mugget
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Posts posted by mugget
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Sounds good Eirik! Always a great feeling when you try those techniques & do some self-experimentation and see the results firsthand.
On the subject of earlier throttle opening, I'd say that concentrating on the feel of traction at the wheels (particularly the rear wheel) would be of more benefit than judging it by how much you're opening the throttle. For instance if you're concentrating on traction you will know whether you need more/less throttle. However if you're using your concentration on throttle position/throttle use, you could be caught out. Being able to open the throttle almost fully would probably not be a good guide if there was some lack of adhesion condition. At least that's how I see it - that working from bottom up (traction determines throttle use), is more ideal than working from the top down (operating the throttle and seeing what results at the rear wheel). If that makes sense...
ktk_ace - do you think that having a relaxed grip on the 'bars would lessen your ability to be ready? How do you usually make a steering input - do you tighten your grip on the 'bars before pushing on the inside 'bar? Do you think it's possible to maintain a relaxed grip, yet still be able to respond to any road hazards? If so, how could a constantly relaxed grip benefit your riding?
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Based on the two tracks I have ridden so far, the one thing I know is that it is extremely useful to have a more experienced person give me a tow for a few laps, to learn the lines.
Just a note on following other people's lines - I would suggest to be very cautious about that. If they're a coach helping you out with a corner you're having trouble with, fair enough. But in my experience, any people that I have followed around a track (just regular riders, not coaches or instructors) tend to demonstrate the lines not to take! Especially after taking CSS and becoming aware of quick turn, late turn point etc., I now see riders who turn in way too early, and way too lazily. Even if you are following an instructor or lead rider (especially on the first few laps of a session), they may be taking it easy, not necessarily taking lines that would be fastest for them. But even if they were taking their fast lines - that's what is fast for them, it won't necessarily (or probably won't) be fast for you.
So from that point of view, I think it's better to start off by finding your reference points and get familiar with the track, which for me takes at least a few sessions. The last time I rode a new track it actually took me a few days to get completely comfortable with it to the point where I could remember my reference points all the way around the track. How good is your memory? Anyway, once you have your reference points you can start adjusting your turn points based on your ability and how you want to ride. IMO there is no such thing as "the line" or "the race line". There is only your line.
Oh for sure. But, I does leave me wondering what the racers in the big series do when they find themselves at a new track where they have never run before, and need to find their way to a reasonable qualifying time after only one or two practice sessions.
For racers who go fast at new, unseen tracks - I would say that this is down to having fantastic memories, working hard, and their ability to be very accurate with turn points, braking points etc. I can't remember where I read it, but I recall an interview with a racer, or a commentary that basically summed it up in that way.
In order to speed up that process for yourself, maybe it would help to get a track map, and note down your found reference points after each session, along with other relevant notes? Actually that is something that I've done even after learning the track... coming in after each session and looking at the map and making notes can be really helpful in correcting errors and making improvements, whether you know the track or not.
The other thing that racers do is a track walk before they get out there on the bike. If possible, see if you can do that at the new track you go to. I did tuition on the same day that I was first riding a new track, and they took us around in a van, stopping at certain points of interest. For instance a double apex corner that had some positive camber, but if you run out to the 1/3 outside of the track it drops off to negative camber. Picking up info like that I think can be really helpful, whether you get it from a track walk or just talking with regulars.
And like Steve Rutter said, it can't hurt to ride one lap on each side of the track, just to help get a feel for it and give yourself a better idea of how much space you have to work with.
I can't remember if you've attended CSS (your profile says no), but when I did Level 1 it had some great points for teaching riders how to find their own lines.
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I went through a similar type of decision process before I bought my GSX-R1000...
One of the main reasons I wanted the 1000 was because it was a physically larger bike than the GSX-R600 I had prior. I was just getting tired of the cramped riding position. And it's true that any bike will only go as fast as you twist the throttle... but having said that I think I would have benefited more by staying on the 600 a bit longer, and just putting up with the tight riding position.
Another argument in favor of a 600 is that the big power of a 1000 can be a big distraction. And if you're trying to work on improving your cornering, you really don't need any distractions.
But then I have also made the biggest improvements in my riding while I've had the 1000, but I think it's safe to say that is because I've done a lot of training, and most recently did CSS Level 1 which improved my riding way more than anything else. Although I was riding the 1000 for about 3 years before I finally "clicked" with it... I'm sure that would have been different if I had done CSS much sooner. Would I have improved faster if I still had a 600? Hard to say... but I do know that now the only reason I would go back to a 600 would be for cheaper running costs, mainly in rear tyres!
Now on the subject of track prepared bike Vs street bike... I just use my street bike, only because it was the only bike I had and I used it for commuting every weekday plus track days. Now I have another bike for commuting so the Gixxer mainly just sits around between track days, but I've left it in street trim. I just find it simpler to ride out to the track instead of loading a trailer etc.
If you're looking at a track bike, obviously you can't expect to look at the logbook and be happy if it's only been serviced every 6,000km! A tip that someone told me about track bikes: there is no such thing as "service intervals" or "regular maintenance", only the work you're prepared to put in, and the results you want out of the bike. I think that knowing the history of the bike is even more important on an ex-race/track bike.
The other option is to just stick with your CBR600. Things like shock and forks should be serviced every year (maybe two?) anyway. Radiator should be flushed every year as well. Things like that are just basic maintenance jobs that you should be doing regardless of which bike you have. I know it can be tempting to think about getting a newer bike which may not need all that maintenance initially, but it will need it eventually...
As far as the shock - you will have added performance because the shock will do a better job of keeping your rear wheel on the ground! Suspension is one area that people spend a lot of money on... if you can get a decent shock for $100, that will perform much better than your current shock, that seems pretty cheap to me!
All the best with your decision! It's a tough one, but I think for most people it comes down to money. Things are pretty easy when you're realistic about what you can & can't afford.
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Hi all,
Just to check with you guys, we always hear professionals as well as school coaches refer to brake markers. On the track, i did identify my brake marker for all the corners. But during my course of practice, i would tend to always feel that i could drop my braking marker closer to the turn point. But everything i do that, i don't seems to feel comfortable with the high entry speed. Even if trail braking was involve, it does not feel comfortable going in at fast.
Is this normal?
Or could any one advice, how should i practice to feel comfortable with moving my brake marker later to carry a little more entry speed into the turn?
Look forward to hear from the net,
Hi bloodrun,
Good questions!
As far as whether or not this is normal... I think it's important to recognise the fact that just about every single experience felt on a motorcycle is not normal. At least, it's not normal in the sense that in nature, you can't experience anything like the sensations that a modern motorcycle can provide. I guess there can be many different reasons limiting different people, but for me a big step was recognising those reasons why such high speed and lean angles didn't feel natural to me (it's simply because they aren't natural).
On the question of how to practice so you can feel comfortable... again there's many different points that go into this to achieve that one goal. I will just say that for me, increasing my corner entry speed has been one of the biggest things I had to make a conscious effort to work on. It just took a lot of time and effort to keep slowly working and improving the entry speed. So don't feel bad if you're not making fast progress in that area. I spent a lot of time working on that by myself on track days, and when I attended CSS I had a big improvement to my corner entry speed... so I definitely recommend taking the School! But failing that, there's helpful information here and at other places on the forum. And I'm sure that Hotfoot can assist when you're able to respond to that question also.
All the best!
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I don't know about you, but I personally don't bother how fast a bike is, but how fast it feels. Probably because I have no races to win.
Yeah, I am kind of thinking more that way myself. Not exactly wanting a bike that "feels fast" (without actually being fast), but wanting a bike that is exciting to ride. I think a 2-stroke supermoto will do nicely...
Even for people who buy a 600/1000cc sportsbike for track days etc., I'm sure a lot of them like to paper race with mates at the pub, but not many people would use anything close to the power of even the slowest 1000cc bike. If you could see everyones throttle use, I would say that only a handful of riders at any given track day would use literally 100% throttle. Therefore if you're not using 100% throttle, you don't need a bike with more power, right? Actually I need to keep an eye on that myself - thinking back I can't even remember putting the throttle to the stop on the straights... (don't laugh - my regular track has a short straight!)
How's this for a new saying?
"An engine with smooth power delivery is for people who need to work on throttle control."
I couldn't have been happier when I got my bike back after a dyno tune - the power delivery was so smooth and it just felt like a different machine. But then I don't ride to such a high level that I can crack on the throttle and drive with the exactly right amount of rear wheel slip right from the apex, so I obviously do need to work on my throttle control.
But that smooth power delivery doesn't mean the bike doesn't have good throttle response - snap that throttle open and things happen, fast!
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I'll jump in with a piece of advice from one of the books (forget which one now) where you ideally want to be towards the top end of the rev range coming out of the turn, so if the bike does spin up and you get a slide, it only has a few hundred RPM to develop into, rather than several thousand.
I don't recall seeing that in the Twist materials, but do remember seeing that tip on Simon Crafar's DVD...
I haven't been on a bike with traction control but not sure if I want it......seems like it takes the skill building out of the rider and relying more on the technology to make up for your mistakes which I don't think is right.
I would agree that it's not a good plan to rely solely on TC and other electronics as a means to advance your riding. But I also think that it's a mistake to completely write-off electronic aids because you want to be a "real rider", or have some other type of ideal in mind.
A lot depends on the level of adjustment in your TC, and how you have set it up. For example if you have it set to maximum (or a setting that will stop your rear wheel drive at the very first hint of a slide), and complain about not being able to get good drive out of corners - to me that is in the same type of problem category as having 10mm of front sag and 40mm rear sag in your suspension. You have not tuned/adjusted it correctly. In either case it's not necessarily a problem with TC or your suspension, just that you need to adjust it correctly so that it works better for your current intended purpose.
But one thing is for sure - and that is that all the electronic aids available today do let average riders explore more of their bikes potential with a much greater safety margin. But at the same time, TC will not protect you from sloppy or greedy throttle use.
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OK, got it, good. This does bring up some interesting questions, though - when would you want to trail brake, and when wouldn't you? Let's get out of the world of pro racers on gazillion dollar bikes and talk about track day or club level racing on "normal" sportbikes. How do you decide, for each turn, whether to use trail braking, or not? It's a interesting discussion and I'd like to hear your opinions as you think it through.
So...
What are the advantages of trail braking to the apex vs getting most of your braking done when vertical?
What types of turns or situations lend themselves more to trail braking, and what types of turns or situations favor releasing or being off the brakes at your turnpoint, to maximize your quickturn?
When would I want to trial brake...? Almost never, since it just wouldn't be very effective if I'm doing it.
Trail braking is not something that I've tried to work on, at the moment my big focus is on improving my quick turn. But whenever I have trail braked (on the street or track) it's just been instinctive, and I'd say not very hard braking either (by trail braking standards). But that's a tricky topic as well - because how can I really judge which turns could benefit from trail braking if I'm judging them based on my own limited trail braking ability? Or maybe I'm just overthinking things... I suppose the answer is to develop both my quick turn and trail braking abilities to a high level, then I really will be better able to judge particular situations that would benefit from either technique.
At the moment my thought process & experience has lead me to use trail braking regularly only on one particular corner at a track I ride. It's over a fairly long left hand crest which tightens into something like a narrow single lane before a little right hand turn. Because it's out of a slow-ish corner I'm accelerating while turning left up over the crest until I spot the narrowing section. Then because the track is still turning left there isn't really any option to do heavy braking with the bike vertical, if I need to slow down, I need to do it while turning. So I guess that's a really specific example of where you're forced to either trail brake, turn in & try your luck, or chicken out and run on.
As for how I decide when to use quick turn or trail braking - if I can brake hard with the bike vertical, that pretty much guarantees I'm going to quick turn that corner.
At least on the track I regularly ride, it's only that one long left hander where I need to slow down while the bike is leaning.But generally speaking, the advantage for me of getting most braking done while vertical is that it's safer.
(I still have a crash-free record on-track, just call me Captain Safety!) I know that I can brake hard when the bike is vertical, even if I don't get the speed exactly right it's close enough that I still just perform the quick turn, then stay off the throttle a little bit if I need to tighten the line or slow down while cornering. Knowing how much the bike will slow down simple from the act of cornering is a big safety net for me in pushing my turn points later or trying a faster entry speed. If I was braking so late that I had to hold the brake all the way to the apex, I'd probably be stressing out big time!Actually that brings up another point - how to best learn/improve trail braking ability? I guess there isn't any kind of safety net or backup technique that you can use? I mean if you mess up your trail braking by locking the front wheel, chances are you're crashing. So it seems like you've just gotta take the risk, and add brake pressure very very gradually and look for any signs that you're putting too much load on the tyre - things like the tyre shuddering, skipping, or the bike just generally starting to tie itself in knots and act upset?
Maybe I could benefit from trail braking just to edge inside slower riders... thinking about that now, passing is not my strong point!
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Wow - scary stuff! I have only had a tank slapper incident once, and I don't care to repeat it again...
I would be taking a really close look at every possible detail & scenario to try and find what caused that. As scary as the tank slapper would have been, in my mind it's even more scary not to know what caused it - because if you don't know what caused it, you won't know what to avoid in the future and there's no guarantee it won't happen all over again!
Bet you were surprised to see your knee slider mark up the top of the tank! Strange things happen... a mate stacked my XR400 motard once on a slightly downhill, open piece of road and it ended up with scratch marks on top of the front mud guard.
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But then is learning the quick turn ability even any use? What is the point to it?! If trail braking is a valid technique that is likely to be used regularly during a race, and this limits the use of the quick turn technique... why not just focus on learning trail braking and not worry about quick turns?
I would say that at the very least, a rider who wants to ride to a high level must have a very good understanding of just how fast the maximum turn speed (upright to full lean) is. This has to be an important part of understanding the machine's and the rider's own limits. Once the rider starts to gain an understanding of the max turn speed, they can more accurately factor in the effect of trail braking, etc.
Sorry if that last paragraph gave anyone the wrong idea... just to clarify, I do think it's important to have a strong quick turn ability. Very important! Those points that you mentioned Hotfoot especially show just how important and useful a strong quick turn ability is.
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Thinking about this subject some more I recalled the section on quick turn/quick steer/quick flick (I can't remember the actual term used...) in the Twist II DVD. Can anyone else remember the conditions under which you will not be able to perform a quick turn?
...So obviously there are some circumstances that limit a riders ability to quick turn, it follows that trail braking and other factors would also limit the opportunity to perform a "pure" quick turn.
It seems like there's a bit of confusion over that kind of "pure" quick turn (in which time taken from upright to max lean is the main consideration and goal, for example if the use of brakes limit the time taken to turn - they would not be used) and the "steering rules" (which apply to all kinds of cornering, even if trail braking and other factors are involved). So to apply this to racing - I think everyone can agree that during a race a rider will be faced with many considerations other than just focusing on the shortest possible time from upright to full lean every corner?
But then is learning the quick turn ability even any use? What is the point to it?! If trail braking is a valid technique that is likely to be used regularly during a race, and this limits the use of the quick turn technique... why not just focus on learning trail braking and not worry about quick turns?
I would say that at the very least, a rider who wants to ride to a high level must have a very good understanding of just how fast the maximum turn speed (upright to full lean) is. This has to be an important part of understanding the machine's and the rider's own limits. Once the rider starts to gain an understanding of the max turn speed, they can more accurately factor in the effect of trail braking, etc.
Now having said that - could there be any circumstances during a race when focusing on quick turn (rather than late braking & trail braking) could actually be beneficial? Some hypothetical situations have been mentioned, but I remembered this interesting example from the Philip Island 8-Hour that took place in December last year. This was said after the CSS Superstock 600 entry broke the gear shifter:
'[/color]] "Also given that the stints were long, and we had a front tyre to preserve, we actually ended up pretty much racing around in three gears with light brakes. Funnily enough this is actually the riding format we use at the school for students in one particular exercise. To our surprise our times actually got faster riding in that way, and the tyre wear improved too!"Using that riding style they gained back some positions moving from 11 laps down, finishing only 1 lap behind the leaders! They finished 2nd in Superstock 600 and 8th overall out of a 25 bike grid which also included Superbike, Supersport, Superstock 1000.
I thought that was really interesting - a real life race application of quick turn!
You can find that news item here if you want: http://www.superbike.../sbs_news/id/27
Maybe street riders can also benefit greatly from riding in a similar manner? This photo shows the result of a lot of late braking/trial braking riding the streets around Mulholland/The Snake area (tyre sides worn right down, it probably wouldn't look like this if it had been ridden using more of a quick turn style):
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is it just me or is there any one else who is scared of leaning into a corner ?
Absolutely! I definitely started off with that feeling (still working on it even now, to some degree). I reckon that anyone who says they were never afraid of big lean angles is either lying, or just can't remember back far enough to when they were scared...
Sounds like you will gain a lot from the School!
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I am a bit both ways... new technology has helped to improve my riding. But old technology has also helped to improve my riding!
After I put the Bazzaz system on my Gixxer I started to rely on the traction control as a bit of a "mental crutch". Not that I was really pushing it enough to constantly engage the TC (doing so with this type of TC is actually a slower way to ride), I was wondering if it was really turned on at all because I still had plenty of small rear wheel slides and even then occasional rear wheel stepping out of line. But I still rode with the thought of the TC safety net in the back of my mind. Combined with learning quite a bit more about cornering at CSS I have made much more progress on this 1000 than I did on my 600! Also I know the TC is actually working because a few weeks ago I took off from a set of lights and heard the exhaust popping and spluttering. Strange sensation, sounded awesome.
Now I also find myself on the streets at low 1st gear speeds (20-40km/h) being able to crack on the throttle just the right amount to feel the rear tyre really dig in and grip up. Not sure how much of that is down to the TC or just plain old throttle control & feel, but I've never been able to do that before. I actually had to check myself on that because it seemed like I was starting to get a bit "racey" for street riding... On the other side of things, I've also improved since I have been riding my old beaten-up XR400 motard. Nothing fancy there, air cooled and relatively low power - but sticky tyres... It's been much less intimidating to push the limits on the motard, and I feel like I've been able to use it to develop my feel for grip and learn more about earlier throttle opening in corners. I think that anything to help a rider understand tyre grip etc. is cumulative, so whether the latest superbike or an underpowered dirt bike, it can all add up to have quite a benefit.
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I found the video I was thinking of in another thread. From memory this rider was backing into this turn for the whole race prior to this incident... it just goes to show that even the professionals sometimes get it wrong. Just posting this so you can be aware of the potential consequences and make your decisions accordingly...
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A- They trail the brakes heavily and a quick-turn might result in a front end slide?
This makes sense. If the braking forces are higher, the steering forces must be less to allow for the (greater) braking force.
B- Protecting their inside line and so have to turn earlier rather than later?
On this subject I recall a very interesting series of interviews with Mat Mladin (these are available on YouTube, uploaded by On The Throttle). Mat was asked about corner speed and he made the comment that if he was behind a rider who was lining up a corner for best speed - he would simply trail brake, get in front of them, and then what use is their corner speed? They have to slow down behind him. So it seems like that is definitely one reason why racers use a different line during a race, especially if someone is right on their tail.
C- They are going that much faster that the gyro forces are harder to overcome?
You bet! When I started out trying to quick steer on one particularly fast corner, I was trying to use a later turn point, but it was actually limiting my speed because I just could not (or was not confident enough) to put enough force into the handlebar to achieve the turn rate I needed for that late turn point. To give a rough example of how much force I was using... imagine going to the gym and putting 40kg worth of plates on a desktop, then sitting at the desk and trying to give a quick push to move that weight... that's much more force than I would ever think of using in a slower corner. To increase my speed through that fast corner I actually made my turn point earlier. This is because the gyro force at high speed takes more effort to overcome... my steering input takes longer to complete. So the earlier turn point is needed because I need to push on the handlebar for say 2 seconds to reach the appropriate lean angle (whereas a slower corner may require a steering input of only 1 second or less). The difference is quite dramatic, trying to force the late turn point I was entering the turn a bit less than 200km/h. Using the later turn point I am around 220km/h as I tip in.
It's been stated over and over that you should be off the brakes when turning in so you have all grip available for turning. Not by Keith, and probably not by instructors, but definitely by forum members.Not sure if you're thinking of just me, but I have said something along those lines. Those comments have always been in discussion of the safest way to increase corner speed/steering speed and gain confidence in doing so. (Pretty sure I commented most recently along these lines in the "Drill for learning to trust the tyres" thread.) Tips and advice for someone who does not have the greatest confidence, and is looking to improve that will be very different to the tips and advice given to a racer or experienced/accomplished rider... To sum up the "off the brakes, then turn" reasoning, it is simply that by entering a corner that way you cannot turn too fast (practically speaking... I am not inviting an argument with a physicist!), and can be confident that no matter how fast you turn in you will not slide the front tyre (as always, dependant on good bike, tyres & road/track surface etc.) But when you add in the front brake to this equation... especially in racing if you look at all the front end slides that you can find, it will always be caused by too much application of the front brake! (Maybe some very rare situations when additional steering inputs contribute... but even then I cannot recall a situation where front brake was not applied...) So yes there is definitely a purpose for the front brake and trail braking, but let's not confuse advice aimed at methods of improving safety and gaining confidence with racing advice...
This deserves repeating... as Keith would say, "repeat 100 times after me..."
The rule is "Steer as quickly as possible in every turn." "... the as-quickly-as-possible is tailored to the turn..."From what I can see in racing, I would say that this definitely applies! There is not one steering rate that qualifies as a "quick steer", it's relative to a lot of things like speed, gyro forces, braking etc. But if you want to see an example of left to right apex-to-apex steering speed, look back to one of this years MotoGP races (shame on me for not being able to remember which one... maybe Sachsenring? Maybe not...). The part of track I'm thinking of is an uphill hairpin, left turn entry and right turn exit. It didn't seem like any brakes were used there, so this would be one of the few places to observe steering inputs that are uninhibited by front brake use (although there would still be throttle use, which makes it even more amazing). One camera angle in particular showed a head-on shot... I will just say that if you saw a rider on a road or local track steering that fast going from knee to knee, you would be in awe! I was just watching it on TV, and I was in awe! There's no mistaking that racers, especially World Championship racers steer very fast!
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Oh man... when I saw this video I was sure that I've now seen it all from that corner! Rnickeymouse's YouTube channel surely is a wealth of information... vicariously crashing so we don't have to make the same mistakes ourselves!
He copped a nice headbutt from the screen/triple clamps didn't he? At least it's a good advertisement for full gear...
At that point he would have gained more points for pinning the throttle and turning it into an impromptu hill-climb competition!
Okay, all jokes aside - Ballistic do you mean try and push the bike down for some quick lean angle/turning to stay on the road? In case you didn't think of that in time, do you think it would be better to try and put the bike down as soon as you get on the dirt? E.g. braking hard on the road and just leaving the brakes on once you hit the dirt to put the bike down? Although that could go down real quick and the rider could easily land on his shoulder and break a collarbone or something.. but then at least you're not carrying speed up a rocky incline! The lesser of two evils and all that...
But really we all know that it's better not to get in that situation in the first place!
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Welcome resident trouble maker. Although with a name like that I do wonder if we should really be welcoming you or keeping you at bay...
Nah - just kidding!
Cya around the forums, and have fun at your CSS days! -
Hi diesel, welcome to the forum!
Another Gixxer fan... I have the K6 myself - this one is a keeper! Don't let the rain keep you indoors, just get out there!
Although I suppose if you ride for a living, you're not afraid of a little water!Feel free to jump into any threads and leave your own comments, or ask questions of your own. Cya 'round the forums.
Cheers,
Conrad
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Tonight I just learnt another interesting fact about the "certified stickers" used in Australia. Maybe other parts of the world use something similar...
The interesting thing is that the print used on the sticker (at least on the SAI Global type, and especially the red colour) will actually fade with UV exposure (sunlight). I'm not sure if this is an intended design feature or just a natural byproduct - but it's a good measure of how old & "used" a helmet really is. If the sticker is faded, you probably should retire the helmet if you're wanting to do things by the book...
This makes sense because my Dad and I both bought Shoei XR1000's at the same time. However I used mine quite a bit (5-6 days a week for the first 3 or so years that I had it), Dad did not ride quite so much. Especially the last few years he hasn't ridden at all, so the helmet has been in a cupboard. In the meantime I have decided to retire my XR1000 because the padding had started to disintegrate. I pulled out Dad's XR1000 from the cupboard and have worn it a couple of times - the foam is in good condition and it fits properly! Gradually the padding in mine had compressed so it was fitting looser, didn't notice it because it happened gradually - but it was actually quite loose!
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Hey Evans, plenty of good info here... but here's my take on helmets...
I'm not sure where you live, but most likely any helmets you buy will have to meet a certain safety rating. For example in Australia all helmets must meet a certain standard, otherwise they cannot be sold. So you can walk into any shop and buy any helmet - you absolutely cannot buy an "unsafe helmet" (at least as far as safety ratings etc. go). Maybe things are similar where you live.
Also with the different brands, it's not just sizing that may differ, but also the actual shell shape. For instance I have heard of people who have "uncommon" shaped heads sticking to one brand just because of the shell shape. Some people have Arai heads, others have Shoei heads, etc...
On price - generally I would say that all you get in a more expensive helmet are pretty graphics and better features like more ventilation, easier to use buckles & visor change system etc. Like I mentioned about safety (at least in Australia) all helmets meet the basic safety requirements, so the cheapest helmet may very well provide just as much protection as the most expensive one! I am going to try this out myself with a $70 full face helmet from Aldi that I can keep as a spare... (if there are any left in stock on Monday.)
The other thing to consider is the physical size of the helmet. While you're trying a helmet in the shop it may be worth sitting on your bike (or a similar one on the shop floor) and just try simple things like shoulder checks etc. I only mention this point because my first helmet was a Shoei, which was really nice, no problems. But I bought another helmet which is a KBC and it's much bulkier, the Shoei is no where near as wide by comparison. The KBC is so bulky that it hits my shoulder every time I do a shoulder check on the streets. I have to get my bum off the seat and actually turn my body around a bit if I want to do a proper shoulder check while wearing the KBC.
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Great work YellowDuck! Also glad to hear that you're staying relaxed and not feeling that you need to push beyond your limits to make those improvements. So many people say that you need to "be brave" or have "big balls" to go really fast, but I don't agree with that at all. Once you understand exactly what you're doing and how your inputs will affect the outcome, you can methodically work at improvements without risking anything and without riding over your limit. Don't get me wrong, it's still exciting to tip into a corner trying your best quick steer at over 200km/h, but like you say there's no "oh sh*t" moment, you know you're going to make it - and that is the way to be. Nice report.
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Absolutely - different tyres will give very different levels of wet weather traction. But one of the main points that I wanted to make is that "riding to the conditions" includes not only riding according to the weather, but also what tyres are on the bike...
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Dang!!! I can't believe that guy put his hand down!
Talk about survival reactions and incorrect response...Anyway, Lnewqban explained it pretty well. To take it further and apply it to some riding situations I would add this:
Steering when the rear wheel is sideways: A potentially very risky proposition I would say! Yes you can probably get away with a small slide okay, but as the slide is larger, the stakes are higher. A potential downside comes to mind - what happens if the rear tyre suddenly regains grip? That is a recipe for a highside. So the whole manoeuvre depends on the rear tyre sliding in a predictable manner and gradually falling back into line behind the front wheel at some point during the turn. Also note that many times this does not go to plan, even for racers. (Actually, you can have the rear wheel sliding through the whole turn, but then it's not so much "cornering" as "drifting". And I have only ever seen stunt riders do that... Check the ICON car Vs. bike drift videos for reference.)
One AMA Superbike (I think) race in particular comes to mind, it could have been in 2010 or 2011 & I'm not sure which track... a rider was entering a turn, backing it in with spectacular style but then it all went wrong & he crashed out... the interesting thing is that the rider following him was riding wheels in line - and was gaining on him! There have been other threads on this forum talking about backing it in, what it comes down to is the fact that it's not the fastest way around a track. Great to watch, but not fast.
The other thing to consider when you see racers backing it in (Moto2, etc.) is the question of whether or not they actually prefer it to back in... I think many times it's simply due to reduced tyre grip. It seems like they would actually prefer to ride wheels in line, but it's often as the race progresses that more people start sliding the rear. One other thing which may may be especially relevant to those hard-riding Moto2 racers is the fact that if your "quick turn" ability is developed to a very high level, you can actually steer so fast that the rear wheel will break traction.
Rear wheel off the ground when steering: Many variables in this situation as well. I imagine that the highside danger is still there if you start to turn and the rear wheel touches down too far out of line with the front... Also - doesn't counter steering require that both wheels be on the ground? If the rear wheel is in the air and you push on the inside handlebar, won't the wheel point to the outside of the turn, and the bike follow it?
If you have a rear tyre to burn and are willing to try some things, you could practice some rear wheel lockups and see how steering inputs affect the bikes behaviour. Try this at your own risk... If you have access to a dirt bike that could be a great way to get an understanding of how a sliding rear wheel can affect steering inputs.
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If I can add another question to this thread... I noticed that line on the left hand side of the rear tyre, which sits about half way between the centre and the edge. I've noticed something similar on my tyres (Power Pure at the time I think) and always wondered what it's caused by... is that something to do with the manufacturing? You've said that there's nothing really to worry about, so I'm guessing that line is not a "problem", but I'm still wondering what it's caused by?
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Bit of an old thread, but I can add a couple of points...
Does anyone else ride DOT race tires as their primary tire on their street bike?
I have done something like this for a little while (a few years or so). My street bike is my track bike, so it was a hassle to keep changing tyres depending on track or road use. The first set of tires I did a lot of road riding on were Bridgestone 002. I really liked the tall, triangular profile on the street, but after maybe 1,000km of highway riding they were really chewed out on the centre (this bike was a GSX-R600). That was the only time I did a big trip on that kind of sport tire. They're not cheap, and it's just not worth it for me. For a long time I did keep my track tires on the bike, but then i was only commuting into the city, about 20km each direction. That's not really much, didn't affect the tires drastically. But I try not to do that now because of risk of punctures! At one stage I got 3 rear punctures in about 3 months! Sure I got them plugged, but then they were only good for street riding anyway.
The Pures seem to turn in slightly quicker on my bike, that may be the 2 lbs of unsprung weigth they are supposed to save you, or it could be all in my head
. I will back this up! Very noticeable difference the first set of Power Pures I had fitted. I rode my bike to the shop on a set of Power Road 2's, rode out with the Power Pure's and really felt the decreased tire weight. The seat 'o the pants dyno never lies, right?!
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S1000Rr Crash (Not Me!)
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Wow - I thought the crash was going to be as he was exiting the first right hand corner. He sure looked to have gunned the throttle while still carrying a bit of lean angle!
Also the video states that he had a broken ankle, just to add insult to injury as the saying goes. Although I guess the broken ankle was the injury, and the smashed bike was the insult.