rchase
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Posts posted by rchase
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I have had a few left vs rights debate at the track. At one track, my rights don't feel as comfortable but at another track I felt fine with both. Another person was more comfortable with rights a year ago but now prefers lefts. It is an interesting comparison because he is left handed also. Our conclusion was that there was no rhyme or reason to it. Just something you have to work through. Figured it was worth mentioning at least.
That's quite possible as well. I'm making some pretty decent progress with a more aggressive body position. My problems might just be related to getting adjusted to being farther off the bike. I am going to explore the hand thing though. Have a few more track days before it gets too cold even way down south.
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Even though I don't use them I'm glad a couple of my bikes have slipper clutches. They are a GREAT backup in case you make a mistake.
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Great photo!
Yeah that's great example of what I'm trying to do with my hand. I talked to a good friend about it tonight and it seems that the problem is when I do this to drop my elbow I'm doing it at the wrong time. On the left it's not critical "when" you put your hand in that position but on the right hand side you have the throttle. It's more difficult to change your hand position in the middle of a roll on. I'm going to be more mindful of this the next time I'm at the track and see if that improves my right hand turning.
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Come to streets next year and spend a day getting sucked into the bowl at high speed, you'll have your right turns sorted out in no time
Quite tempting.
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Steven,
When you are hanging off the side of the bike to allow you to drop your elbow further you can use a "screwdriver like" grip on the bar. It allows you to shift the weight lower and get your upper body lower on the bike.
Actually now that you mention it I don't remember it being in the books but I was taught this while taking Level 3 at the school.
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Careful with that attention stuff, you only have so much before you become overdrawn
Absolutely a valid point and something I really do think about. The faster I go I still only ride up to 80% to stay well within my SR free zone.
Thank you for mentioning it though! It's never a bad time to be reminded about the finite nature of attention.
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Steve,
Slow down and learn your bike. Thinking too much, too many things at one time etc...
Your charging again
Find a nice straight or empty parking lot to practice those downshifts, then you do not have to think (worry) about the upcoming turn. Try your shifts in the 4-6K range and wait until csmith post up a vid of how to properly blip a vtwin into 1st gear before you try it
btw: Relax!
Actually. This is good advice. I have to be honest and mention I have given up temporarily on rev match downshifting while on the brakes to free my attention on other elements of my riding at the moment. It's one "extra" thing to think about and it's not quite as important as other elements such as body position and making it through the corner. I still do rev match out of habit. I might even stop doing that temporarily to free even more attention.
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I bet your not repositioning your grip because it hasn't played in with a more aggressive body position, until now.I have not really thought about when I reposition my grip. I'll have to pay attention to that more the next time I find myself in a right hand turn.
That's entirely possible. Something to observe and pay more attention to very soon.
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COnsider trying to find out what you don't like about rights and working on it.Try relaxing your grip and opening the index and middle finger a bit.
That's interesting about the index and middle finger. Something to consider.
While I was just sitting here I put my hand in the standard position to "roll on" the gas. It's a simple and fluid motion.
The "screwdriver" grip roll on is a bit more complex. Try doing a roll on in that position with an invisible throttle and watch your wrist. Interesting eh?
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Relax your grip Robert.
Could it be that you are over thinking (working) your right hand?
Which would you consider more important at the moment, Body position or right hand grip position?
When would you want to reposition your grip?
1) When still on the gas
2) While braking and downshifting
3) As you make your turn in
Jeff
Good advice on relaxing. I find myself "tensing up" a bit after getting into position. I'm gradually using a much more aggressive body position and quite honestly it feels unnatural most of the time. It feels most natural on the left. Probably because there's not a throttle over there.
I have not really thought about when I reposition my grip. I'll have to pay attention to that more the next time I find myself in a right hand turn.
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It's pretty easy.
Use two fingers to brake. Place your two fingers in the slightly curved area of the brake lever. Squeeze the lever and brake and hold constant pressure. While blipping allow your whole hand to move and allow the fingers to "slip" in the curved area on the lever. You are holding the throttle with only your two outer fingers so your entire hand pivots on that axis.
Here's a photo of the curved area on a brake lever.
A good way to practice is to separate braking and shifting into two separate events. Practice braking with two fingers to get used to the sensation. Then practice rev matched downshifts separately. When you master both on their own combining them together is much simpler.
I'm actually having issues with this on my new BMW. The factory levers were not shaped well so I moved to the HP levers. They also have some shape issues. Do any of the coaches have any advice on how to do this on levers without the smooth "slip area"?
Hey rchase,
I greatly appreciate your input. I'm pretty consistent and good at the blip rev match (as far as the timing is concerned). The bike never pogos from it and I don't let the clutch off too slow (If I use the clutch at all) and when braking I always use two fingers. I do have stock levers and I may benefit from getting some shortys. I actually really like the design of the levers you posted a picture of.
It's the sliding of the fingers that I have a problem with. As I'm blipping the throttle, I wind up pulling on the brake more which causes the bike pogo a bit. Just doesn't feel very smooth.
The trick is to turn that rearward motion going into the brake lever into an upward motion moving your finger across the lever. Practice makes perfect.
Just a disclaimer. This is a method I figured out on my own and might not be "the best way". Obviously it does not work with all lever shapes.
This is a video of Joe Roberts at Laguna. He's using his two middle fingers and that's a technique I'm going to work on in the future for my BMW levers.
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I never really realized this until someone pointed it out to me. I prefer left hand turns for some strange reason. I went and looked at my datalogger and lo and behold I'm using more lean angle on the left vs the right and higher corner speeds on the left rather than the right. My theory at the moment is that while hanging off on the right hand side the throttle is on the inside and I'm probably not 100% comfortable with the "screwdriver grip" on the throttle while rolling on. Any thoughts of things I could try to resolve this?
I'm probably going to go out to my bike in a bit on the stands and hang off the side and practice with the throttle for a bit.
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It's pretty easy.
Use two fingers to brake. Place your two fingers in the slightly curved area of the brake lever. Squeeze the lever and brake and hold constant pressure. While blipping allow your whole hand to move and allow the fingers to "slip" in the curved area on the lever. You are holding the throttle with only your two outer fingers so your entire hand pivots on that axis.
Here's a photo of the curved area on a brake lever.
A good way to practice is to separate braking and shifting into two separate events. Practice braking with two fingers to get used to the sensation. Then practice rev matched downshifts separately. When you master both on their own combining them together is much simpler.
I'm actually having issues with this on my new BMW. The factory levers were not shaped well so I moved to the HP levers. They also have some shape issues. Do any of the coaches have any advice on how to do this on levers without the smooth "slip area"?
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I think I have had similar experiences on an old section of deserted interstate.
Just in case anybody's wondering. That image was taken at Roebling Road. There's no way I would want to do those kinds of speeds on a public road!
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161 mph in 4th gear. Wheeee!
I hate to feed your addiction too much, but you know you could gear it down a bit and get even more acceleration out of it....
I'll file that one away for future use. Certainly a VERY fun idea!
Before I do that though there's several things I already see that I can fix in my riding to make that number higher. The exit off of the final turn into the straight is a 100mph+ sweeper that I'm not getting all of the speed out of on the exit. Although I could be wrong on that as I'm getting some minor wiggles already when I get on the power. I'm also running in sport mode to dial back the some of the drama factor that I'm "almost" ready for. There's also the braking factor which involves a lot more experience and courage. If you think I'm on the gas right up to the numbers you would be very much mistaken.
I managed to acquire some data off of a much more experienced riders data logger that will give me some additional ideas on what I can get away with safely. The rider that I got the data from is a very experienced racer and I'm fully aware of my limitations and I'll approach this with caution.
One of the MOST rewarding parts for me about riding on the track is taking something that scares the absolute bejezus out of me and turning it into something I look forward to on every lap. Some of my favorite turns at Barber were ones that initially stumped or terrified me. Without the advice I got in this thread that long straightaway at Roebling would have been short shifted and long and dreadful on every single lap. Thank you guys!
Hotfoot. I think the term "addiction" is a very good description. That acceleration should be sold in plastic baggies and sold on street corners instead of in BMW showrooms.
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Nice improvement Robert! It's good to hear you're making such good progress combining your experiences at the school with the great info here on the forum to continue improving. Impressive! Keep up the great work and keep us all in the loop.
Now tape that friggin' speedometer!
At 161 MPH, you're travelling at 236 feet per second. Can you recall from school academics how long it takes you to look down at the speedo, focus on it, read and interpret it, look back up and focus on the track again? How long is a football field? 
Benny
Oh trust me I don't look! I can barely keep up with the tach and other things. I probably should tape it but I forget sometimes. All of my good training at the school makes it not even exist to me 99.9% of the time. It's the .1% that will get you though so food for thought.
As for the school experience and forum advice. It's an awesome combo. It helps me develop my "list" for next year and things to work on when I'm at the track. Perhaps the most interesting thing is the more I learn the bigger my list becomes. Scratch one problem off and another one comes up. I don't mind though. It's a lot of fun.
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Indeed. My grin was much bigger at the time though.
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So reading over this topic leads me to a question. It's been stated a couple of times that adding lean + throttle roll on is bad juju and I agree with that. I wonder however how weight and a geometry shift might affect such a scenerio? The hook turn drill that the superbike school teaches could be used to add a geometry change and weight shift to tighten the line. Would that help or hurt a going wide situation while on the power?
Hook turn helps to tighten the line by shifting weight forward and inside, which helps compress the forks, changing the geometry and tightening the line without having to add more lean. However, rolling on the throttle strongly creates the opposite effect, shifting weight rearward and increasing speed which will widen your line. A strong roll-on on a bike with decent horsepower could overcome the effect of the hook turn position. Hook turn is most effective when used before you start driving out of a corner, or can be used in combination with going 'flat' on the throttle (pausing your roll-on) briefly, which you might do in the middle of a double apex corner.
To answer your question, it wouldn't hurt, it would help, but the effect of accelerating the bike would be much stronger, so it likely wouldn't help dramatically. It's a much more effective tool when used at the beginnning of a turn.
Thanks for the detail. That's VERY helpful and also touches on "why" bikes run wide which I never really thought about before now.
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It took me a while to find this topic again. I wanted to share an image from this past Monday. Due to the advice I got here on body position, aerodynamics and other tips and tricks I was quite calm and comfortable doing speeds like this down the straight. Something that would scare me to death previously is easy, repeatable and not that big of a deal anymore. It even makes holding the camera easier (JUST KIDDING! it's an onboard camera).
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So reading over this topic leads me to a question. It's been stated a couple of times that adding lean + throttle roll on is bad juju and I agree with that. I wonder however how weight and a geometry shift might affect such a scenerio? The hook turn drill that the superbike school teaches could be used to add a geometry change and weight shift to tighten the line. Would that help or hurt a going wide situation while on the power?
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Mazur,
I also don't have anything useful to add to the quest of "why" it happened. I will however point out that the fact that since you are interested in the "why" already put's you ahead of many riders out there. Crashes always suck but you can turn them into a learning experience as you are doing.
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Welcome to the forum. Lots of great information here.
A few questions for you. Has your bike been setup for rider sag? Tell us a bit about your braking as you come in for your approach to the corner.
As ScrmnDuc mentioned appropriate speed is very important as well as relaxing.
A wise man that wrote some very helpful books mentioned once "Approach at a speed where you know you can make the turn". Going in too fast can set off SR's especially if the bike gets out of shape and ruin the corner speed due to not being able to get on the power for the exit. If your entry is too fast you might find the "Discharging" drill helpful.
I actually had some problems with too slow corner entry speeds due to some visual issues. Keeping a wide view and doing the 2 step and 3 step drill is very helpful for resolving "in too slow" issues.
Do you think your entry is too slow or too fast?
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Despite the differences between machinery grip works the same way. You can lean so much and brake so much. They went past those limits and crashed. The solution would be to use less lean angle or brake less aggressively. That's easier said than done in a race situation of course.
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A friend of mine was talking about this to me. Found an article that might answer your question. Quick answer? Tires. Front ones.
How Do You Maintain Your Leathers And Boots?
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
I don't do a lot to mine. I try to keep the dead bugs off of them. About once a year I clean them with a cloth with some mild detergent and then use leather conditioner on them. If they start looking icky I'll clean them and condition them ahead of the once a year schedule. Using an under garment keeps the sweat away from the suit and makes it more comfortable to wear. I have yet to have to pull a mesh liner out and wash it and I don't think I'm stinking up the track.
Mine stay pretty clean from rash but that's something to think about as well after a crash. There's a number of companies that deal with repair and reconditioning. Barnacle Bill's is pretty good from what I hear. They can dye, repair, sew and pretty much anything else you might need.
http://www.racingleather.com/
If you are running "older" gear replacement of armor might be a good idea. Knox sells a pretty large selection of replacement armor for the inside of suits. The foam that is used in suits is "similar" to that of helmets. It looses it's energy absorption capabilities over time just like a helmet.
One other thing to think about. You may want to consider investing in a back protector. Many track organizations require one and it's not a bad idea really even if it's not required. I used to detest wearing one myself until I bought a Knox Aegis vest. You can't even tell you are wearing it.
http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Detail.bok?no=15532