dbtriple Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 G'day all, Just considering the 3 step cornering process of level 2. On track it seems to be much easier to be able to pin the vanishing point (step 3) and when I went to track days after level 2, the difference in corner speed that was available when actually looking properly at the vanishing point of the corner was noticeable. In fact it was quite shocking to realise how much faster I could have been going with the head in the right position looking at the right spot! I've still some work to do to achieve better results BUT..... On the road, it all seems a lot harder, mainly due to the fact that roads have trees/hills/barriers or whatever in the way of where the vanishing point should be wrt the shape of the curve. I suppose what I'm asking is what should you be looking for on the road, the vanishing point which is caused by terrain barriers or whatever, or "pretend" that you can see "through" the bend (doesn't sound right to me) in order to maintain better balance. Pre CSS other riders had mentioned "looking through the bend" but it didn't really do it for me. I hope the question makes sense....... db Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 G'day all,Just considering the 3 step cornering process of level 2. On track it seems to be much easier to be able to pin the vanishing point (step 3) and when I went to track days after level 2, the difference in corner speed that was available when actually looking properly at the vanishing point of the corner was noticeable. In fact it was quite shocking to realise how much faster I could have been going with the head in the right position looking at the right spot! I've still some work to do to achieve better results BUT..... On the road, it all seems a lot harder, mainly due to the fact that roads have trees/hills/barriers or whatever in the way of where the vanishing point should be wrt the shape of the curve. I suppose what I'm asking is what should you be looking for on the road, the vanishing point which is caused by terrain barriers or whatever, or "pretend" that you can see "through" the bend (doesn't sound right to me) in order to maintain better balance. Pre CSS other riders had mentioned "looking through the bend" but it didn't really do it for me. I hope the question makes sense....... db Hi Dbtriple, Thanks for your post, poses a very interesting question for sure, but I think perhaps you're over complicating this unneccesarily? My question to you is this, does the road have a vanishing point the same as the track? Perhaps its not as far as it is on a track, but is there one all the same? What can you also do to maximise the ability to see as much of this as possible? Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acebobby Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 G'day all,Just considering the 3 step cornering process of level 2. On track it seems to be much easier to be able to pin the vanishing point (step 3) and when I went to track days after level 2, the difference in corner speed that was available when actually looking properly at the vanishing point of the corner was noticeable. In fact it was quite shocking to realise how much faster I could have been going with the head in the right position looking at the right spot! I've still some work to do to achieve better results BUT..... On the road, it all seems a lot harder, mainly due to the fact that roads have trees/hills/barriers or whatever in the way of where the vanishing point should be wrt the shape of the curve. I suppose what I'm asking is what should you be looking for on the road, the vanishing point which is caused by terrain barriers or whatever, or "pretend" that you can see "through" the bend (doesn't sound right to me) in order to maintain better balance. Pre CSS other riders had mentioned "looking through the bend" but it didn't really do it for me. I hope the question makes sense....... db Hi dbtriple, Thats a good question and should make an interesting discussion! statistically speaking most accidents on the road happen quite close to home or in other words a road familiar to the rider! everyone does it, their favourite stretch of road, they know the layout of the turns precisely, they go into blind turns that they know alot faster than if it was a road they never knew, doing this most of the time works out fine! sometimes things can happen in these situations that can ruin your day, e.g. what if your carrying a fair amount of lean angle into one of your favourite road corners and then you see a pile of gravel right on your line, or maybe some roadkill lying on your line, or a common one where I come from a tourist stopped mid corner admiring the views! What do your SRs cause you to do in these situations? To avoid any issues on the road you really have to ride within your vision, you can however increase the amount of vision you have by experimenting with your road position, i.e enter a turn a little bit wider and later than you normally would will increase what you can see before you commit to your desired lean angle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmj120 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I can't say anything regarding this technique (haven't done leverl 2), but on the road, I sometimes use the electrical poles/trees, if possible, which helps to find some sort of reference point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 G'day all,Just considering the 3 step cornering process of level 2. On track it seems to be much easier to be able to pin the vanishing point (step 3) and when I went to track days after level 2, the difference in corner speed that was available when actually looking properly at the vanishing point of the corner was noticeable. In fact it was quite shocking to realise how much faster I could have been going with the head in the right position looking at the right spot! I've still some work to do to achieve better results BUT..... On the road, it all seems a lot harder, mainly due to the fact that roads have trees/hills/barriers or whatever in the way of where the vanishing point should be wrt the shape of the curve. I suppose what I'm asking is what should you be looking for on the road, the vanishing point which is caused by terrain barriers or whatever, or "pretend" that you can see "through" the bend (doesn't sound right to me) in order to maintain better balance. Pre CSS other riders had mentioned "looking through the bend" but it didn't really do it for me. I hope the question makes sense....... db Disclaimer: I'm not a coach. But this is a neat question, hope you don't mind if I chime in. When I ride on the road, I use this technique all the time. Mostly I use it to tell me if a blind curve ahead is getting tighter (decreasing radius) or opening up (increasing radius). I remember Keith saying in class that if the vanishing point appears to be getting closer, the curve is tightening up, and if it seems to move away from you, then the curve is opening up. That was a revelation for me - I had sort of been doing it unconsciously but when I started thinking of it THAT way, my confidence went way up, and now I can control my speed better because I have a better sense of what the road will do up ahead. Just look ahead to the farthest point on the road you can see - it could be a short distance, on a tight curve on a mountain road, but that point, where the road disappears behind a cliff, will appear to be coming toward you or going away from you, and that will tell you if the curve is becoming tighter or straightening out. If it's coming toward you really fast, slow down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Thats a great post there HotFoot, you could almost have delivered that seminar Keith style! Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtriple Posted July 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Thanks for the responses everyone. The comments given have led me to the following conclusions 1 - the track is the track, with better visibility and the opportunity to have a much clearer field of vision, regardless of the radius of the turn. 2 - the road is a different kettle of fish, even if you know what the curve is like from experience is doesn't mean that there won't be some random hazard on it, eg dog, gravel pothole etc. So ride according to the vision available due to the environment. 3 - And utilise the drills that we learnt in level 2 ie REALLY looking ahead/around and position yourself to get the maximum line vision through a corner, also not forgetting the importance of peripheral vision in identifying hazards. cheers again, and point out any other techniques I may have forgotten to notice! db Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Thanks for the responses everyone. The comments given have led me to the following conclusions 1 - the track is the track, with better visibility and the opportunity to have a much clearer field of vision, regardless of the radius of the turn. 2 - the road is a different kettle of fish, even if you know what the curve is like from experience is doesn't mean that there won't be some random hazard on it, eg dog, gravel pothole etc. So ride according to the vision available due to the environment. 3 - And utilise the drills that we learnt in level 2 ie REALLY looking ahead/around and position yourself to get the maximum line vision through a corner, also not forgetting the importance of peripheral vision in identifying hazards. cheers again, and point out any other techniques I may have forgotten to notice! db You got it mate... ! Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtriple Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thanks Bullet.....shouldn't you be sleeping? And don't worry we'll fix you up in the 2nd Test........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thanks Bullet.....shouldn't you be sleeping? And don't worry we'll fix you up in the 2nd Test........... I'd been in USA for a few days with work, and I really have no idea what time it is at all, and whether I'm meant to be awake or asleep! Mate, you don't need to fix us, we're awesome at completely throwing any sporting competition away without your help. All you guys need to do is turn up, look a little lively, and we'll fold like a cheap suit, I've no doubt! Fortunately, it's impact on my life is minimial, however there will be plenty of Poms crying about it for the summer! Take care and keep thinking about it, especially where to turn in addition to your visual drills! Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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