Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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1) Steel braded front brake lines. They can take hits from debris better than stock lines. It's a safety thing to ensure they always work when you need them but you will like the brake feel more as well. (About $100-150 plus installation.)
Benny
Oh, this is new to me, I thought the braided steel lines were just to reduce expansion of the brake lines to give a better and more accurate feel on the brakes. Thanks for posting that.
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I would agree that upgrades like braided steel brake lines, race slick tires, quickshifter, etc. are probably not so important at this stage for basic riding performance. (You mentioned fairings - those might make sense, since usually the idea behind those is to pack away your stock bodywork for safekeeping to protect it from racetrack abuse.)
However, getting your existing suspension set up properly is an excellent idea. At a minimum, make sure to set the sag correctly for your weight. If you are doing track days there might be a suspension expert available there to make basic adjustments for you for a low fee - typically around $40-$50; they can set the sag for you and give you a good starting point on your adjustments, and it can make a big difference in how the bike feels. Also they can usually spot any obvious problems with your current suspension (binding, etc.) and let you know if your bike is WAY too hard or soft to be practical for your size and/or the riding you are doing.
Typically a stock street bike suspension is designed around a rider approximately 160 lbs or so. If you are anywhere close to that, suspension mods may be wait until you are riding in about the middle of the intermediate group before they will make a significant difference for you, but if you are way outside that range you might want to look sooner for springs/valves that are sized more appropriately.
Keep in mind, many - OK, most - bike handling problems are created by the rider. Simply being tense in your arms or holding the bars tightly through a turn will make the bike handle poorly, no matter how good your suspension components are; ditto for poor throttle control. Riding technique should definitely be looked at before spending hundreds of dollars on suspension upgrades.
In your post, you mentioned you are telling yourself to "hold the throttle" as you approach a turn. What exactly do you mean by that?
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Different people have different priorities, but I personally completely fail to see why one would ride on a track without constantly pushing to the max, whether it is working on a specific technique or a specific corner - but without going slow anywhere else.
Question for you.
Let's say you're working on a specific set of turns. You change your line slightly and attack the set. Now you're out of the turns you were interested in and on to the next set. How do you review your line change—in order to determine if it needs to be adjusted on the next lap—while simultaneously "pushing to the max" on the rest of the track? If you're dedicating any mental capacity to thinking about the turns you wanted to work on, can you really go 100% on the track ahead of you?
Allright, since no one came up with the Twist reference to answer this, here is a teaser, from Mr. Code himself:
"How do you develop this wonderful ability to ride and observe what you’re doing at the same time? You simply decide to do it. You make an effort to look at what you are doing while you are doing it. Try it. If you already have a record of your lap times on the track, go out and make an effort to observe yourself. The first thing you’ll notice will be that you went slower while doing both the riding and observing. It costs a lot of attention to do both things at once. You won’t be willing to ride as hard."
Want to read more about it? It's in "A Twist of the Wrist" Chapter Two. It covers, in detail, exactly how to do what JK13 is asking - how to observe yourself (or observe an area needing improvement), how to analyze it, and how to decide what to do next, and how to implement the change and then evaluate it. It's good stuff, and way too much to type here.
(BTW - If you are impatient, like me, you can download the eBook instantly nowadays, no more waiting for the hard copy to show up in the mail.)
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Problem with lap times and video is that you're waiting until after the session to decide what changes would work. I'm not saying you go snail pace slow. I'm sure we are all capable of holding a decent pace without too much thought. My point is that there is definitely a good reason to not push it to the max at all times on track.
Edit: Also, I can't speak for the coaches other than saying that they are not working on improving their times. They are focusing on the student. I'd venture a guess that they might suggest their pace when instructing is not actually anywhere near their 100%, but that's just speculation.
As a coach I am definitely not riding at 100%, I have to have free attention available to observe the student, and to communicate with the student as needed (hand signals, etc.). Also, I never ride at my absolute max pace at the school, I always keep a margin for safety to react to anything unexpected and observe other riders (even if they are not my student - all coaches watch all other riders to some extent, for safety reasons, and would intervene if someone was riding in some unsafe way.)
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The question above is answered in at least one of Keith's books - who wants to be first to find it?
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Not me, and here is how I know: I used to show horses, and I competed in Open Jumping. One year the timing was right and I had the right horse so I decided to get serious about it. I set up a whole plan to make it to national competition, followed through with all the training and competitions and fitness and time investment, and I got there, and in my first (and my horse's first) A level national competition I got sixth place out of something like 120 competitors - a pretty good showing for a first-time-out low budget operation. Clearly we had the ability to really compete at that level.
But I learned something very important - I didn't like it. At that level it was no longer about riding, or horses, or the sport of it - it was about MONEY. I felt like I was the only person there riding my own horse, everyone else was a professional rider or trainer on someone else's high-dollar prospect. At local and regional shows, the horses are the riders' pride and joy, their pet and their partner; but at that national show the typical rider just got off the horse and handed it to a groom and walked away to go ride the next one; it was all business, very serious, and suddenly I wondered why I had worked so hard to get there; it was really not a very nice place to be.
Being a world-champ motorcycle rider would mean having to bend to many other people's motivations; it might mean compromising your own goals for others, and possibly representing things that mean nothing to you; it could mean having to ride under great pressure on a bike you don't even like. I would enjoy all the hard work and preparation and competition required to GET there, but I don't think I'd like the responsibilities and pressures and obligations to be faced once that world-class competition level is achieved.
I like riding for it's own sake, competing on my own terms, pushing my own limits; I wouldn't want to have to do it for the money, or to satisfy OTHER people's ambitions.
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Back to the question about whether faster laptimes could be achieved with trail braking - here's the thing, a skilled rider that knows both techniques will USE both techniques, where they are appropriate! In some corners trail braking makes sense and can be the quickest way through the corner - a typical example would be a decreasing radius turn that occurs after a straight. In that case you'd want to carry your straightaway speed as long as possible so you'd brake well into the turn to get slowed down (as late as possible) for your late turn point (or your second turn point if it is a double apex turn).
If I could only use ONE of the techniques, I know I can turn faster laptimes quick-flicking without trailbraking than I can using trailbraking everywhere; when I trailbrake I can get INTO the turn faster but not OUT of it faster, so trailbraking only improves my times through turns that have a very high entry speed and a very low exit speed.
Possibly the reason you see a lot of trailbraking in the TT is there are a number of long stretches of high speed road followed by tight corners, and those may be the places the cameras favor since they are so dramatic to watch.
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I let off at about 30-40% of the turn ( apex is 50 % ) so near or at the apex i am off the brakes and on the gas.I trail the rear brake a little longer than the front.I let off trailing the front brakes before dialing in any serious lean.
I have not ridden for a bit, so i am foggy on the details.
The ideal scenario would be to brake such that you are tapering off the pressure and releasing the brake at the exact moment you turn the bike, so that you have maximum traction available at the front tire for turning instead of usurping some of that traction with brakes. By releasing the brake at the moment of turn-in, you also keep the front suspension compressed (if you let off the brakes, coast, then turn, the suspension compresses, releases and compresses again.)
Dragging the brake through the start of the turn often forces the rider to have a slower turn rate, because the extra load in the front tire from the brakes means less traction available for turning, so the rider is fooled into thinking he can't go into the turn any faster than he already is.
It takes some guts to do the no-brakes drill, but it can be very enlightening to discover that with a good quickturn you can carry a lot more speed into (and through!) the turn; doing no-brakes drill gives you laser sharp focus on entry speed!
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I believe what Hotfoot meant by " full lean angle " was not achieve your maximum possible lean angle, but your set lean angle for a given corner, be it 15 or 45 degrees
Yes, that is what I meant, thanks.
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I let off at about 30-40% of the turn ( apex is 50 % ) so near or at the apex i am off the brakes and on the gas.I trail the rear brake a little longer than the front.I let off trailing the front brakes before dialing in any serious lean.
I have not ridden for a bit, so i am foggy on the details.
At what point in the turn, in your example above, do you achieve your full lean angle?
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I don't think so, trailing the brakes a bit helps get the bike turned.
Assuming a typical 90 degree corner (no decreasing radius or banking or other factors) - to get the most effective turning of the bike, what is the exact moment you should be releasing the brakes?
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FieryRobot, how are you choosing your turn points, when you are riding on roads? In the turns where you end up needing a steering correction, are you committing to a line before you see the actual shape of the turn?
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I think 100% is subjective, AND changes all the time. My definition of "riding at 100%" is going absolutely as fast as I think I can safely go while chasing someone down in a race. However, every time I overcome a barrier or make a change that improves a corner, the actual laptime for my 100% effort level changes. Just like at the school, we tell riders to go at about 75-80% but they typically get much faster each session as they overcome barriers and improve technique - because that frees up more attention and their 80% riding level changes!
The laptime (an actual objective measurement of speed) for my 100% effort may change from day to day depending on track conditions, temperature, my physical condition, bike setup, tires, etc.
I think a good definition of riding at 100% is having ALL of your attention focused on getting the maximum traction and drive and overall speed from your bike (based on the information flowing to you through your senses), with no free attention left over for "thinking".
Of course, triggering SRs by "riding over your head" can absorb so much attention that you can be riding at what feels like 100% but still be going a lot slower than your best laptime - that is exactly what happens to me when I try the 'trail-braking to the apex' riding technique!
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Thanks. This was my idle thinking about doing something more fun in a few years. But I can't ever imagine myself racing. Of course, I couldn't imagine my going onto a track either, and we know how that worked out :-P
Yup. That's how it starts...
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See this thread for a detailed description with a LOT of info:
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=3660
To answer your specific questions, yes you can be regional, and it can be full or part time. Racing experience is a requirement, however, not all coaches started out as racers, some tried out for coaching first and THEN went racing specifically to meet the racing requirement to be a coach.
There's definitely a lot more to it than just riding skill, you need good communication skills, a willingness to go through a VERY rigorous and specific training program, the ability to work with a lot of different types of people, and you have to be OK with riding in all sorts of conditions. It's a job that is harder than it looks but a lot more rewarding than I imagined.
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Wow, this is an interesting question. Personally, for me, I most enjoy knowing that that I was part of something that really made a difference for a student. When a student says (and this happens more often than you think) "This was the best day of my life!", I am thrilled to have been a part of that. I have gotten some notes from students saying "you saved my life" because they used something they learned at the school to avoid a nasty accident; what could be more incredible than hearing THAT from someone?
Some students are very memorable because they made amazing progress, some because they had SUCH a great time, and some because the school made a difference in their lives - in a way that goes beyond just their riding.
Some of the best days I've ever had coaching were when a student started out very slow and maybe nervous or afraid, but listened carefully in class and applied the material, and made HUGE progress and ended up going faster and having more fun than they ever imagined was possible. Sometimes at the end of the day they try to tell me how they feel and their eyes well up with emotion (yes, even grown men) because what they have accomplished that day is so meaningful to them, and THAT is one of the biggest rewards I could ever get.
Making a fast racer into the very FASTEST racer would be cool, but the thing that really lights me up is seeing students overcome barriers, and the leaping, joyous sense of accomplishment that brings, to them and to me.
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I keep the electronics on, on the BMW, when I'm coaching, and I never notice the electronics stepping in - but I like having them there, in case I have a brain fart and make a stupid move - like slamming the throttle on too hard while leaned over. It hasn't happened yet, but it COULD, and I'd rather have the electronics save me than crash. I HAVE had the ABS kick in, once, when a rider suddenly turned across the track and right into my path. I grabbed a big handful of front brake and managed to miss him - WOW those things have a lot of stopping power! It felt perfectly in control under enormous braking load, not sure it would have gone so well without the ABS.
For racing I'm happier with the ABS turned off, because if you are at threshold braking and the ABS kicks in, it backs off the brake and it's not a particularly nice feeling to suddenly have less braking power than you expected!
Basically, if I am riding at the absolute max and want to get everything I can out of the bike I'd rather be in control completely (no electronics) or at least have them at minimum settings, but for everyday riding, especially if I am on an unfamiliar road or track and/or don't have 100% of my attention focused on my own riding (i.e. watching traffic, or another rider, or admiring the scenery), I like having the electronics there as a safety net.
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This is a great post.
Welcome, we look forward to your continuing participation!
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OK, great discussion - a couple of interesting points have come up here!
In regards to keeping some tension on the chain to facilitate a smooth roll on, that does make sense, as some bikes do tend to jerk a bit when transitioning from off-the-gas to the roll-on. FieryRobot brought up some good potential solutions for that, turning up the idle a bit and checking throttle slack, also on a bike with a Power Commander you can play with the settings to smooth that out some.
Another thing we see commonly at the school (especially in the very first session) is riders approaching a turn, coasting with the throttle off, and getting into a low-speed turn at a speed so slow that the bike feels like it will fall over when they turn it. These riders often roll on the throttle before turning the bike, to make it feel more stable as they turn. I'm sure this habit develops on the street, where the rider uses that early (before and during steering the bike) throttle to stabilize the bike through low speed turns, which helps them compensate for steering errors generated by stiff arms, or lack of understanding of counter steering, and too-low entry speed (the bike feels tippy).
Unfortunately this can become a habit, and it creates a false barrier to entry speed - the rider's entry speed is already too low, but since the bike is harder to turn with the throttle on, it doesn't feel like he can enter the turn any faster. Usually the quick turn technique handles this problem, by giving the rider a tool to handle a higher entry speed with confidence, so the rider is able to roll off, turn the bike, and then roll on AFTER steering is completed.
Stroker asked if countersteering the bike with the gas on can cause headshake - the answer is yes, it certainly can. However that typically happens when you are on the gas hard enough that the front end gets light. Any pressure on the bars under heavy acceleration can cause headshake. If the throttle is on mildly (the bike still slowing down) there is enough weight on the front that you wouldn't normally experience headshake. So, a rider that enters a turn, slowing down, with some throttle on, probably wouldn't get headshake, but a rider that is driving out of a turn that tries to steer the bike (into a transition, for example) while hard on the gas could definitely get headshake.
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Well done on figuring this out.
Now, you brought up an interesting topic, which I think is worth more exploration! Many street riders keep the throttle steady while turning the bike, instead of rolling off as they initiate the turn. I did, it, too, and I remember why - but let's hear it from someone else - what makes a rider want to keep the throttle flat while steering the bike, isntead of rolling off, and what false barrier can that create for a rider?
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I was under the impression you had a set of Vanson's leathers.Oh well.
CSmith, did you say your buddies used Spartan leathers? A set of Spartan custom with armor and everything is 1500$ or so i guess.A* custom is i think 2 grand, Dainese some more, and RS Taichi way more than that.
Difficult to choose....not to mention there are other makers as well.Sigh.
Some other things to take into consideration :
1) Can you get measured in person or do you have to measure yourself and mail those in? Measurements by the maker or a trained rep usually work out better than doing it yourself, and they are more likely to stand behind the measurements instead of blaming you for measuring wrong if it isn't correct. Plus it is easier to have them do it for you.
2) Where are they made? If they are constructed overseas it can really increase the leadtime not to mention to repair time if they don't fit right the first time. Also if you ever crash a need a repair it is much more easily accomplished if the maker is local.
3) What materials do they use? You can get different types of leather (like kangaroo!) that are lighter, or softer, or more durable, take a look at your priorities and what is available. Personally I really want a suit that is comfortable from day 1, I don't like the suit to be stiff or scratchy, it distracts me when riding. I'd love to try kangaroo leather sometime since it is so light but so far it has been too expensive.
4) If they don't make the suit onsite, do they use only ONE manufacturer or do they change around? Sometimes the quality of a single brand name can vary widely, if they use various manufacturers.
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Great! It is ideal when you can think it through and really understand it.
How does the bike feel different to you when you turn it with the throttle steady versus when you roll off to turn it? What is your purpose in keeping the throttle flat through a turn instead of rolling it off, what makes you want to do that?
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My mindset for my very first race was this. "I am going to run at my best track day pace". Since a track day is a learning and educational experience we ride at 75%-80% of our abilities. While racing, the goal is 100% right? Well, as with any new experience, maybe your first couple of races is not the time to find your 100%.
I totally agree with this - because in my opinion there are enough new things to contend with in a first race that you NEED that extra 25% or so of your attention available! Riders passing very close, start procedures, rules, where you are in the pack, and lots of other things are on your mind in a first race and if you try to ride at your max, you can end up making unexpected errors that cost you a lot of time.
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I do totally get that we shouldn't add lean and throttle at the same time.
I guess my question for #1 is this—can I enter a turn (let's not call it a corner here) with constant throttle, lean the bike, and then add throttle through the turn. I'm just trying to apply this to more relaxed street riding. So assume I'm traveling at a speed where I can enter the corner without slowing down. Can I just leave it where it is, lean the bike, and then roll on? I think from your answer to #2 the answer would be yes.
I think the confusion comes over the fact that we are told to get off the gas before a turn. But I think that's in the cases where you really need to slow down to a sane entry speed for a turn.
Bottom line: we don't need to roll off just to make a turn if your entry speed is OK, right? Just don't roll on until the bike is pointed in the right direction?
I think you are asking me to agree with something you already know for yourself, from doing it on the street.
Can you do it? Yes of course you can and no doubt you have done it successfully. Would it be possible or ideal on the racetrack or at maximum speed? Probably not, but that is not the question you asked. Just for the sake of thinking it through, if you were to approach the corner at a HIGHER entry speed (let's say a 90 degree right hand turn coming off an off-ramp of the freeway), and you chose to hold the the throttle steady at your turn point instead of rolling off, how could that affect your quick-turn? What about your line?
How Do You Know What Your 100% *really* Is?
in Cornering and Techniques
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I was thinking of Soft Science when I put the challenge out there, and I got a kick out of your post.
But, since I think more people have Twist already on their bookshelf I decided to post that one.
Soft Science really talks about making a plan, which speaks to Eirik's post above - taking time to think it through, OFF the track, can result in immediate gains ON the track.
Somewhere there is a great quote from Keith about being able to separate a session where you are making observations and trying out new things versus a "go for it" session where you are focused completely on going fast; I think that is in one of his articles, I'll see if I can find it.