ktk_ace
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Posts posted by ktk_ace
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A little late to the party but,
A technique / drill of sorts that I use to practice keeping weight off the bars under heavy braking which could help in downhill situations is 1 handed panic braking. With only one hand on the bars any force applied will result in a steering input and the bike veering right, but if you can actually support all of your weight with your core you can brake nearly as hard with 1 hand as with 2 and keep the bike in a perfectly straight line. Having stomp grips or some other type of traction pad on your tank is massively useful for this, and obviously this is something you should try in a safe location until you're quite comfortable with it, I started out just trying to keep my left hand about a inch off the bar while braking and gradually increased the amount of braking force I would apply. Now vice gripping the tank with my legs and supporting myself with my core as soon as I hit the brake is pretty much muscle memory.
Tyler
Im on a scooter and I discovered a trick thats similar to anchoring the lower body and keeping the core and arms loose...
use the tip of your shoes to push against the front footwell while the back of your butt(or is that pelvis) push against the height difference "hump" onthe seat , it forms a triangular " friction lock " . (most scooters dont have gas tanks that permit leg grabbing/anchoring)
Bein tiht on the handlebars is an SR too...
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Some racers assert you can steer the bike by putting pressure on the pegs. Keith developed the no-BS bike and effectively disproved this notion.
It has to do with bike geometry (COG , rake angle)
but seriously , the steering input , steering rate + turn point is completely fubar imho .
Not to mention you'll get booked by the cops if you do that ... its dangerous riding
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A long wheelbase is gonna handicap you on short twisties ... fat tires are gonna affect your quick turn rate AND effective lean angle ...
I'd recommend a 600-750 race bike with 1350-1410 MM (tops) wheelbase plus suspension tuned to your weight and super sport tires (dunlop Q2's) if you wanna be serious running short/medium twisties .
If you are a real scientific (and light , <200 pouds ) guy who looks at power (both torque and hp) to weight ratio , the duke 690 / street 675 R is a very potent overall package.
lots of new / 2nd hand JDM 600-750 class bikes fit the bill too! (CBR600 /GSXR600 /ZX 6R/ R6)
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Sounds awesome!
Wish i could scrounge up enuff for a school day or two~
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Didnt crash= great bike AND rider stability, esp rider psychological pressure resistance
I get harassed alot on open roads in my woods, I have to keep my absolute zero degree cool and slice like a molecular cutter when the chance to overtake / get away appears ...
Good to set a goal thou, practice against yourself first , and for race bikes, chat up the top 3 riders and see what hardware they are running.
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Lots of good advice! thanks. I've been playing with the traction control on the 1198, and was wondering why I still could'nt make the turns coming in hot. I guess I was relying too much on it. The guys Im riding with have smaller bikes, and even some hyper motards, and they seem to be crankiing through the turns harder than me?
Smaller, lighter-weight bikes (assuming they have decent handling) are able to corner faster than bigger heavier bikes just because of physics; a heavier bike is subject to greater cornering forces due to its higher mass (Force= mass * acceleration). The higher cornering speed is what attracts some riders to very lightweight bikes like the little RS125, or lightweight supermoto bikes.
Lots of riders that are new to track riding have made the mistake of trying to follow a little bike like an RS 125 or Ninja 250 through a corner and ended up in the dirt! Those little bikes might be slow on the straights but they'll eat a liter bike for lunch in the corners. They can change direction faster (better quick turn) and they can carry a LOT more speed into and through the corners.
Your 1198 will unquestionably be at a disadvantage in the corners - especially DOWNHILL corners! Compared to smaller lighter bikes, you will not be able to enter the corners as fast as a smaller lighter bike. With a sensible entry speed and good throttle control you can gain a bit back but mainly you'll just have to wait until the corner EXIT (and the straight sections) to use all that horsepower to your advantage.
nice insight!
I remembered on a downhill trip, a ninja 1000 actually waved to us to tell tell us to overtake him ... come to think of it what a gentleman, he sure knows his bike's pros and cons!
PS,the smaller wheelbase + thinner tires sure help alot for turn radius and quick turning
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Its next to impossible to help if there is no pictures.
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ktk what kind of camera are you using?
As for mounts I tried the mounting stuff that I bought for my GoPro but was not very happy. It seemed that it was more for bicycles rather than motorcycles.
I have since switched over to Ram mounts. http://www.rammount..../Default.aspx#/ So far so good with them.
I mcguyvered it using duct/double sided tape and twistie wire, gonna get a mount that fits on my side mirror imho
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Im not sure if my vidoe can help but... here it is
http://forums.superb...3773#entry31721
my 2C, im not sure of its 100% , take with a grain of salt...
for simple normal banked 90 degree 2 lane turns just before a a straight
before the turn :
1)get your speed right and stabilize the bike's suspension by giving it a bit of rear brake first then front combined 0.1-0.5S later (preferably on small/no lean and trail braking )
Honda's Combined -abs works this way, i just sample and adopt it as it works for me , YMMV
2)find a good turn/ reference point
3) dont trigger any SR's
4) 2 step method + quick flick the bike onto the turn, one steering input per turn if possible
5) maintenance throttle if needed to keep the suspension in the sweet spot . YMMV
During the turn
1) look where you are going , eliminate excess rider inputs and dont set off SR's
2)smooth throttle roll on if necessary as soon as you see the exit of the turn , YMMV on banked/unbanked turns
the aim is to keep the whole suspension system planted and in the sweet spot
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Took it some time back while still recovering from the flu, just got the chance to edit it and upload to youtube.
Its super shakey as i taped and necklaced my handphone "rig" to my chest (jacket) and the roads here... lots of uneven surfaces
some notes:
1:19 >uphill climb starts with a 90 degree slight banked left and left hairpin followed by right hairpin
1:52-1:55 >hard left to right transition (fast flick , i think i did a grade 7 steering rate (10 being world champ) there )
4:21 : 4:43 >multiple slow speed hairpin turns
4:21 - 4:49 > hard uphill left to right transition
5:55 - 6:00 >hard left
6:03-6.06 > hard left, mid turn corrections(incoming car, too near the double yellow line)
8:08 >begin of mountainpass descend
8:26 > multiple medoum speed hairpin turns
9:21 -9:28 banked medium to hi speed hairpin
9:53 -10:10 multiple left/right flick turns
11:13> 11:16 hi speed unbanked decending left turn
bike:
stock engine 9HP at crankshaft , modded CVT running on stock exhaust, front disc (stock caliper + GG sintered pads) rear drum (aftermarket pads) setup, revalved front damper rods with 20W oil + 40 USD after market rear shock X2
average speed : 15KM in 13 mins = 69 km/h , no hanging off (just a guesstimate )
road quality/lane: coarse with patches of new "humped" tarmac and manhole covers in the middle of the road /corners , 2 to 1 lane and 1 to 2 lane mixture with cars parked sometimes on one lane roads
experience: 12000 KM of CSS styled riding(self taught , book+dvd) ~
track experience : none
any comments on how to take a better video (fixing the rig/gear/tips) and constructive comments on cornering/how i can improve are most welcome!
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I personally:
-stick with 75% of my capabilities.(i lower to 60 if i sense something is amiss, more buffer on public roads)
-dont be overconfident (from a scale of 0-10 , be a 9)
- go for a ride during the early/late hours of the day, less traffic = more of the 10 buck to use on checking on mistakes and correcting them + building solid skills
-make sure my body (both physically and psychologically) is prepared for the ride , no matter how long or short. (hydration, nutrition and good rest)
-be humble, let your skills do the " talking "
-ride everyday if possible (even if its a 5-10 min grocery run ) so as not to become "rusty"
just my 2c
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I cant gauge where I am in the turn sometimes. Meaning the apex and exit dont register since my perception changes once I am in the turn causing me to have a minor brain fart.
But Csmith. You are right, after my initial steering input is done, I need to hope back on the throttle!
But what would happen if you hesitated and not gotten on the throttle as fast? Would you in turn overload the front if the learn angle is very low. (more lean = less margin for error?)
if your cornering forces < gravitational force (that is, 1G) at large lean angels ...
its feels that you just underloaded your tires... but thats just me, someone has a more scientific/well put answer?
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unfortunately, learning something new requires you to sample the track your self on your own bike.
If you are a real techie like me, i'd get a friend along and follow you and video tape you from your back.
else its still youtube videos of slower riders (who have good lines or you can pick out their mistakes to avoid making them yourself)
imho tech now can only make you make smaller mistakes and avoid bigger ones.
Effort and education will lead to perfection (or near) imho
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why roll on only at the apex?
read the book/dvd and you will find the answer inside imho...
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Sorry to hear about the crash ThomasDark...
Thanks for the reminder, gotta revise the DVD's and book, im getting abit rusty too due to less than ideal weather in my woods
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ktk_ace, can you make an on-board video and post? Would be interesting to see.
still trying to get a camera on my bike, $$$$ is my main hurdle ...
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The discussion on trail braking seeems to come up on the forum about once every six months. If you do a search for trail braking you will find tons of results. Here are a couple, for example:
http://forums.superb...+trail +braking
http://forums.superb...king#entry25553
And here is something Keith wrote in response to a question about trail braking, it pretty much covers it all:
>>>
On trailing the brakes...the first thing you need to realize is that you should always be trailing off the brakes. Leaned over or straight up, your brake release is that moment where your entry speed is being set. Any abrupt release is going to be less accurate and usually slower than a well executed, tapered, gradual release.
As we watch world competitors we see brake trailing but not everywhere and not all the time. In addition, the idea of trailing the brakes 'to the apex' has almost completely been abandoned in favor of earlier and earlier releasing of the front brake lever. Why? So they can get back to gas. One of the reasons James Toseland couldn't cut it in MotoGP was that he was taking advantage of the ultra high tech handling, brakes and tires and trailing the brakes in late. Later than everyone else. At Laguna Seca, for example, he was on the brakes 2 to 3 meters longer than Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa. That put him in about 15th place, from my observations. Just a tiny bit of time, really just hundredths of a second per turn, was enough to do it. His drives off the turn were as good as anyone elses.
The reality of the situation is that any bike will continue to slow even after the brake is released and the throttle is being opened up. Depending on the corner at Laguna Seca, between 12% and 37% throttle is needed to even begin to bring the speed upward. Here's another way of saying it: the bike is still slowing down after brake release and, in some turns, the speed doesn't begin to increase until up to 1/3 throttle. It is very interesting to see this from the data acquisition I have which was collected from the winning bike in Daytona Sportbike there this past year.
When I first described and showed trail braking in the original "A Twist of the Wrist" book back in 1983, it was the first time it had been photographed and graphed out for motorcyclists. It is a must-do technique for decreasing radius turns. Those are the kind of turns it makes the most sense to begin experimenting with it, for someone who is trying to get the feel for it.
What I find most interesting is that once the rider's feel for the bike is up to the point they are confident enough with all the other basics to begin to experiment with their riding, you don't have to even mention it, they begin to find the places to apply it quite naturally.
There is much, much more to the subject of brking. Many things happen with the bike and the rider depending on what kind of corner it is and whether they are finishing the braking straight up or leaned over.
There is a strange misperception in the world that we tell everyone to finish their braking while they are straight up and down. The truth is, in the 32 years of the school we've never said that in any of the briefings.
As a coach, if you are following someone and they are dragging the brake way down to the apex and you clearly see they could be on the gas much earlier, what should you do? Tell them to keep that up, or, ask them to release the brake earlier and get back to the gas?
On the other hand, if you see someone getting in too hot, you could suggest that they trail the brake in. You could. However, if you also see some other basic technical skill that is lacking, the smart coach would go after that instead. For example, if you see someone trailing the brake and slowly turning the bike causing him to run wide, what would you have him work on? trailing the brake more and continue to add lean angle, or, demonstrate for him that if he got the bike flicked in a little quicker he wouldn't have that run wide problem?
There is a balance to all of this. If the rider isn't comfortable getting the bike turned quickly, it influences many core-skill aspects of their riding in the negative. This is where we put our attention at CSS. Once the rider can genuinely turn the bike with no fear (because there is no reason to fear it) then we have a major hurdle overcome and we can move on to other techniques, if they will be a benefit.
We know of some very high quality riders who only trail the brakes into decreasing radius corners and not at all in other turns. They put their attention on getting the bike pointed towards exit and back to the gas as early as possible. They have lap records and championships. What does that prove? That it can be done with understanding and practice. Does that make it better than always trailing the brakes? No. It only means that it can be done and done to very good results.
Keith
this should be sticked X2 imho...
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nice videos!!(and i can finally compare how fast i steer IRT sbk tier)
id have the confidence to say i only steer 0.1-0.15 seconds slower than them on my beat up 125
dunno how much is attributed to the hardware bottleneck thou (it is a top of the line frameless race prepped 1199R , near or top tech imho)
still will get a S1000RR HP4 if i have the resources...
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I find it works much better for long wheelbase + lower COG bikes.
On my 125 with a shorter wheelbase and slightly higher COG, i only do that if i overspeed a corner and/or lean is <20 degrees in the dry; <15 in the wet
imho i rather let one or both wheels lose grip when straight up than either one in a turn ...
its a skill that... is in my emergency toolbox
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any big brand will do
go for "GG" rated pads if you want very little initial bite
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prevention is better than cure imho.
as said in the book, going into the corner too fast and you'll blow so many sweet spots...
screwing up the turn point ALONE makes 11 things go haywire
then theres the suspension not in compliance , SR's , screwing up the steering rate etc...
its so bad i can easily overtake and out-accelerate bikes nearly double my displacement due to rider error alone on my home stretch... (and its just at 50 KM/H medium speed double apex turn with no chamber)
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Had only ridden I4, I2, V2, single (air cooled)
I4 is smooth but... souless (2012 FZ6R)
I2 .. i kinda like the train like pull at low speeds and torque character (2012 NC700 series (non DCT variants) )
V2 ... FZR , woah, the soundtrack is really to die for
Daily commuter is a single , pretty good powerband at legal street limits.
would really love to ride a triple to come to a conclusion (F3 agusta / brutale/ triumph street triple 675 R)
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hmm... around the time motogp / sbk times began to shrink by not about 10 seconds but instead seconds/miliseconds at a time?
I'd guesstimate 1990
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omg!!!! Combine! hahahahahah I have seen these on the road where I live.
I see it all the time.
Being able to read and prevent an accident / stay a safe distance away from a road hazard is one of the best ways to be safe on the road/track .
Nasty Target Fixation
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
brakes + tight on the bars too compounded the problem
I think a round mirror in the middle of the turn helps road users see who's on the turn thou...