[How Do You Know What Your 100% *really* Is?]

This is going a bit off topic - but how would you compare the feeling of riding a horse with riding a motorbike? I always wondered about that... not too sure I'd do well on a horse, boy they are tall! Never ridden one or been around them much, actually the thought of climbing on a horse scares me!

 

Gotta respect horses and a good rider though, still some impressive lean.

 

 

So I guess hanging off isn't such a big thing when riding a horse... vision looks spot on, at least for the rider. Not sure what the horse is looking at, but as long as at least one of them knows where they're going it should all work out, right?

[Proprioception, Or Why Some People Ride Faster When They Can't See]

I don't believe that my proprioception, regarding sense of balance, improves at all due to darkness.

There is no way to be more perfectly balanced than during cornering: you are either doing it in balance or doing it dangerously wrong.

 

The way I understand it is that it's not so much a case of proprioception/balance/etc. actually improving at night, it's just that it takes over as the dominant sense (rather than the sense of sight which is dominant during the day).

 

And yep I agree - if you're successfully riding a corner you've already got it "perfect", as far as there not being any other way to do it (you can't use the wrong lean angle and stay on the same line at the same speed). But there is a lot more going on than just being balanced in a corner, lots of need to sense distance and position in space as you're riding through a series of corners, choosing turn points, braking points etc.?

 

I really don't think it is Proprioception. If it were then the how would you apply the same statements about being able to go faster to people driving cars at night?

I see it as more of a situation of freed up attention that is being applied elsewhere for the better.

 

Interesting point about cars... but who says it doesn't apply to car drivers? Have you ever noticed a tendency to speed more while driving at night?

 

I just remembered about night time karting sessions. Once I get into the groove my vision surely mustn't be giving me as much input? Because all I see is a constant twisting blur - it doesn't even feel as if I'm riding the track, so much as just remaining stationary and the track is coming to me and passing under my wheels! Now that I think about it that's the same type of feeling that I get when riding a set of corners at night. Not as intense as at karting though.

 

I would have tended to agree about more attention being freed up, maybe that is part of it... but now that I think about proprioception as being the dominant sense at night it makes more sense. Unless you have some kind of balance impairment (inner ear damage or infection for example) then it seems like it's reasonable to say that proprioception is a 100% trustworthy sense that won't lead you astray. Compared with eyesight, which of course is always accurate (unless you're hallucinating etc.) but it can trick us up while riding because we can easily pay attention to things which aren't really important. We also need to be mindful to direct our sight correctly. Whereas proprioception can only sense your current situation. So it makes me wonder if there is a way to rely more on proprioception and allow it to be the dominant sense, even during the day?

[Electronics Dull Us?]

Thus far TC and ABS systems in cars have put me in more danger than not having them would have.

 

I'm pretty surprised to hear that! What kind of situations put you in danger?

 

I think this comes back to the point that electronic aids are just another control that need to be used properly. You can't blame the TC for limiting your speed on corner exit, that's like getting mad at the bike because you have a limited top speed when you only twist the throttle to 80%! If the TC is limiting you, the solution is to change the setting, or just turn it off. The TC is not faulty in any way, it's acting exactly as it was designed to.

 

Strange that you don't trust the aids, it seems like they have been behaving predictably and remained constant for you (for example rain mode limiting your drive out of corners)? You can trust it to do the same thing, every single time. You can't really ask for more than that, can you?

[Top 3 Skills]

Can you learn to be this fearless, or would you have to be born this way?

 

I would say that yes you can learn to be like that. It would probably be a lot of work and you'd have to confront and deal with some pretty big personal barriers, but hard work beats talent every time. (IMO!)

 

If you want to be "fearless" I think you would need to adopt a certain mental attitude or outlook. Rather than reacting to situations emotionally, you would need to train yourself react logically and rationally at all times. Easy to say, but not so easy to do since people are all emotional to some degree. But if you can react logically rather than emotionally then by definition you ought to be fearless, since fear is just an emotion.

 

Actually that's probably a good exercise for everyone, at least to evaluate their own reactions. If you think of people who react emotionally while riding or driving, you probably notice that they tend to make poor decisions, correct? One way your could evaluate yourself is to think about whether your observations match the reality of the situation. For example new riders often feel that they're at maximum lean when they actually have quite a long way to go, so their observations are way out of sync with reality (a pretty scary thought)! But if they concentrate only on the facts, the grip level, recognizing the actual possible max lean angle, then they'll avoid all those emotional decisions such as "I feel I can't lean any more" etc. Basically you either can or your can't lean further. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. If that makes sense...? (Feeling is an emotional thing, so any time you're riding along and think "I feel..." that's an emotional response.)

 

However once you can look at situations logically it makes sense that things would get much easier for you. For example when Marquez had that big crash, he no doubt knew exactly what he did wrong, so looking at it logically he would have been able to say to himself "okay, I made a mistake. I won't do that again, therefore I won't crash again." But if he started to make emotional decisions he would probably start thinking that he didn't want to go out again, let alone go any faster because he could have just died out there...

 

I think probably more people get into that type of mindset than we might realise? I remember on my last track day I had made some good improvements and it was either the last or 2nd last session of the day (always my best ones) and the thought suddenly crossed my mind that I was going so fast that if I missed my turn point by 1-2 metres I would run off the track. Of course I was thinking this as I was coming into the first turn off the straight... and I did miss my turn point and I ran off the track. But up until then I didn't really have any fear at all, all I was concentrating on was the actions I had to perform. Perhaps the worrying part comes afterwards when you get a chance to sit down and think about what you've just done... some people may be scared about how they were riding and may put some kind of limits on themselves because of it?

 

I would say that CSS naturally creates that type of logical thinking in people as well. At least that is what I noticed from Level 1 - all of the exercises make you think about the things you should be doing, you're dealing only with actions and results and if you're working at it properly you shouldn't really have time to get all emotional about anything. That emotion comes when you're back in the pits likely with a massive grin on your face.

 

The other aspect that CSS helps with is teaching you all about the technology of riding, giving riders an understanding of exactly how things work on a bike, and understanding how their actions will bring about a certain result, even being able to work backwards and see how a particular result was caused by their actions. I'm sure that having a solid understanding of the technology of riding would go a long way to avoiding SRs. They may as well be called Surprise Reactions, right? And it's pretty hard to be surprised by something if you're expecting it.

[Not Trailing Braking & Lap Times]

.. when I trailbrake I can get INTO the turn faster but not OUT of it faster, so trailbraking only improves my times through turns that have a very high entry speed and a very low exit speed.

 

Cheers for that! Now I finally understand how trail braking could be used to gain an advantage, never thought of that before.

[Proprioception, Or Why Some People Ride Faster When They Can't See]

I always enjoy seeing what Colin Edwards has to say, I mean what a character, right? But this one has always stuck with me:

 

 

"I like the night race. I think it's a cool little scenario. It's something special; you only have one a year. It's something a little bit different. I tend to ride faster when I can't see where I'm going. Everything works out better that way." April 2009, about the night race at Qatar

Source: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/colin-edwards-on-the-world-at-large/

 

It must have just been coincidence because I read that after a ride home from work one night. Nothing out of the ordinary except for the fact it was the absolute fastest I've gone through this little chicane on my route home, only about 20-30km/h, pretty slow. But the thing that caught me by surprise and stood out to me this time was that going fast enough and grabbing enough throttle to lift the front wheel on the direction change - which I had never even done before. And which had just happened when it was night!

 

I never thought I might have something in common with a GP racer, but there it was: "I tend to ride faster when I can't see where I'm going." I thought to myself that he might actually be onto something there, given my very recent experience at that time it sure seemed like it wasn't just another quip. I'm pretty sure he said that again after one of the races at Indy when there was particularly bad weather.

 

So this got me thinking about how easily our vision can trick us - we can take in so much information that doesn't do us any good at all, and really just distracts us from the task at hand. For example riding a cambered corner - we might see a big sloping corner that sets off a bunch of thoughts and "what if" scenarios. But those things don't matter so much as the actual grip we have in the corner. It seems like a constant struggle to pay attention to the important things while making sure that we don't get overwhelmed by the unimportant things.

 

How many people have experienced this sensation of riding on a twisting highway at night with just your headlights to show you the way, but you actually seem to be able to, or feel that you can ride faster? I'm always surprised by this, if I'm just cruising along at the speed limit of 100km/h with my low beam headlights on I feel completely relaxed, nothing surprises me and I just react to the corners as they come. I would have thought that the opposite is true because with only low beam I can see only a small fraction compared to what is visible during the day. (This doesn't work so well if I'm using high beam, or I'd just have to ride faster.)

 

Doing some random internet browsing the other day I came across something interesting that made me think this sensation was actually a real thing that has a cause and an explanation:

 

 

So does that actually explain what Colin Edwards was talking about??

 

Proprioception allows us to walk in complete darkness without losing our balance. Is it possible that when we can't see as much, we can actually tune in more easily to our sense of balance and our feeling of traction without it having to compete with the visual input?

 

I found this idea really interesting. Has anyone else experienced this or thought about it?

[Not Trailing Braking & Lap Times]

What keith code has shown in his videos and books to me makes a lot of sense, that with a quick flick you create the better line and therefor get to less of a lean and back on throttle sooner. But does that reflect in lap times?

 

Indeed a very interesting question!

 

It reminds me of the inaugural Phillip Island 8-hour endurance race that was held in 2011. CSS entered a team... as for your question of whether quick flick shows in lap times, I'll let a CSS Coach answer it for you!

 

To set the scene, the gear shifter broke so they had to pit:

 

 

“Ben Fox, our mechanic came up with an impressive quick fix that got us back out on track, but the gear shift had to be relocated a long way forward, beyond the reach of rider’s foot. We had to take our foot off the peg for every gear change, and that was a little awkward,” explained Raffe, CSS Chief Riding Coach. “As a result it worked out easier to eliminate a few of the gear changes around the circuit and in the end we just use third, fourth and fifth gears.

 

“Also given that the stints were long, and we had a front tyre to preserve, we actually ended up pretty much racing around in three gears with light brakes. Funnily enough this is actually the riding format we use at the school for students in one particular exercise. To our surprise our times actually got faster riding in that way, and the tyre wear improved too!”

 

After being 11 laps down when they rejoined with the fixed shifter, they finished just one lap short of a win, finishing in 2nd. More details here: http://www.superbikeschool.com.au/sbs_news/id/27

 

 

For me there are a lot of reasons to concentrate on the quick flick rather than trail braking. I figure that if I have enough grip to trail brake, then I have lots more grip that could have been used for an even faster quick flick. Are races won with the brakes, or with the throttle?

 

The other reason for me is that leaving trail braking out of the equation greatly reduces my risk. All front end crashes are due to misuse of the front brake, never because of turning (assuming good surface etc., but even then you're still most likely to crash with the brakes involved). I only ride track days for fun, and I ride my street bike there, and I've not crashed yet on a track and I want to keep that record in tact! So for me I'd say that yes it definitely improves my lap times, all the while minimising my risk and making me safer.

 

For regular folks doing track days or club level racing I always come back to thinking of this type of situation: if a rider is trail braking, what's stopping the quick flicker from just zipping up the inside, turning and hitting the throttle? All while the other rider is busy trying to modulate his braking, monitoring his grip levels and watching you gas it? Okay, maybe it's not that much of a difference in reality, but you get the point. The rider who is trail braking is reducing the available traction that could be used for the steering input.

 

Like others have mentioned it's completely different when you get up to world championship level, WSBK & MotoGP. In the case of MotoGP they have completely different machinery that none of us can start to fully understand, let alone try to figure out the best way to ride them. I'm not sure about WSBK, but you can be sure they're like no bike we would ever ride. Given the speed and forces involved, perhaps they are already quick flicking to their limit while also trail braking?? Maybe it gets to a point where they would need to put so much extra effort into the quick flick for a minimal gain, they might decide that it's better to start trail braking to use the extra grip?

 

I think that's where people can easily get confused or start down the wrong path... they look at these world class riders and try to emulate every aspect of their riding. They see them trail braking, and so they believe that's the way they will ride fast as well. There's definitely things to be learnt from those riders, but given the machinery differences it only makes sense that some things won't apply at all?

 

I suppose even track day riders and club racers can get sucked into the same way of thinking, they just kind of follow along with what everyone else is doing... if you're mid-pack and everyone else is trail braking into a corner it's going to take a fairly big commitment for you to step out of line and try a quick flick at a late turn point? Just as racing or riding with faster people may help break down your mental barriers, maybe it can work the other way and limit you to doing things the same way they do as well??

[Any Other Schools You Have Been To?]

Spain & Italy

 

Yep Spain and Italy just have a lot more opportunities for young riders. I know that here in Australia it's pretty much the opposite, not easy for young racers to have good opportunities in the global scene. Even if you win the national championship you could move the Europe and everyone would be thinking "huh, who is this guy?" And other silly things, rules limiting what young racers can do, stopping them from progressing, all the usual politicking. At least that is how it seems, I'm not super involved and don't follow the local/national race scene actually.

 

I think equipment parity is another important thing. I'm not 100% sure on this, but aren't all the European race series designed and setup to be an actual feeder to various world championship series? Meaning that the bikes they ride are bringing them on more of a natural progression, rather than eventually racing in World Supersport for example and finding that the bikes are so vastly different to anything that they've ridden before?

 

 

Other Schools

 

I've done a few other schools/training as well. All before I did CSS, now I would not do anything else! The exception for me is that I also want to go to Colin Edwards Bootcamp one day, but that is just as much for the experience as anything else. The other exception would be a dirt/offroad school because there are some things you just don't learn on street bikes... like how to ride over logs nearly as tall as your bike.

 

The very first course I did was a half price deal that came with my bike purchase (the morning was spent in a big lot doing drills and was free, you just had to pay for the afternoon if wanted to get on the road course). It was a roadcraft course held at a closed road driver training facility. As a new rider with a new bike it was good to go through some basic drills (steering, braking etc.) just to become familiar with the bike in a controlled environment. I went back just for one morning when I bought another bike, and that time a few things started to stand out to me. One was that they made everyone brake with 4 fingers on the lever. No correspondence entered into, probably wouldn't have mattered if you could do a 100m rolling endo with 1 finger. But that type of course is fairly basic anyway. My recommendation for a new rider now would be to forget about those types of courses - if you qualify to ride there, you can ride at CSS.

 

The other one was with Bernie Hatton at Top Rider. I had heard really good things from others on an Aussie motorcycling forum I visit. I also wanted to go just for the sake of riding the track. It's a private course that I believe was built/owned by the CEO of Coca Cola Australia, it has everything you can imagine - uphill, downhill, off-camber, positive camber, about 22 corners or so and a big fast straight. The main thing I took away from that day was some needed improvements on my braking, keeping my vision up and getting the feel for nice progressive braking. I'm sure I could have got more out of the day, but my mistake was that I rode to the location, doing 900km (560 miles) the previous day... after I had just installed rearsets on my bike. Lesson learnt - make sure you're fresh and well rested for any kind of training!

 

After that I did quite a bit of track day tuition. The coaches on these days are current racers in the national championship. This is just where you pay some extra money at your track day and receive coaching. I got a fair bit out of this as well, firstly this was where I was taught about proper body position and the idea that you want to setup for corners early. And also about weight distribution ("your bike has a seat, so just sit on it!"). That was such a big help by itself, it was worth it just to have an entire day to work on that alone. The next big benefit was when I started doing track days at Lakeside here in Queensland. Mick Doohan has said “If you can learn to race a motorbike at Lakeside, you can compete at any race track in the world.” It's a bit of a tricky place, took me a few days to get to find all my reference points and the tuition really helped in guiding me towards a better way to ride the track. I also had my next riding breakthrough here in learning how to handle double apex corners, and the fact that it's completely acceptable to coast into a corner with zero throttle. Mega breakthrough, like mind blown when I learnt that and tried it out!

 

And then finally I came to CSS. I can say that by far I have made the most improvement after attending CSS. My default recommendation now is CSS - I have a few friends who will be getting along to CSS eventually, I'm going to make sure of it!

 

But this is where it gets interesting, because my experience at CSS would have just built on all those points that I had learnt perviously - which were still very important points all on their own. I don't regret doing the other training, quite the opposite - if someone had the option of doing some local training or nothing at all - I would say just go for it! But it also seemed like CSS tied together all those other things I learnt and helped me see the big picture.

[How Do You Know What Your 100% *really* Is?]

Interesting responses here. Good to get some different viewpoints on this subject.

 

So, my 100% is defined as much by my faith in what I am doing as it is by my actual abilities.

 

when I bankrupt my $10 dollar worth of attention AND dont crash. (more like near total reliance on reflex and muscle memory)

 

When you can both be scared silly from fear while at the same time be relaxed enough to ride the bike properly and do what you must do to stay upright.

 

I think a good definition of riding at 100% is having ALL of your attention focused on getting the maximum traction and drive and overall speed from your bike (based on the information flowing to you through your senses), with no free attention left over for "thinking".

 

I'm not sure how I would describe my own 100%... probably because I'm pretty sure that I've never reached it! Or if I have, it's been very brief because I quickly realise that I didn't crash or nothing bad happened and so the bar is immediately raised again. It seems like every time I ride a track day (just because that is the main place where I can work on my skills with minimal distractions) that I just get faster and faster. Since doing CSS I leave each track day more comfortable and confident and knowing that I can go faster. Eventually I will reach some kind of a plateau... whether it's imaginary or actual is another question... but that's the reason why I'm interested in this - hopefully I will be able to recognise the real limits and overcome or disregard the imaginary ones!

 

ktk_ace made a comment about total reliance on muscle memory and reflex actions - that sounds like when you're riding in "the zone", when you just do things and it all works without having to specifically think about anything. I wonder if that would actually be something other than 100%... maybe less?? It's probably a difficult thing to say for sure, but my first thought would be that riding at your actual maximum would require quite a lot of thought. Or look at it this way - if you're riding with nearly complete reliance on reflex and muscle memory, imagine how much faster you could go if you actually thought about what you were doing?!

 

I believe when you no longer understand what is happening, or when the bike is disobeying you , or when you are not confident - That is your limit.

 

% figures are a myth.Traction for instance may affect your limit, as does poor bike set up, general state of mind etc.

 

A myth? I dunno, I'd say percentage is a fairly sound mathematical concept.

What I'm really talking about is the riders ability. Yes the tyres will wear and affect your grip, and so lap times will change, but the rider may still be putting in maximum effort on the worn tyres just the same as they were on the fresh tyres. That's what makes it tricky - lap times are really the closest thing to an actual measurement of skill or ability, yet lap times are dependant on so so many other factors that it's not a reliable gauge of skill, or whether a rider was actually riding at their maximum. At least that is how I see it.

 

It's an irrelevant question mugget. 100% is an abstract number unless applied to a prerequisite set approval. Nothing more nothing less. My or your 100% today is 50% tomorrow.

 

I think people use "100%" more as a way to define an abstract concept like skill & effort, I know that's how I look at it. I don't expect there is an actual measurable level of performance. And it can change so much so quickly that measuring would be almost pointless? I would rather know for my own information, so I can recognise the difference between fooling myself that I'm riding at maximum, and knowing what level I'm actually riding at.

 

He has at least ten times as many laps on that track as I do but yet he is typically a 1:15-1:18 rider feeling like he was only a few seconds off the fastest he could run.

Competition (speculation) drove him to ride faster and he looked really smooth and in control doing it, clearly what he thought was his 100% when pushing to around 1:10 wasn't his 100% at all.

 

I adopted the method of evaluating my riding by ensuring that my subjective observations match the objective reality of the situation. It's not always an easy thing either... but it looks like the rider who ran 1:05 when he perviously thought 1:15 was his best had well and truly tricked himself! It doesn't seem so harmful to "trick" yourself into riding a slower lap time, but I find the possibility of "tricking" myself into a false reality while riding a bit scary!

 

Mental roadblocks are much much easier to overcome in a competitive situation

 

That seems to be a fairly common observation, can't argue with that. But that's still the thing that I find interesting because like you say, it's all mental. So there's no physical benefit from actually racing... it's not like weightlifting where a person just might not be strong enough to lift 400lb. A person could ride a track day, then race the very next day and smash their personal best lap time.

 

I guess if there was some technique that people could use to break mental roadblocks on their own, that everyone would be doing it. Maybe that is a question for a psychologist. But I think it sums it up when you say it's "easier" in a competitive situation. So we could say that someone who doesn't race will still be able to make the same progress (so in that sense there are no benefits that can be found only by racing?), but that person will have to put in much more effort and will take longer to make the progress compared to someone who races. Does that seem like a fair statement?

[Cornering - You Know You're Doing It Right When...]

Ah yes, Ghilli Man! Honestly I would never have believed it was possible if not for that vid...

 

Makes me wonder though - how many times has he crashed (is he the type of person who just keeps pushing and pushing and crashes alot) or is he the type who thinks things through a lot more and manages to stay mostly upright?

 

Maybe he wasn't the first though:

 

 

Personally I look at it and just think that his vision is compromised.

 

Removing hands from the 'bars is a time honoured tradition.

 

There is also a picture out there of a pillion trying to get her head down... can't find it though!

[Rolling On While Increasing Lean]

mugget, with my post above, I'm talking about what to do while already in-turn and you realize your current lean angle is going to take you wide. That is, you didn't quite turn the bike as much as you should have.

 

Ah, gotcha! Well in that case, I suppose there is some comfort in knowing that your initial quick turn (if you did quick turn) will mean that you're using less lean angle than a "lazy" turn, so you have more room to work with.

 

But I still have to wonder why you turn with any throttle applied? I get what you're asking with your question, but it seems like there's something else going on that could be causing some problems? Fix the root cause and you would completely avoid the other issues.

 

For example if you turn with zero throttle, even if you do find out that your line is going to take you wide, you just keep turning more (before you touch the throttle) to correct your line.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you just make your steering input then relax on the 'bars with zero throttle your line will tighten all by itself. Made it really easy for me to ride decreasing radius corners!

[Rolling On While Increasing Lean]

FieryRobot - do you really only "get off the throttle a bit"? I guess that you're finding you don't have to brake at all, but is there any reason in particular why you can't use zero throttle while turning? Or to look at it a different way - why is it that you feel the need to stay on the throttle a bit?

 

The reason I ask is that in my mind holding any kind of throttle while turning just confuses the situation. The almost foolproof process that works for me is to have zero throttle by the time I reach the turn point, then turn. The big criteria for when I re-apply throttle and accelerate out is when I know for sure that I will make my intended exit point/exit line out of the corner.

 

Doing things that way means you completely avoid any mid-corner throttle corrections.

 

Sometimes you may need to hold a flat throttle, for example on a long constant-radius corner. But even then I find it much easier to turn with zero throttle, then apply maintenance throttle once I've turned onto my chosen line. Then still only accelerate out of the corner when I'm 100% sure I will have the exit line that I want.

 

That is what works for me - I have never run wide while using that process. The only times I run wide is if I do something wrong and deviate from that method (ie. lose concentration, vision drifts out, etc.). In which case you've just got to make the best of a bad situation, you have the options that Cobie mentioned.

[Quick Flick/ Counter Steer]

 

PS. if you up the fueling so much that engine braking is almost nonexistent (or setup a slipper clutch for such) (its a common setup for racing here)

 

, you can technically chop the throttle straight up and not upset the bike, leaving you with more of the $10 of attention to do other things beneficial to turning

 

I personally use both the front and rear brakes to prep for entry speed , use vision to find the turn in point and the 2 step for accelerating out of the turn.

 

I practice until its 2nd nature.

 

 

How does the fuelling affect engine braking? It's basically the restricted airflow caused by the closed throttle that causes a vacuum effect in the engine, causing more resistance and slowing it down. If you change that, wouldn't it mean you would still have some drive where there used to just be idle?

[Quick Flick/ Counter Steer]

I am not talking about coasting, I know that is a waist of time. But when coming up on turn 1 from the front straight, do you just chop throttle and hit the brakes? I don't.. it doesn't feel smooth to me. So I just roll off, takes a second or less or about the same amount of time as popping up from the tuck. Do I over-think it while on the bike, naw. maybe right now I am. Guilty

 

Thanks for the input and I am looking forward to my next suspension setting changes when I feel the bike and I no longer have a symbiotic relationship. I just wish I could get the 250 setup to feel that way.

 

I think the recommendation for most people is to simultaneously roll off the throttle and apply the brake? So yeah, no chopping the throttle anywhere.

 

But maybe it would be possible to be more aggressive and make a faster transition from throttle to brakes? Being smooth is a great goal to have, but if you can be more aggressive and have the bike more around a bit, does that give any advantage? Something to think about. Especially if you're limited to certain changes on your bike?

I also think there's a big advantage in being able to adjust ourselves and our riding style to suit the bike, rather than constantly trying to change parts etc. to get our imagined "ideal setup" on the bike. Sometimes people can chase their tails trying to get their bike setup, when all along they could have just looked at what they could do differently to achieve the same result?

[Starting Racing]

I understand your logic about not being able to learn much while pushing to (my) 100% level, but I think there must be a flaw in that thinking because everyone I talk to says they instantly became faster on their first race weekend. Seriously, everyone to a person claims that to be true. I guess there is something educational about being on track with other riders who are trying to go as fast as possible.

 

Interesting that so many people say that...

 

I read an article this week that was written by a former CSS coach, quoting Steve Brouggy (CSS Australia). It was about useful coaching, the interesting point was this:

 

“The purpose of coaching is to transfer the technical ability of what students are doing to what they should be doing by shifting their awareness.”

- Steve Brouggy, California Super Bike School

 

When I read that together with the comments about people who start racing and realise that what they thought was their 100% is not actually their 100%, maybe more like 85-95%, then it seems obvious that quality coaching is what's needed? So they need to receive coaching that will transfer what they are doing - riding at say 85%, to what they should be doing - riding at 100%.

 

I have also let the faster riders lines and markers leak into mine. For me, this happens slowly of the course of a race season. It doesn't hit me until I review the video and realize, I am tailing a rider using his same lines and markers until I see an opening.

 

I can see the benefit of racing with faster riders as well. It reminds me of another quote:

"What a man has done, any man can do."

Which basically means that as soon as one person has done something, that's the hard work out of the way. Other people will realise that it's possible and start to do it themselves. Witness the backflip in freestyle motocross... So it makes sense that if you're riding close with others who are faster than you, unless you're in complete denial you're going to realise that it is actually possible to do things you never even considered before.

 

I think the big thing to be gained in a race versus a track day is that what you thought was your 100% isn't really your 100% at all, your mindset switches from one of personal improvement to must go faster then the guy in front of me, which gives you the added incentive to push your own mental barriers that a normal track day just doesn't have.

 

I would bet that the mindset has a big part to play also. Reminds me of one track session when I was first out on track... I was actually worried about holding up people behind me, so I was doing everything not to. No one passed me the whole session! Admittedly it was the last session of the day so not many people riding, but still... I felt that I was pushing myself, concentration was high and everything was still working, I didn't make any errors.

 

So I guess racing does lend itself to quite a bit of improvement, almost naturally through a changed mindset/outlook. Also by getting up close and seeing how other riders do things, and realising that you can actually do those things yourself.

 

Still... I have to close with another question... but I think that should have another thread: How do you know what your 100% really is??

[How Do You Know What Your 100% *really* Is?]

Following on from the Starting Racing thread, there were a number of comments talking about how people who used to ride track days and believed they were riding at 100% of their ability, then went racing and quickly saw that what they believed was 100%, actually wasn't. Their subjective observations did not match the objective reality. They managed to push to a higher level, to their true 100%...

 

Or was it?

 

If you thought you were riding at 100% when trying to do fast laps on a track day and then find that you can go faster during a race, what's to say that your 100% race pace is actually 100%?

 

For the sake of discussion, let's keep things absolute - 100% is everything that you have, the maximum of your current abilities. 101% means that you crash. The idea that you can ride at 110% is nonsense, but I guess 110% would mean you just made one heck of a nasty crash...

 

How do you define or recognise 100% of your ability?

The second part of the question is how can you keep reevaluating your ability? You can't just take one day per year and evaluate your abilities, hopefully there's constant improvement, so your maximum is always increasing.

This would also be important for people who have no interesting in cutting fast laps, people who are only interested in improving their skills and ride around that 80% level. They could phrase the question as "how do I know what my 80% really is?"

[Quick Flick/ Counter Steer]

Someone in here mention that it is basically impossible in good conditions to flick the bike too quick, as long as they are not on the brakes. My question is, does engine braking count as on the brakes, or do they mean just not on the throttle at all? Is cracked open ok? Some bikes engine brake more than others, I imagine the heavy engine braking on some could be an issue for a seriously fast flick?

 

That was one of the main points I took away from Level 1. Assuming good conditions, and quick flicking to the absolute max - the rear tyre will slide before the front lets go. Also keep in mind that the old-school superbike racers used to bend handlebars because of their counter-steering/quick flick efforts & the strength of their inputs.

 

Probably the engine braking does have some effect when you take your quick flick to a very high level, perhaps that is the reason why the rear will slide eventually, if you keep quick flicking faster and faster? And as far as zero throttle/cracked open, my understanding has always been that you want zero throttle while turning - this is the only way that fits in with the CSS methodology (AFAIK). It would make sense that cracked open is not ok, this would just make it harder to turn which is at odds with what you're trying to accomplish.

 

But for all practical purposes, you can quick flick without worrying about what the engine braking is doing. Again, assuming that you're doing everything else correctly. For example you're not going to downshift into redline right before you turn the bike. But it's worth noting that even if you did, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to crash. If you watch fast racers you can see the rear wheel sliding a bit as they're turning into a corner. I used to think that they were backing it in, but this happens after they initiate the turn. It seems logical that they have turned the bike so quick that the rear slides, but it's pretty amazing to think that they're putting all that turning force through the front tyre, while the rear is sliding, and they do it over and over without crashing.

 

csmith12 - I would question whether or not engine braking can effectively preload the front. Especially if you're riding is "black and white", either "on or off". You would need to coast to allow the engine braking to have much of an effect, which would mean that it's wasted time really... I would think it's much better to get straight onto the front brake, and just use it with appropriate modulation to set your speed. The only method of preloading the front that I've heard of is some people applying the rear brake before they let off the throttle. But that just seems like a way to use up lots of attention, is the gain really worth it?

 

Sometimes it's easy to over-think a situation and get lost in the details.

 

As for your setup, the only suspension guideline I've paid attention to is the fact that you want to have it setup as soft as possible, in order to have the most compliance.

 

On the subject of those alternative steering theories presented in Motovudu - is that the first DVD? I have watched that and I didn't notice anything all that radical, better have another look I suppose...

[Downshifting/braking Options]

- Some kind of intelligent linked brakes like the honda system that work well and operated solely with the right foot would be fantastic to free the right hand from braking, anyone every go such a custom route?

 

One thought on the use of a foot control to operate the front brake, I don't think it's such a good idea. For the same reason that Mat Mladin prefers to use the clutch to control wheelies rather than the rear brake like most people.

 

Edit >> Here is the video showing Mat Mladin controlling wheelies with the clutch. Have a watch and be amazed! Actually the whole series is a great watch, very interesting if you haven't seen it already. (The riding technique info starts from around 5:15, the wheelie/clutch info starts around 6:50.)

 

 

Actually Mladin mentions a good reason there for keeping a finger on the clutch... Perhaps clutchless downshifting and getting into the habit of leaving the clutch alone is not such a good thing? Maybe better to clutchless downshift and still leave a finger on the clutch?

 

How much feeling do you have in your fingers, compared to your feet (through the sole of your boots, no less)? Easily 10x more feeling through your gloved fingertips, right? So when you're operating the most powerful control on the motorcycle (the front brake), do you think it would be better to use your hands, or your feet?

 

Blipping with or without brakes does take practice, to develop your coordination and timing. Just keep at it whenever you're riding, it doesn't need to be a big noisy 3k rpm blip, just a little bit and you'll get the feel for it.

 

I admire your determination to test the limits of your VStrom brakes on the street like that! Hopefully not around too much traffic, eh?

Yes the type of bike and even your body position will play a large role there. I'm sure you can help it along by bouncing the suspension, moving up out of the seat and forwards and timing all that correctly to get the rear wheel off the ground, but that's not really the point... It's possible, but not on every bike in every situation.

[Rolling On While Increasing Lean]

1. Slow going corner. Can you keep the throttle steady on entry and roll on a bit to maintain speed through it? This would be on the street. I'd imagine you'd roll back off a bit after the corner.

 

I think I know what you're talking about... If you want to be able to maintain a speed through a corner, say the limit is 80km/h and you want to just rail through the corners, straights, everywhere on 80 - then yes you will need to apply throttle to maintain speed through the corner. Not only does the action of turning reduce your speed (through drag on the tyres as they're transitioning from upright to lean), but also when you're leant over on the tyre you're rolling on a smaller diameter - basically that's the same effect as a gearing change. Which is the 2nd reason why you need to increase throttle just to maintain your speed. And yes, you would need to decrease your throttle once you exit the turn and the bike is upright. A throttle input that yields 80km/h mid-corner will make you go 80+ when upright.

 

Now, you brought up an interesting topic, which I think is worth more exploration! Many street riders keep the throttle steady while turning the bike, instead of rolling off as they initiate the turn. I did, it, too, and I remember why - but let's hear it from someone else - what makes a rider want to keep the throttle flat while steering the bike, isntead of rolling off, and what false barrier can that create for a rider?

 

Ah yes, my (former) nemesis habit that I carried over to the track and it kept me speed-limited until after I'd attended CSS...

 

So to add another reason why riders want to keep the throttle flat while turning the bike (and by extension through the turn?) it makes sense to look at road design. Roads are designed (mostly) to be easy to navigate. Right? The majority are constant-radius corners, that makes it safe for road users because there aren't any surprises. But how could that make a rider want to hold a constant throttle?

 

Well it makes sense when you consider what is required in order for a motorcycle to hold a constant-radius line through a turn. Add the fact that most riders prefer to sit in the middle of their lane and it just compounds the problem. In order to hold a constant line through a turn you need to maintain throttle. Zero throttle, coasting into a turn would produce a tightening line. Adding throttle into a turn would produce a widening line.

 

Another point is that using a constant throttle seems easy and safe. An inexperienced rider may feel comforted by the knowledge that their constant throttle will produce a constant arcing line, they know exactly where they're going on that constant throttle. In comparison - decelerating or accelerating through a turn introduces a whole bunch of variables, the line changes through the turn and the change isn't necessarily consistent, it's entirely dependant on the riders input.

 

So when you look at it that way, it could be said that road design is tricking new riders and training them to develop bad habits!

 

I wonder how many other people have noticed those same reasons for holding a flat throttle?

[Went Down Yesterday]

Hey Franco, you mentioned that the throttle on your R1 is a bit finicky? I wonder if it could actually be finicky, and not completely down to the fact that you need to do anything too differently? Most bikes are known to have less than ideal fuel mapping from the factory (unless that's changed in recent years..?), but you could benefit greatly from a good dyno tune on your bike. That would be my #1 mod on any new bike. When I got my K6 Gixxer tuned it felt like a completely different bike, so much smoother and predictable, easier to ride faster and find new limits and also easier to ride around town and filter through traffic.

 

As for the problem of starting to accelerate and going wide - I read through the thread and I don't think anyone has yet mentioned one of the key points from CSS Level 1 that deals exactly with the question of when to start opening the throttle when coming out of a turn. I saw that you mentioned you have completely Level 1 so maybe a little recap on this point would be helpful. The answer is simple and at the same time thoroughly comprehensive, if you apply it you ought never run wide ever again (at least not from any kind of confusion over throttle usage).

 

So, how exactly do you know when to accelerate out of a turn?

[Starting Racing]

Hey YellowDuck, what is the main reason you thought you'd give racing a try? Do you mainly want to use it to increase your skills, add to the repertoire? Or is it just for fun (in case you do like it)? Or a bit from column A and a bit of column B?

 

I'm interested to know more about your reasons and about what others have learnt from racing because I've thought about racing in the past as well. But I always get to wondering if I actually would learn anything that could really benefit in street riding or on track days? I don't doubt that there would be some racing-specific things like starts... passing is one thing I really need to work on. Although maybe that's just down to my mentality on a track day - I'm probably overly-courteous and never want to inconvenience anyone else.

 

But the reason I wonder about how much could be learnt is because of this:

 

My mindset for my very first race was this. "I am going to run at my best track day pace". Since a track day is a learning and educational experience we ride at 75%-80% of our abilities. While racing, the goal is 100% right? Well, as with any new experience, maybe your first couple of races is not the time to find your 100%.

 

Remember what we learn from the Twist books? How much can a person learn if they're pushing to 100%? Riding at ~80% is the best level to try and learn things and improve your skills, right? So it seems that racing is what you do to show your stuff, you've still gotta do some learning at other times, on track days etc. And the other point is that if you just want track time you're much better off doing a regular track day. Endurance events would be different I suppose.

 

I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on this? What have current and past racers learnt from racing, that they couldn't have learnt through any other type of riding? And have the racing experiences benefited in other areas - street rides, track days etc.?

[Electronics Dull Us?]

Edited to show another point of view:

 

"I remember Andy Ibbott retelling a story some years ago about the first time he went out on the S1000RR at a BMW launch for journos - the bike was in "wet" mode and when he came up to the braking zone after the straight, he almost sent himself into the sandtrap because he didn't check the mode and available braking power was much less than he assumed "

 

 

An important lesson there (whether you believe the original or the edited version of the story)! Electronics are getting to the stage where different modes etc. will have fairly drastic affect on the bike. So you can't assume anything, if you're riding a new bike you've just got to be aware of all these things. If you jump on a bike with a quick-turn throttle and you're not expecting it, I imagine you could be in trouble as well. Electronics are just another control, same as the throttle or brakes. Learning how to use it correctly is going to become even more important. I say "use it" rather than "get used to it" because there's almost infinite adjustment between the TC/ABS/anti-wheelie/quick-shift/launch control and whatever other electronic aids are invented in the future. And now I guess you can add the 1290 Super Duke R supermoto/"back-it-in" mode into the mix!

 

If you depended on them by pinning the throttle constantly or being really aggressive on the brakes and letting the TC and ABS do their magic all the time over time you might get a bit rusty on a manual bike.

 

Interesting point there... While I've been reading this thread my mind has gone back to various reviews that speak of bikes as being "uncrashable", describing the TC by saying that you can open the throttle as much as you dare on corner exit and it won't set a wheel wrong.

 

Does anyone know if that's actually true of any bike/electronics system? Has anyone ridden a bike and tried this? My experience with a basic aftermarket system tells me that's a gross exaggeration... but now it's got me curious. I think I'll try turning up my TC to maximum on the next track day and see what I can notice. I do like a good experiment!

[Cornering - You Know You're Doing It Right When...]

Haha, I dunno... backing it in one handed still counts for a lot.

 

I wonder what other cool cornering photos there are floating around the 'net?

[Cornering - You Know You're Doing It Right When...]

I guess this raises the bar for all those people who like to show off by dragging a hand along the ground through a corner.

 

 

But how did he get into the corner without using his hands? Must have been that "body steering" I keep hearing about...

(I kid, I kid.)

[Electronics Dull Us?]

Perhaps one thing that people don't often consider is that the electronics available on street bikes now (like the Aprilia RSV4) do have a very real and important benefit of allowing riders to access much more of the bikes performance in a safe and controllable manner. You don't need to buy some complicated aftermarket electronics package to get these benefits, you can have them on a street bike right now!

 

If you're not too sure about electronics I would just say that you should keep a very open mind. It's all about progression... And things have progressed to the point where electronics are here to stay. If you're following EICMA news, take note of how many new bikes are released without ABS.

 

I used to be anti-electronics as well. TVR used to be my ideal car - no power steering, no electronics, a real "drivers car". Or so I thought!

I added Bazzaz Z-Fi TC to my K6 GSX-R mainly for the quickshift and I went with the TC just to try and future proof the bike a bit (it worked, I've still got it and no thoughts of selling it yet). As far as reducing rider feedback or somehow hiding your mistakes, I don't think anything could be further from the truth. TC is not a solution to poor throttle control, and it doesn't hide poor throttle inputs - I can promise you that! If I open the throttle near the edge of the tyre it will slip & slide. If I get too greedy with the throttle on corner exit, the rear will step out big time.

 

The near-highside only happened to me once so far, and I didn't crash. I'd like to think that's mostly because I did the right thing and didn't chop the throttle, but I'm sure the TC helped a little bit there as well. Sure, I could start thinking "oh no, maybe it was only the TC that stopped me from crashing, I'd better turn it off so I can learn to catch a highside myself!" But really I'm just glad that I didn't crash!! It doesn't matter if TC was 100% responsible for that - because that's exactly what it's supposed to do - help to stop you from crashing!

 

Given the performance of modern bikes I don't think that anyone really needs to worry that electronics might limit them somehow. The performance of those bikes are so far above the level of most riders that it's almost to the point where electronics are needed to actually reign them in and make them safe for people with moderate/high skills to ride.

 

Electronics dull us?

In my experience, I don't think so. I can remember when I was just new to riding and was on a track day, came into a corner faster than I had planned to and grabbed the front brake to slow myself down a bit. Picture it - turning into a corner and applying the front brake... what would happen? Well what happened was that I felt the front end shudder and I eased up on the brakes...

 

Now think about the same situation on a bike equipped with ABS. You're turning into the corner and applying the front brake - what do you think you would feel? It seems logical that you would get a very similar feeling from the front end - certainly you would receive feedback indicating that the bike was near the limit. The big difference is that I was probably very close to crashing. But on a bike with ABS you get the feedback, with the added safety margin. That's as good as you can hope from a bad situation!

 

Of course if you ride within your limits and operate the bike controls correctly you'll probably never even notice the electronics are there - but when they do operate you will definitely feel it.

 

Electronics = confidence

Another benefit that I've found is a nice confidence boost. Even though my TC is set to the low-mid range of intervention, the fact that I've got an added safety net has given me confidence to work my way forwards and extend my limits. The knowledge that the TC is there just sits in the back of my mind and I'm much more comfortable to explore things like edge grip, earlier throttle opening etc. And like I mentioned before, the setting I use does allow the rear to slide and even step out if the throttle is really misused, so it's not like the TC is stopping me from experiencing these things and feeling all the kinds of feedback that come with it.

 

Look at it like this - imagine you've on a motocross bike about to attempt a backflip into a foam pit. Yeah you could still seriously hurt yourself, if you really mess it up you could completely overshoot the pit and land on flat ground! But you're going to feel much more confident giving it a try into the foam rather than an actual jump, right? That's a bit of an extreme example to illustrate the benefit of confidence, but you get the point...

 

One of the great things about all these electronics aids is that they're fully adjustable. If you're riding on the street or just want to be very cautious you could turn them up to full. If you're confident in your abilities and just like the idea of some extra safety in case things go really bad, you can run your electronics on the lowest setting. Or just turn them off. No worries - use them however you want!

 

I am very happy to use a bike with electronics aids, give it a go & you might be surprised.