to hustle that thing faster around a track than any other human in history. The level of the current crop of riders is higher than ever before. Would Hailwood, had he been young today, still been at the front? No doubt. The best will always rise to the top. But he would have had to work a lot harder for it than back in the 60s. And so say he who really doesn't have a clue about what's he's rambling about

Doing so will also overwhelm most humans - there's just too many things going on at once. I cannot even begin to contemplate what it would take to keep a bike in line when accelerating with 270 hp on tap while leaned way over and trying to modulate the power with exact use of the rear brake at the same time. Mind-boggling. Which is why I would be proud to get within 30 seconds of a gp-rider around a track. Very proud. Because I doubt I would be able to. Especially not with a gp bike - I'd most likely be faster on a CBR600 or something like that. But still very slow.

Again, it could be due to poor wording on my part if you took this from the translation. But you can shove the bike more upright if you toss yourself into the corner - the force required to move your body will have a counter-force, and this can only go into to bike. So the bike goes one way and the body the other.

If that's the case, it's an error of mine. Tried to find it, but couldn't. Rider in line with bike, bike and rider leaned 47 degrees. Bike leaned more than rider, bike 57 degrees, combined 51. Bike leaned less than rider, bike leaned 46 degrees, combined 51. Since it was late and the story very long, I simplified as much as I could to save myself time. No need for extra prose But I could no doubt have spent more time perfecting the English if I had been arsed

"They are crazy" http://www.crash.net/motogp/interview/283337/1/exclusive-lorenzo-bortolozzo-brembo-interview.html