Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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Woohoo, you are stylin'!
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It's a done deal. Signed the paperwork during my lunch break and should be picking the bike up tomorrow after they PDI the bike and put the tires on it. The dealer put Q3's on it for next to free. Probably the MOST easy vehicle purchase ever.
The dealer that I'm working with is very familiar with track oriented motorcycles and is regularly visited by Nate Kern one of the BMW test riders. Nate was actually in the showroom while I was filling out my paperwork.
http://www.bmwma.com/we-prepare-Nate-race-bike-for-the-track--race_bike
I'm going to get my 600 miles in as quickly as I can and go ahead and start picking out accessories such as frame sliders and other stuff and get them on order so when the service comes around I can get everything taken care of in one shot.
GOOD, I'm glad you got those Q3s on, so you know what you've got under you; I don't know much about those stock tires you mentioned but I know the Q3s will be GREAT. Glad to hear your dealership is knowledgeable on race bikes, that is a really nice bonus and will come in handy when it is time to fully track-prep the bike with fairings and safety wire and all the stuff you need to pass tech for other track day/race organizations. CONGRATULATIONS, I look forward to seeing your new ride!
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Just an update here. I called the school's office about the discount and it was a limited time thing that had expired. My guy at the dealership is getting in contact with BMW directly to see if there's anything else out there discount wise for school students. I'll post any information I get in my purchase process to the forum.
I'm still waiting to hear back from the dealership but if things go well I may be taking delivery this week.
Oh, another thing to do would be to have the dealership help you set the sag on the bike - you'll want your leathers and helmet with you to get the right weight on the bike for the setup.
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A lot of the "advice" that you might be getting might just come down to an element of riding people hyper focus on.
This is an excellent comment, very insightful and absolutely true.
There has been a lot of discussion about trail braking on this forum, a quick search will turn up a lot of threads, and the article posted above is a great place to start.
MacyoK9s, you might want to ask the person who told you "you can't be competitive without trail braking" to define what exactly they MEAN by the term trail braking. I have heard some people describe trail braking as simply trailing off the brakes gradually instead of snapping them off like a light switch, and I have heard others define it to mean hanging onto the brake WAYYY into the corner, to the apex or beyond. A good starting point in figuring this out would be to ask them what they mean and where they suggest applying the technique.
Remember that your front tire has a certain amount of available traction. You can use some of it for braking and some of it for cornering forces; meaning, the more you are on the brakes, the less available traction you have for cornering speed, so being heavy on the brakes at your turn-in point will negatively affect your ability to quick-turn the bike. There are some situations where this might make sense to do, like corners where speed coming INTO the corner is more important then EXIT speed: example, a wide-entry, decreasing radius turn after a high-speed straight. In that case, you may want to carry your straightaway speed as long as you can, and trail the brakes into the corner using a slow turn-rate so you can brake deeper into the corner.
Another example would be racing situations where you want to block another rider from passing you at turn entry, by braking late, using a low-line entry and trailing the brakes into the corner - but when you do that you sacrifice mid-corner and exit speed and a sharp competitor with a good quick turn can smoke you on the exit, so it is a trade-off!
I'd be interested to have you watch both good and bad riders using trail braking and see what you observe - here are some things to look for:
Watch their entry speed and exit speed compared to other riders (or yourself); do they enter faster but exit slower? How does mid-corner speed compare?
Compare their line - do they low-line every corner, or use the whole track and try to straighten out the turn? Are they consistent on turn exits or do they tend to run wide sometimes or have to steer it again?
Do they try to apply trail-braking in EVERY corner, or just in certain places, and if so, can you tell HOW they chose where to use it?
Is the rider relaxed on the bars through the trail-braking corners, or looking tense?
If you get a chance to do that, post up what you observe!
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Just so y'all know, Robert - the original poster in this thread - is not new to the school, he is a Level 4 student. He does know the pace and routine of the school and will be riding at a fair pace!
I agree that you could finish the break-in at the school - keeping it under 9k is probably not a real hardship at Barber, you'd just have to be mindful of it on the main straightaway.
Getting some frame sliders on would be a priority for me if I was taking a brand new bike tothe track, they should be relatively easy to add and they are nice to have, just in case.
Call the office about the BMW discount, they have the most info on the discount, the coaches don't get much detail on that.
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Good questions. BMW did not show up much in the highlights video, however they were very much present at the event. There was a BMW trailer (in addition to the CSS trailer) and BMW had a contingent of local large BMW dealers (I think there were six of them) supporting the event. They rented out the whole track Monday, the day after the races, for a BMW owners track day, had a dinner on Sunday night for us, and had the factory BMW test rider and their world Superbike engineer from Munich, both of whom spoke at the dinner and offered support for BMW riders during the whole three days. They also brought out some HP4s loaded with race mods for us to ogle. Also the Superbike School as there all three days with the CSS trailer and set up a couple of S1000rr bikes (including a cool body position trainer bike that acutally MOVES to help train riders find a position that is secure during transitions!) and had coaches there to help riders with body position and other riding questions.
My husband and I own an S1000rr together. We bought it to share but it has become his primary racebike (he also has a Ducati) and I rarely get to ride it because any race I could ride in conflicts with one he is in, plus he has set up suspension and tires and rearsets and everything else to suit him so it has become a bit hard for me to ride - so nowadays I just get my S1000RR fix at school when I'm coaching. Anyway he is racing the heck out of the S1000rr, running a full series and racing in FOUR classes. He received amazing support from the BMW folks as did some other privateer racers, including the opportunity to run data loggers and review the data immediately with the world Superbike engineer. In their Sunday night presentation BMW made it clear that they are focusing the vast majority of the rider support budget into privateer and local rider support - trackdays, club racing, privateer support. It was an impressive presentation and they have some neat ideas.I hope that helps answer some of your questions! Regarding what I ride on the street - well, we don't ride on the street anymore, except occasionally on rural dirt roads on our dual sport bikes, and none of my 'road' bikes are street legal anymore. Once we discovered track riding we quit riding on the street.
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I'll be there, look forward to meeting you.
Safe travels! -
Here is a link to a neat little video of the Superbike Shootout event at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana last weekend. It is a great representation of what it was really like at the event! It was terrific having the pro teams there, the whole weekend was a blast.
The Superbike School was there, as you can see in the video, and if you look to the right and across the lane from the CSS trailer, you can see my race pit.
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Hi.. I am Kimi, from Malaysia.. I am a street rider (occasionally join trackday) with less than 10 years of riding experience. I used to ride a ZXR250, CBR600 and currently own a BMW HP4. I had very little experience on the track.
I am always trying to improve my riding skills. Last 2 weeks, I went for a riding clinic with Cameron Donald in Sepang (Half of the participants were local racer competing in our local race). i was really impressed by Cam and some of the experienced rider. They were fast & smooth on their bike.. After the class, i realized how little i know about track riding. Now, I am ready to take a step back to improve my riding skills.
I've registered myself for CSS level 1 to 3 for this upcoming June 2014 session at Willow Spring.. I will be arriving LA from Kuala Lumpur on 6th June. Any advice on the accommodation? (FYI, I saw an old post here saying to stay at 'Inn of Lancaster', but i found out the place is permanently closed?.. I've drop an email to Devonshire motel last week, but has not receive any reply).. other near by alternatives?
cheers,
kimi
Inn of Lancaster is a good place to stay but they are now called "America's Best Value Inn". 44131 N. Sierra Hwy, Lancaster, CA93534. (661) 945-8771
I recommend you steer clear of Devonshire Inn, it's not very nice and the parking lot there is not a secure place for your vehicle.
There is also a Holiday Inn Express near Ave K in Lancaster that would be a good choice.
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Second the ninja 250 idea.
3rd the 250 idea
Awesomely cheap learning platform, teaches a rider that carrying speed is more important than roll on power. Once you get the hang of it, a 250 riders lap times can be faster than I/B group liter bike riders lap times. However... imho, it is not the safest of track riding platforms and requires some upgrades to "feel good" or "feel planted".
It kinda goes like this;
The brakes suck (steel lines needed)
The front suspension is way too soft (new springs and emulators needed)
The rear shock is only preload adjustable, so bumpy tracks are an issue (gsxr shock swap)
The frame is flexy.. ie it will flex under really hard cornering loads
The stock bars make it feel like riding a tricycle (clipons needed)
Overall, it takes a rider that can deal with the issues of a 250 at pace, but for those who can ride one fast... a gift is waiting when you throw a leg over a stronger cornering machine.
Do the newer models still need those mods? I was thinking that the recent models had a stiffer frame, better brakes and suspension.
Also, any feedback on the Honda 250? It sure looks like fun - I don't think it is quite as fast as the Ninja but I have seen at least one rider going around really well on one of those.
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It went GREAT! The whole weekend was terrific, and I met all my personal goals for riding and racing. I ran two races, and got a first and a second, and that put me in first place in the championship points for two different classes. Plus, I got to spend some time Friday testing the SuperSingle and made some nice improvements on the handling.
Having the pro teams there made it really exciting, there were tons of fans and our pit was busy all day long with visitors, it made for a really fun weekend.
CSS student Nic Swensgard was racing, too, and did a great job, he got a WIN and a third in his races. I got to spent a fair amount of time with him - what a pleasure he is to be around, he is very polite, confident and well-spoken and of course he rode really well, I look forward to watching his race career unfold.
This was a very nice event for WERA, and I just saw this article about Evelyne, the owner - I think it is worth sharing!
http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/article/women-who-roll-2014-evelyne-clarke-wera
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It seems like it would, just because it would allow you to focus your attention on speed, traction and controlling the bike much more than on trail where terrain and obstacles and other factors would take away some of your attention.
I'm sure each of them would have benefits - trail riding taught me a lot about not focusing too much on the surface (e.g., not staring down at rock I didn't want to hit) and about allowing the bike to move around underneath me without getting tense and using the back brake, etc.
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No brakes is a drill at the school so we do it a lot! It's an amazing tool for setting your focus on entry speeds. I do a no brakes drill at every new track I ride. I haven't noted the laptime difference but I'm sure it would be less than you might think. At a track with a reasonably good flow you could run a great laptime no-brakes but at a track like Fontana that has some crazy hard braking zones it would have more impact on laptimes.
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Typically you hang off to reduce lean angle. That could be to help with ground clearance, or because traction isn't very good, or because you want to go faster around a corner without having to lean over any farther, as examples.This is what i was looking for.I have seen people hang off for the simplest of corners....something that attracts unwanted attention from the police and public.How do you decide when you need to hang off, and when you don't? It appears each corner needs hanging off, but which ones really do?
Having said that, it can be good practice to find a consistent hang off position and use it all the time, so you know exactly where you are.
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I'd say for me it's about a 2 second difference on a track where I run about a 1:40. Obviously everyone is different and it depends on type of bike, conditions etc. but that is my estimate based on my own experience. It is true that I would not push as hard withot hanging off due to a worry about crashing at the more pronounced lean angles. On a tighter more technical track like Streets of Willow it makes a bigger % difference in my times than at, say, Fontana where there are long high speed straights.
As a coach I often ride around at a good pace without hanging off at all; if I don't NEED to hang off, I don't - it is too fatiguing to do it if you don't need it.
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Prior to riding the S1000rr, I would have advised getting a 600 not a 1000. But, the S1000rr is so pleasant to ride, easy to manage, and maneuverable, that now I'd pick the S1000 over a 600 every time, if finances permitted. It's a really amazing bike and the riding modes make it easy to manage and those modes CAN be used as a learning tool.
Havind said all that, if you really want to focus on cornering speed, a lightweight low HP bike forces you into it like nothing else. A Ninja 250, for example, can be a great learning tool and inexpensive to ride.
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No dirt bikes sold here i am afraid.Hence the question....
How about a small dual-sport or lightweight scooter?
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^^^ yea
I wasn't advocating that anyone do that, it was meant more for the funnies.
I bought a used $100 200cc off brand dirt bike just to beat to death. It has taught me plenty that I used on the track for reasons Hotfoot has already mentioned above. The shotty suspension has me really relaxed on the street bike. I try not to crash my yami dirt bike too hard, parts are expensive when you need them often and broken bones hurt, even in dirt.
Yes, I knew that was meant mostly for entertainment.
I had not yet seen your post, it popped up while I was typing my reply to Stroker.Is that actually you in the photo?
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You can do anything you set your mind to, but the gradient is rather steep - since a street bike is heavier, taller, has smooth tires and a different style of chassis and a less forgiving suspension over big bumps, it's likely to be much more difficult to figure out how to slide it around without crashing, and crashing a street bike is typically a lot more expensive (and could potentially cause more injury because of the weight) than crashing a dirt bike - those things are tough as nails and are designed to fall over without destroying expensive parts.
Think of it this way - a highside in the dirt on a streetbike could easily result in $1,000 worth of damage just on the fairings and paint. You can go out and buy something like a used Yamaha 125 for about that price and drop the thing over and over with no significant damage, then resell it for the same amount of money.
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I am not now, and never was, a serious dirt bike rider, but I have done some riding on them and have taken some classes on them.
Riding them helped me to get more comfortable with:
1) the bike moving around under me
2) sliding the rear tire
3) braking all the way to tire lockup, with either brake
4) dealing with low traction conditions - like riding through deep soft dirt or gravel, and using the front brake on unusual surfaces like grass. Occasionally for one reason or another I end up having to ride a sportbike on our through dirt, grass or gravel (construction zones, dirt roads, whatever) and some dirt bike experience makes me MUCH more comfortable with that.
5) dealing with elevation changes, starting and stopping on hills, riding sideways to a hill, turning around on a slope (well - actually I still hate that one on a street bike)
Starting out as a cautious and very inexperienced street rider, I rode my street bike very carefully and tensed up with any wobbling and any percieved possibiltiy of sliding a tire. Playing around on a smaller and lighter dirtbike allowed me to experiment with sliding, hard braking, etc, without fearing for my life, or worrying about other cars or cops. And riding a dirt bike over any kind of medium-to-rough terrain definitely forces you to confront the feeling of the bike moving around all over the place, often unexpectedly, and you quickly learn that it can move around a LOT without the world coming to an end. Getting comfortable with that helped me stop being so tense and reactive on my street bike.
Riding a dirt bike helps with street riding in a way similar to how driving a go-kart relates to driving a car - it allows you to get experience with things you would probably never try in your regular car on the street (like spinning it around or fully locking up the brakes entering a corner) and the skills you learn can come in VERY handy in emergency situations - like automatically knowing what to do if your car unexpectedly starts to slide.
Regarding pro-riders - I'm sure it helps them with riding a racebike at its absolute limits, and dealing with the ways the bike reacts to that (sliding, wobbling,etc.), but I imagine it is also a big help for physical conditioning because dirt riding is a serious workout!!
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Gee, thanks Eirik. If I am ever way out in the wilderness (way, way, WAY out in the wilderness) dealing with blisters I MIGHT possibly consider this remedy.
No wonder there are so few women in racing....
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I'll be there - and the Superbike School will have a trailer there, too. Should be a fun weekend, all you local folks come on out!
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I suppose a heavy man would fare better because the rear end would not come up as much and the bike will not wheelie as much?
That will depend on body position - a heavier rider sitting back or upright would make the bike MORE inclined to wheelie than a smaller rider. Body position and ability to move around on the bike is a big part of the heavier rider vs lighter rider discussion - a heavier rider that can shift around and control the combined CG of bike and rider can use that body mass to advantage, whereas it is difficult for a flyweight rider to make much impact on CG unless they hang off really, really far - which is tough if you are of small stature overall (short arms and legs).
However, if you are talking about lightweight, low horsepower bikes, weight makes a very significant difference because the ratio of rider weight to bike weight/power.
it probably comes down to finding the bike that best suits the riders' size and shape; for example, I am able to compete more effectively on the small, low horsepower bikes because I fit on them better and my small size and light weight is to my advantage. On the S1000rr, however, it is difficult for me to lock on properly and hang off enough to influence lean angle, and my lower weight is not of much significance on such a hugely powerful machine.
On the strength point, I also agree that enduring the massive acceleration, braking, and cornering forces of a high HP bike at top speed for 45 minutes is a probably a larger factor than strength required to turn the bike. You can play with the setup of a bike to make it easier or harder to turn, and I really don't think the blisters, etc. are from turning force alone; most racers I know get more blistering on the right hand, indicating that the rolling on and off of the throttle is probably a bigger factor, and the blisters generally occur more at the top edge of the palm/base of the fingers from the friction of the glove rolling back and forth, and/or the way the skin folds there. I think if the pressure was from turning the bike the blisters would be more at the middle or base of the palm.
Personally I used to get the worst blisters when riding my little YSR50 - because it was so low-power I was always wrenching the throttle all the way on and holding it WFO with way more pressure than was needed, trying to somehow make it go faster.
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I like to stay within a 4 hour radius; I am near Los Angeles so that gives me a lot of choices, but mostly I ride at Willow Springs, Auto Club Speedway (Fontana), and Las Vegas Motor Speedway, with occasional trips to ButtonWillow or Chuckwalla. I also have a couple of bikes that can go on go-kart tracks, so Adams Motorsports Park and Grange are good for that. I might tackle Miller this year, with WERA; I have ridden there with the school but it will be my first time hauling my own stuff out there.
Battery Recommendation
in School Questions/General Discussion
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I think that was the Shorai, Will speaks highly of them. My husband just put one on his dual-sport bike, and they (Shorai) claim you can let a bike sit quite a while without it being on a charger, that it will hold charge for months. I betcha we will be testing that theory out! It is definitely amazingly light.