ktk_ace
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Posts posted by ktk_ace
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Well done on figuring this out.
Now, you brought up an interesting topic, which I think is worth more exploration! Many street riders keep the throttle steady while turning the bike, instead of rolling off as they initiate the turn. I did, it, too, and I remember why - but let's hear it from someone else - what makes a rider want to keep the throttle flat while steering the bike, isntead of rolling off, and what false barrier can that create for a rider?
I keep the throttle flat because I want to be able to catch the front in case I flip the bike too quickly ....when I'm completey off the gas there's this little gap (motor and chain-related) ... never really seen anything wrong with it (well, at least until maybe 2 minutes ago ;-) ) ...
Like to hear more!
Uli
edit: just went for a little testride, what I do is I actually (unknowingly) roll back the throttle a tiny little bit before the steering impuls so that there is still some drag on the chain but no acceleration. (is "drag" the right word? not sure) so that as soon as I reach my lean angle I can roll on the gas smoothly ...
IMHO its deceleration you mentioned.~ (engine braking and wind drag)
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I would love to have TC and ABS on rainy days and sudden unexpected slippery surfaces / conditions thou
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You mean like life / personal injury insurance? I have plenty. Wife made sure of that when I started track riding.
The 600 is only for endurance racing (3 h, team of riders rotating through 20-min sessions) - it's pretty relaxed as racing goes.
Nice to hear that.
learning to read the track and other riders will give you a distinct advantage imho...
I do that on the streets as survival practice and i pass an average of 15 riders per my short 2 Km journey for lunch and dinner in the suburbs.
90% of the passes are calculated based on geography and the other's mistakes. Im working on the remaining 10%
?? I fail to see the connection between passing riders on the street and passing them on a race track. One is a matter of how fast you want to go; the other is about how fast you are capable of going. If those two things are anywhere near the same on the street, you are doing something wrong.
Perhaps I misunderstood. Passing someone on the street shouldn't be challenging - if it is, you shouldn't be doing it. I think I must have missed your point.
Hmm, looks like you have the luxury of considerate and slow bikers/cars in your area.
Nice.
I dont, every trip is venturing into the warzone whether you like it or not . My area is messed up so to speak.
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You mean like life / personal injury insurance? I have plenty. Wife made sure of that when I started track riding.
The 600 is only for endurance racing (3 h, team of riders rotating through 20-min sessions) - it's pretty relaxed as racing goes.
Nice to hear that.
learning to read the track and other riders will give you a distinct advantage imho...
I do that on the streets as survival practice and i pass an average of 15 riders per my short 2 Km journey for lunch and dinner in the suburbs.
90% of the passes are calculated based on geography and the other's mistakes. Im working on the remaining 10%
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Insurance? 600 classes are pretty hi risk if you ask me.
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Im no expert but it looks like the winter weather has cause your oil to become too "sticky"
what weather did you ride in while experiencing such headshake/vibrations?
pics help alot
also, steering bearings
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OK, here is the next question: What is the minimum experience a person should have before they come to the school. Chime in with why you think so on your answer.
CF
You could always do a safety course to assess every rider's start stop/ clutch engagement / gear engagement skillset at the very start with the older bikes .
I was coached and tested on a course that has :
1) 2 circles for left/right turns (touch the lines and the buzzer buzzes)
2) 7 second straight line stability test (touch the lines and the buzzer buzzes + < 7 seconds your out)
3) simulated traffic light stop start (clutch / throttle application + brakes)
4) uphill climbs (clutch / throttle application + brakes)
5) 0-30-0KM/H standing traffic light start and emergency braking within line/area (clutch / throttle application)
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Now I own a 12' R1 which is even more sensitive on the throttle. It almost drives me nuts and makes me want my 05' R1 back because the throttle was so forgiving on the bottom end on that bike. The bottom end grunt on this one makes you feel like your walking on eggshells when you turn around a little corner and need to accelerate while at slow speeds. But I have become pretty good at it so far. This is also the bike I used at level one of CSS, which was a blast!!
Franco,
I have an R6S that has a throttle that is very tricky as well. It is very easy to be abrupt when transitioning from off-throttle to on-throttle. I used to hate it but I've learned to appreciate it because it requires a very delicate touch. One that you can't have when you're even remotely stiff on the bars. It taught me that when I was being abrupt with the throttle it was because I wasn't relaxing enough. Now, a rough transition form off to on throttle is my first indication that I need to relax so I've learned to embrace that tricky throttle. It's been a great training aid. Try to relax like you were taught in Level 1 and I bet your transitions become smoother.
Benny
IMHO I read the 6 months as a bottleneck in learning other skills if you are stuck with a finicky throttle ...
Had a similar experience with a Honda NSR125 , XJ6 and NC700S
long story short as a newbie (i started from zero on clutch and gear shifting ,had > 5000 miles of self taught Twist2(book+video) SR.line and throttle practice thou on the family scooter ) ,
1: the derestricted NSR is so finicky on the throttle that I have near nothing left of the $10 worth of attention to modulate the clutch and do the shifting; I returned to the owner after like 500 m in the suburbs
2: the XJ6 's inline 4 have to be very "revvy" for it not to flame out during standing off the line traffic light get offs. Half of my $10 had to go to modulating the throttle properly...
I was physically and mentally exhausted after only 20 mins of practice on that bike. Pitted in early to let the others have a go and for some rest.
3:The NC700S ... the torque was so manageable from 1800 RPM onwards that I only need to spend like what? $2 on the throttle control? I learned loads like smooth shifting, modulating the clutch for uphill climbs/stop starts, front brake modulation (it has CABS which is FAR better than the XJ6's for 30-0 stops, the weight distro is much better as the front doesnt dive as much and less "chopping" of the front tire under ABS) , counter steering , look where you want to go (visuals) etc with the remaining $8 dollars worth of attention...
I was still raring to go after the allocated 30 minutes of practice on this bike!!
I personally learned more stuff per hour spent on the NC700S than on the other 2 bikes because it lets me have more $ of attention to do and experiment with other things~ but thats just me
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Nice bikes!
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Girl beginner bike = light (at most 2.5X her weight ) + fits her
hence imho > 150KG + 4 stroke + good clutch modulation/ engagement
My picks:
KTM duke 125/200
Bajaj Pulsar 150/200NS
Honda CBF 125/150
The honda CBR250/kawa ninja250 are for bigger guy riders; girls are easily intimidated by the heavy weight fyi
the girls around my area mostly ride 100 CC scooters at <100KG + <8HP
they find 125/150 SCOOTERS too big + heavy ... most around cant even do one proper push up so Im not surprised .
I'd like to add that for guy riders , the CB500/NC700 series packs serious beginner grade overall package for a beginner's bike if you have to go for new.
used bikes... too many to mention.
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...One thing I did not do, which I been training myself not to do after reading TOTW2 and watching the video is to not chop the throttle in the turn. I stayed on the throttle until about 2 seconds of running wide and into the ditch where I crashed....
I'm back, sorry for the delay. It seems like you're comfortable with the information on how to prevent setting yourself up to run wide by using a good turn point that makes the turn as straight as possible, and steering as quickly as possible. If I'm wrong in that assumption, let me know.
Next, I'd like to address your statement above because I believe your understanding of throttle control is incomplete. First, the CSS definition of a good line consists of three elements: 1) Requires only one steering input 2) Allows proper throttle control 3) Makes your line through the corner as straight as possible. If you are on a line that does not ALLOW proper throttle control (i.e. you're running wide), does continuing to accelerate make sense? The answer is obviously no (I hope). The faster you go, the wider your arc becomes, which runs you even wider. The proper solution at that point is to MAKE A NEW TURN. To do so, you should REDUCE the throttle to at least neutral (less is better as it helps you steer more easily), steer the bike on to your NEW line and then apply proper throttle control again. DO NOT re-steer the bike WHILE accelerating because adding throttle and lean angle at the same time is a recipe for losing traction in the rear and crashing. Keith and the CSS crew will tell you that is the number one cause of track crashes.
I think it is awesome that you were able to train yourself to overcome the roll-off the throttle SR. It is a great demonstration to all of us that it is possible. I just think there was a small misunderstanding about the application of proper throttle control. That, combined with the target fixation you identified, I think is what kept you from being able to get yourself out of the situation you got yourself into by turning in early. You're definitely on the right track in seeking good information and working to apply it to your riding and I hope you don't let your mishap deter you from continuing on that path. Even better would be to get to a professional school (obviously, my personal recommendation is CSS). Best of luck and let me know if you still have any questions or I've been unclear.
Benny
There is a section in the video where it teaches you how to deal with running wide imho ...
How many of the steps do you apply or did not apply?
And how many SR's did you trigger?
This is fundamental to your improvement imho
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some of mine
"just ride more and ride in the city; You'll improve when you can filter to a knuckle's distance away from your nearest vehicle"
> tailgating and not maintaining safe distance
Cat: downright bizarre ?
"the way you steer is so dangerous! its gonna get you into trouble someday! "
> on my sub 1S quick steer ;He sees it as danger, I see it as a usable skill in optimum conditions .
Cat: funny ?
Per hotfoots Q's
"You just need to get more aggressive with your riding."
> Misguided?
"Don't worry about adjusting the suspension, that really doesn't make any difference." (this was from a motorcycle dealer, BTW)
>downright bizzare
"Trust your tires."
>True but not helpfulmight be wrong thou
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I'm with ktk-ace on this one, i.e.
1) Throttle control
2) Steering
3) Vision
... so just to throw something new into the mix. Now, I don't know whether these really qualify as 'skills', but:
1. A desire to get better.
2. A positive attitude towards learning.
You can't get very far without those ...
. And I'm sure we all know plenty of riders who don't seem to have much of either 
At the risk of sounding very snarky and snobbish...
I would say that that is the inherent talent avaliable to each rider (confidence AND psychological resistance to your own fears/other things on road/track)
For ex if a rider only have 0.5% talent, he would have to work twice as hard as one with 1% talent ... a rider with 2% talent on the other hand ... you get the drill
I already have "scripts" for every turn near where I live (ie which turn point (multiple) to take and visual vs throttle delay(ie 0.3S for turn A etc))
I brake drift my bike to get out of sticky stiuations , some say Im crazy but i see it as redundancy to get my ass out of trouble.
Skill on the other hand is what can be learned by almost anyone with enough time.
just my 2C
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i'm just blown away by what these bikes can do. I love the way they get the rear spinning up to bring the bike around the corner
so that they can stand it up and get on the gas.
You can too with skill (School) and hardware (Programmable traction control catered to your bike , riding style AND track of choice )
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It seems crazy that you were able to cover almost 180 degrees of curve, just to run wide at the end.
Going up hill, we need less acceleration to keep the proper weight balance, as the rear feels more weight than the front.
Too much throttle in those conditions and you could overload the rear and harden the steering.
Nice description as i encounter similar situations too ~
Im sure a programmable GPS + semiactive suspension would solve these problems
In the meantime I set my rear shock to be a bit stiff so as to lower the effect slightly (enough to get by going uphill but far from perfect)
As for the R1 ... My self taught mass centralization sense tells me the position and weight of the twin rear muffler compounds the problem (esp uphill)
A RC8R with underslung exhaust (lower COG + mass centralization) would experience less understeer going uphill imho
Just my 2c
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1. High "SR" threshold... what can a rider do to reduce his SR threshold? What are the things that trigger SRs and what specific skills can be applied to reduce them? What what were/are your personal triggers & what have you guys done to reduce them?
Some doesn't seem to have much in the way of SRs, like Schwantz in my post above. Or like Marquez, crashing at 320 mph and still have presence to decide how to crash to reduce the risk of hurting himself, then going back out, bruised and battered, and riding even faster. Most people would hold back just a little after such an episode, but if you do, you will not win. Can you learn to be this fearless, or would you have to be born this way?
You seldom see idiot drivers/cyclist/bikers on the track do you? Or stray animals/leaves ...
Riding 90% like MM or ANY of the top gp champs on open roads is a death wish imho
They are just what they are: inspiriation.
As Mr Keith said: would you like to learn golf from tiger woods or from the instructor who taught him?
I automatically considered the question to relate to being a racer, and not a question about basic riding. It could be a made the wrong assumption, because if we are talking about riding in general or road riding in particular, my answers would be totally different. For street riding it would be:
#1: Being very careful.
#2: The ability to understand traffic situations and place your machine where you are the most conspicuous while retaining the best possible observation spot.
#3: Understand how fast you can ride while being able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear.
Being very careful on the road is more important than being good at controlling the bike, since the good rider tend to ride quite a bit faster. Of course, being both good and careful is better than just being careful
I apologize for misinterpreting...
And i do agree with your points
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1. High "SR" threshold... what can a rider do to reduce his SR threshold? What are the things that trigger SRs and what specific skills can be applied to reduce them? What what were/are your personal triggers & what have you guys done to reduce them?
Some doesn't seem to have much in the way of SRs, like Schwantz in my post above. Or like Marquez, crashing at 320 mph and still have presence to decide how to crash to reduce the risk of hurting himself, then going back out, bruised and battered, and riding even faster. Most people would hold back just a little after such an episode, but if you do, you will not win. Can you learn to be this fearless, or would you have to be born this way?
You seldom see idiot drivers/cyclist/bikers on the track do you? Or stray animals/leaves ...
Riding 90% like MM or ANY of the top gp champs on open roads is a death wish imho
They are just what they are: inspiriation.
As Mr Keith said: would you like to learn golf from tiger woods or from the instructor who taught him?
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Hi there!
I take that the G-forces are kinda similar eh? -
Thanks for all the responses,
I guess my main issue is the bike feels exactly like its always felt, it isn't bad or unstable or anything, but I don't know if it could be better as I have nothing to "benchmark" it against.
My current setting for the forks according to my notes are as follows
Sag Front: 33mm ( Travel 120 mm )
Compression Fast: 0.374" ( Range 0.31" - 0.47" )
Compression Slow: 10 clicks ( Range 1 - 16 Clicks )
Rebound: 7 clicks ( Range 1-17 Clicks )
the stock spring rates should be right on for my weight, according to the online calculators I've looked at, assuming that the forks have the stock springs in them
Sag Front: 33mm ( Travel 120 mm ) = 27.5 % of total travel
>which is within range for a track day setup ~
(25-30% for track , on streets I personally use 30-33% as its bumpy around here)
I recently read an article by dave moss, seems that you like your bike to have less "pogo"-ing
Quoted from his FB:
3. Weight transfer can be visualized as a clock face, the front wheel at 9am the rear at 3pm. As we brake the weight will move from noon towards 9. How far & how fast? Spring tension and compression damping will determine that. Therefore the same is true under acceleration with shock preload and compression. Do you want to go from 3-9 with weight transfer or 10-2, or 11-1. That's your choice and you set the bike up to your needs.
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the mid -1/3 is DURING CORNERING
the MAX OUT 90% of the stroke is for BRAKING
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1) Throttle control (which directly and indirectly affects SR's)
ability to use it in the most optimal way + see where other people go wrong = huge advantage on public roads for me
2) Steering ( turn point + how quick 50/50)
Think fruit ninja , you start and complete a turn of your own choosing and efficiency like a blade slicing thru a blueberry type of precision
3) Vision
hazard and road assessment to optimize the 2 above
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Now is a good time to write down questions on your notepad!
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you might want to have a look doc!
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-shapes.htm
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A good read imho while you sign up for lessons ~
CODE BREAK | Small Steps, Big Leaps
By Keith Codehttp://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/columns/1309_being_relaxed_in_the_saddle/
Just Sayin' Hi
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Welcome!!