PGI

I think you nailed it. Just for the sake of non physicists, the rapid quick flick produces an upward force which decreases front tire contact patch area, and, applying throttle further decreases the front tire contact area, maybe even to zero, and upon leaning in the opposite direction, the front tire regains traction and because the front wants to self correct, the tank slapper motion begins?

At Buttonwillow RT in CA, turn 1, clockwise, April, I attempted a quick flick at 25 mph. It was session 2, first lap, and i went down. The front tire lost traction. After that crash i recalled the T2 video where the question is posed to the class, "Do you quick flick the bike when you're tires are cold?". The resounding answer: NO! The morning temperature was about 50F. Street tires. No tire warmers. I cancelled my late November track say in Chuckwalla without regret. Some like it hot.

No idea. The track looks flat to me.

It's as if the rider's mind couldn't process what just happened, and is now catching up, when finally the rider realizes speed is too low and now starts applying throttle.

Good point about senses overwhelmed, or losing sense of speed.

Good tip on charging

Found something from Lnewqban regarding charging, and I'll paraphrase it: You know you are charging your turns when you discover you scrubbed off too much speed and are now in the turn at a speed you know is too slow. You lost your sense of speed.

Any forum content discussing charging turns? This discussion may touch on the topic of charging. It's hard to find a good explanation of what charging turns means. Reading between the lines it seems charging means: a) chopping the throttle rather than rolling off b ) coasting c) hard braking then sudden release just before turning. Instead do this: a) roll off the throttle, or roll off some and maintain a speed, then complete the full roll off b ) hard braking then gradual release to adjust entry turn speed using your sense of speed Best,

As to when to quickflick, it seems do it after braking, and don't mix trail braking with the quickflick. Trail brake when adjusting entry speed in high speed turns, where realistically, I don't think it's possible to quick flick.

I see. I wouldn't dare look for the traction limit either by sliding a tire on the street-the track, maybe. Interesting about the Dunlop 208s-probably the cold temperatures had a lot to do with the sliding. In California, it's never cold. I'm running Metzlers, they stick like glue, and I'll probably stay with them until further notice.

Neuroplasticity. I love it!

Eirik, Regarding Michelins, do you use them because they provide a buffer (traction loss warning) but just not as much as Pirellis?

Bummer. I would slow down to 75% and revisit counter-steering. Press on the right bar to turn right, and left to turn left. You can't possibly quick-flick the bike any other way. The Twist II DVD illustrates the comedy of body steering and peg weighting as steering tools. Peg weighting is great to lock on to the bike and facilitate pivot steering-push with your quad muscles into the tank on one side, and press horizontally on the bar on the other side. Also, ensure your body is low enough to make your counter steering effective; it is possible that you are pressing down on the bar instead of horizontally, making your counter steering ineffective or inefficient. Paying attention to riding can be tough with new life events. A new job and a newborn will demand attention; riding fast, like any sport, is a mental game and the athlete pays a price when not focused. Best wishes.

Racing tires & premium street tires tend to have a buffer zone, where the tires slide but still the rider maintains control, whereas street tires (not premium) once they lose traction and begin to slide, lack a buffer zone, slide suddenly and quickly, and control is much more in question. How does one tell a premium street tire from that which is not a premium street tire? Riding track days and street and not racing makes me not want to install racing tires on my machine. Is trial and error the only way to test how street tires will slide, whether it be sudden and quick, or whether they will exhibit a more gradual, more controlled slide?

OK. So... if you don't have a point picked out for an apex AND haven't looked in toward the apex, you don't really have any info about where you want the bike to go - so how confident will your quickturn be? This is a good review exercise for forum members, what is the timing on 2-step? When should you spot your turn point and when should you look in to the apex? Spot your turn point as soon as possible because it controls many decisions (where to brake, when to downshift, etc.). Without reference points, there is no turn point. No bueno. The time to look at your apex is just before you reach the turn point. A rider requires a turn point to have the attention left to spend on his next reference point, the apex. If a rider is confident on his/her location (turn point/reference point), the rider is "free" to look at the apex just before flicking the machine into the turn. Like in real estate, location, location, location is of primary importance. You must have RPs to get your through the turns; you can relax on the straights.

Yes, looks clear to me now. Two steering points instead of one, for example in the case of the 180 degree turn with the decreasing radius. Use track positioning by "easing in" (i.e. turning) before making the "one" steering change.

Thanks everyone. Regarding how to use the skills mentioned to make the pass, making the pass using the double apex will require scrubbing off more speed in the slowest part of the turn, midturn, to negotiate the tighter radius as compared to the ideal line (disadvantage). There is a braking advantage using the double apex line, namely brake later and then apply more force to set the entry speed prior to the quick turn. Because my entry speed would have to be slower to negotiate the tighter turn, this could result in my getting passed during the exit since I would have to be starting the drive from a lower speed than if taking the ideal line. Also, if I'm riding a big bike compared to a smaller, more agile machine, even more speed would have to be scrubbed off to negotiate the double apex line's turning point before the drive, maybe too much to make it worthwhile. Get back on the gas as soon as the bike is pointed at the apex (it will be a little later for the double apex line, which is a disadvantage). The hook turn gets applied at the quick-turn turning point using the double-apex line, made just prior to starting the drive out of the turn, but it could also be applied to ideal line. It's best to work both lines and record the section times to see which can be done most efficiently. Then, if the passing opportunity arises, the double-apex may be the way to go, especially if passing a very slow rider. Also, if the decreasing radius turn is one in a series of turns, the drive out of the turn is moot (unable to take advantage of it), and the double-apex line is likely the better choice.

Can you give an example of point 3, p. 76 of Twist II? The point states that track positioning is useful when: " A slow turn-in, under-braking turn entry when positioning the bike quickly for the turn point could overload the front tire and cause the front wheel to lock". I understand over-braking while turning will cause a loss of traction, or over-braking can lock up the front wheel, but I'm not understanding this statement. The statement gives me visions of beginning a fast turn early and trail braking (slow turn-in) , positioning the bike for a turning point then making a quick turn in a late apex, decreasing radius turn. Not sure.