rchase
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Posts posted by rchase
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Sitting on 400 lbs of metal getting pushed through the atmosphere at over 100 mph just seems a tad unnatural...
That's actually what I love about it. One of the biggest joys for me in learning is taking something completely alien and making it suddenly work for me.
I had a lot of apprehension towards high speeds for the longest time so I know exactly where you are coming from. I used to wish for tracks with short or non existent straights. Once I faced that apprehension triple digit speeds are like crack and I just want to go faster. I found myself pushing for faster and faster speeds. People must have thought I was crazy heading back and forth between my bike with a USB drive each session and cackling with delight looking at the data.
Fastest I have been so far is 154 on the straight at Roebling off of the GPS in my datalogger. I'm going to slowly improve on that figure. There's a lot more speed available on that straight with my S1000RR that I'm just not using yet. Like corners it's an internal battle with your own mind. I love that.
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It always freaks me out when I get off the bike and realize I just went 140 on that tiny thing. But when you're on it, it doesn't seem all that crazy :-)
Perhaps I'm bent but when I look at the datalogger afterwards it makes me cackle with delight.
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Challenge question for everyone: How is PittsDriver's patience shown in the video? Hint: It is NOT while on the brakes or brake related.
I saw several places on the video where he could have easily gotten by by predicting the riders line. He hung back a bit and let them make the first move rather than predicting and potentially guessing wrong. He also slowed his speed and left a reasonable amount of room.
I honestly wish more people were that courteous on the track. I think it's the sign of a superior rider myself.
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I really, really liked how courteous your riding was to others. That attention to keeping everyone safe despite any skill/speed differences really goes a long way to keep everyone’s day a fun one. I also liked your level of patience. And… your riding was good too. I enjoyed the vid, thanks for posting.
I noticed this too. Agree 1000%.
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I'm not sure of the rules of the org so I'm going to assume you were fine passing the CR. CR's deal with lots of different people of different skill sets and often get a bit nervous with people they don't know. They see way too many times what happens when people run out of skill. Lots of people hit the track with zero experience and lose their minds and crash. He just gave you a closer look and was comfortable with you and let you move on. If he had been uncomfortable with your riding he would have not waved you by and spent more time coaching. It sounds like you have a decent org. I have been to orgs that have 3 full sessions of no passing follow the leader before they even consider setting you loose in Novice even if they already know you and know you are safe.
I think you handled it correctly. Move when you are ready and don't rush things. Quite honestly I would stick around in Novice for a bit. This accomplishes a few goals. The most useful is being able to get practice reading other riders intentions when the speeds are lower and there's a little less risk involved for passing. The second is it allows you to ride at your pace. Novice is a bit slower and if you wanted to loaf around a little to practice drills you could comfortably do that without any worry of being in the way. If you want to go faster you get passing practice. It also is pretty awesome for making you feel good that you are the fastest bike on the track for a while beyond the feel good it builds confidence. Intermediate has a mix of riders that are from Novice pace to Intermediate pace to people trying to get in Advanced in my org and likely is the same in your org.
There's an old saying about going slow to go fast. Doing that allows you to fix little issues that become big issues as you ramp up the speed. Do whatever makes you the most comfortable. Being comfortable allows you to have a better time and to get more out of the riding.
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I'm wondering if I should stay in Novice for now or go ahead and ask to be bumped up to Intermediate. I will say that the closure rate a few times with back markers was attention getting.
IMHO, you should move up. The closure rate between you and the Novice Group was startling so I wasn't kidding when I mentioned that you probably got bumped up. The fact that you didn't makes me wonder what the control riders were looking at if they didn't see the difference.
Rainman
From what I have seen in my trackday org you generally have to "work with" one of the control riders for them to be willing to go through the hassle of the paperwork in involved to get you a bump. Unless it's super obvious to everyone they tend to try and look away from extra work. They also tend to be wary of riders they have not seen before. When they see a new rider going fast sometimes they are expecting them to crash.
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Great video. You are moving in the right direction for sure. Don't have anything new to add that's not been covered. Great downshifting.
Speaking of shifting. I'm not sure if you were looking to go faster on the straights but if you are try letting the bike scream a bit more and use the shift lights to make your upshifts rather than using the sound of the engine. There's an amazing amount of power at the top of the rev range.
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Apextc,
Those are drills that the school does that help students like myself improve specific areas of our riding. Sometimes it's easy to forget that others might not be aware of the drill names. All of them are referenced in Keith Codes books in some way or another if not directly by their drill name.
The Two step and Three step are visual riding drills. As you enter the corner you observe the turn point and apex (two step). The three step adds in the exit to the two step. Using these techniques you can increase corner speed and improve your line. The drill depends on reference points which is #1 on the list.
Quick turn is a technique used to increase the steering rate of the bike. More pressure is used on the motorcycle's handle bars and the bike steers faster. This does two things. It increases ground clearance and reduces lean angle in the corner.
I'll add a bonus drill of wide view. Wide view is a way of looking at the track surface so that you see everything and focus your attention rather than your eyes. It helps reduce the sensation of speed and also assists in being more visually aware of your surroundings. I found it absolutely amazing for making passing a lot less stressful. Using wide view I realized I had TONS of room to get past safely.
The drills are broken down into small components but when you do something like combine techniques like the three step and the quick turn you will be amazed at how quickly you can make it through even the most technical corner.
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Some more snippets of useful data. Here's a graphic that the data logger software generated for me showing me throttle usage. It's helped me determine that I'm chopping the gas WAY early in a lot of places on the track especially the straight and have rather spotty throttle control on the left side of the track (i hate that part of the track and my SR's are showing). This was a lap at Atlanta Motorsports Park in rain mode just having some fun. This is the kind of data that's extremely useful for me.
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Some awesome work that whoever did installing it and researching it. It will make a great training tool. During some of my early CSS training my biggest question was "how fast am I really going" as it seemed REALLY fast in some places and really slow in others. I understand the reasoning for covering some of the instruments during the ride but it's nice to have some kind of correlation after the ride.
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I "think" it's the SP. I talked to a friend this evening that has them on her HP4 and she's pretty happy with the tires. It's worth a try just to see what I think.
I have ridden on a few sets of Pirelli's in the past and liked them but they weren't on a bike I owned. I'm pretty curious actually.
The Q3's seemed to change a lot when you dropped the pressure. They did however wear a lot more. Lucky for me my next track day is going to be a lot of right hand turns.
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Yeah. I think it's a super cool addition to the camera bike for sure. VERY useful information for the coaches and the riders to look at later.
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Will do for sure.
Nothing at all wrong with the Q3's btw. I love them. I'm just experimenting around. If I hate the Pirelli's it's not like I'll be stuck with them because from what I have read they don't last very long.
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Saw this on Facebook. Can you guys share any more information about the behind the scenes stuff of how the data is logged and the overlay? This is MEGA cool!!!!
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It's interesting. When I first got my S1000RR I was a bit smitten with the power that it has. Running track pressures of 31/30 and being super greedy on the throttle occasionally when no one was looking I was getting noticeable wear in the center of the rear tire. Adjusting the pressure up a few PSI eliminated this as well as not being as much of a squid helped stop the uneven wear.
Now that I'm used to the bike and not marveling at how quickly the numbers flash by on the display I don't adjust my street pressures anymore unless I'm using something really low. I'll probably adjust my pressure to 32/33 since I was running 32/26 on my last track day. I tried the factory pressures that BMW recommends and it was awful.
I love the longevity that the Q3's have but I'm considering trying the Pirelli's that the HP4 come standard with for my next set of tires just as a comparison. I'm sure the Q3's will last the rest of the track season and still have plenty of life left when I replace them in the spring.
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I ran warmers for the first time at the track yesterday. I adjusted the hot pressure on my Q3's to 32/26 based on some advice from someone I really trust and it worked quite well for me. Track temps were 42 degrees in the morning and barely climbed to 72 degrees before the sudden storm that sent us all scrambling to get our trailers packed and keep our ez up's from being blown away. I had plenty of grip all day and had very little concerns with grip.
I agree 100% with Cobie. Tires are cheap in the grand scheme of things.
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They felt a bit different with the lower pressure but they worked quite well. I'll probably try them again at that pressure in the future. It was a great opportunity to learn more about my tires. Even with a little bit of experimentation there's sooooo much more to learn.
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So I literally just got back from the track. I ran warmers on my Q3's as an experiment and here's my results.
This was my first time using tire warmers ever and I even needed help getting them on the bike. Temps started out at 42 degrees and climbed to 72 degrees later in the day. I started my pressure at 31/30 cold and then later on adjusted them to 32/26 hot based on some advice I got at the track. I was too busy riding to do any other testing such as surface temp. I had great grip all day.
The Million dollar question is of course were they effective. I'm going to go with a yes on this. Heading out onto the track I had grip right away. This was a standard track day and not a race but knowing my tires were "as warm as they could be" from the start reduced the things I had to worry about. Those first few "cold" corners I was not as concerned about grip and it made more space in my mind to concentrate on the riding. They are a bit of a pain to put on but I got used to it after a few times. They may or may not have actually given me any more additional grip but they did help free my attention away from the tires on a cold day. That helped me a lot by providing a bit of peace of mind and made my track day more enjoyable.
My advice would be to try it yourself and see how it works for you. If you can save $1 of your $10 of attention that's worth the hassle of extension cords and stands. At least for me. Your mileage may vary.
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The zen like state will evaporate pretty quickly and be replaced by stampeding butterflies in your stomach if you get even a tiny bit off line. The track gets very narrow at that speed....
That's certainly true. Unpredictable traffic will make you roll out of the throttle real quick.
What really stuck with me is how much ground you cover and how slow the steering seems to be.
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I'd be good with this really
This is pretty close. The new 2015 S1000RR gives you your maximum lean angle on it's instruments in real time. I'm hoping they have a setting to turn off the speedo display as well as that would be SUPER nice not having to tape it.
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Good ones guys, good ones!
Anything else?
Acceleration and deceleration, mapped on the track (green and red) and gear.
The datalogger has acceleration mapped on the speed map view. Which is color coded based on throttle position. Decel I have yet to see a view on.
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That's exactly what I had in mind as well. Sort of a visual reminder so you know where you are temp wise rather than just having to guess.
Even for track days this would be helpful. Q3's warm up fast but "how fast". With that accessory you have a bit more data than you would have otherwise.
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Saw that on Sportbiketrackgear's facebook feed. A VERY cool accessory.
I'm heading to the track this weekend and it's supposed to be pretty cool for a change. As an experiment I'm bringing my warmers with me. I'll see if I can do some measurements in the name of science and see if they actually do any good.
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Tyler I agree with you on this. I'm sure there have been studies but those all depend on your control group. If you were to compare the reflexes of your average F15 pilot and the average person you would find massive differences.
I'd offer up my services for experimentation, but I wasn't average...
Benny
Heh heh. You caught that.
I was going to use the generic "fighter pilot" but figured F15 would be more fun.
Are Tire Warmers Effective For Q3 Or Similar Sport Tires?
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Using tire warmers changed my views a bit. Setting a hot pressure at least to me seems a bit more accurate and easier. Then again the joy of learning is perhaps even that viewpoint might change with more information.
I think the tire temp display is a cool idea. What would be interesting is if a manufacturer integrated that into the display of the bike. The new 2015 S1000RR provides interesting data such as max lean angles. Perhaps in the future we might see that. My 2014 has an integrated lap timer option that gives you a green light as you are starting your fastest lap time. I think there's a huge market and huge future for rider information. Of course that brings in new problems as well. We already tape over our speedometers to reduce distraction. How distracting might additional data be in the grand scheme of things. It's useful but a double edged sword at the same time.