Chin Out Towards Mirror Whilst Cornering

[ozracer]

Hi all,

 

Recently completed level one course at phillip island and absolutely loved it cant wait to do level two. Looking for some guidance in relation to some advice a good friend has given me which he picked up from another school.

 

That being whilst coming into and progressing through a corner for instance a right hand corner getting your chin out towards the mirror on the bike in this example the right mirror. This is not something that seems to be taught by CSS and I haven't seen anything similar in relation to this in any of Keith's books. I have been trying to practice the level 1 drills as much as possible to make them common place and this just seems like a bit of a distraction to do this action as well. It is another thing to concentrate on when coming into corners. Im pretty sure the emphasis on this action is get your body placement right when cornering.

 

Any thoughts?

[jasonbw]

Gday Ozracer, good you posted this up!

 

You've quite nicely answered your own question! In Level 1 we gave you 5 specific drills to give you understanding as to what the bike needs and wants from you, the rider. The body positioning comes in the next two levels (more so in Level 3, but Level 2 will open your eyes so to speak), but let's try something to help answer your question:

 

Think back to your Level 1 drills, we armed you with some good technology, and gave you the information behind the technology so you could figure out for yourself why it works, you were then able to try the technology out for yourself on track... one drill/skill per session, that worked quite nicely right? Now as you've discovered for yourself, trying on someone's advice without having the understanding and direction behind it can cause distractions!

 

This isn't saying your good friends advice is wrong, actually, it's quite a well known and valid technique often called "kiss the mirror"... the kiss the mirror works on the principle of the rider getting his upper body forward and down to lower the combined centre of gravity (shares some tech to one of the Level 3 drills), also (depending on circumstances) compresses the forks to steepen the steering head angle which tightens the line but here's the catch ... this works well so long as the rider is able to comfortably hold this position without adding the unwanted bar input we talked about in the relax/rider input drill.

 

Think back to the turn you thought of when writing your post, Honda corner? whatever the case, put yourself back there sticking your chin out... did you notice the bike suddenly felt uneasy? you were not longer comfortable? Is there a possibility you were adding unwanted rider input into the bars?

 

The next two levels will arm you with the technology to accomplish this leading with the chin technique (and much more) comfortably and at will, all during a session where we can dedicate the whole session to just getting that one skill right!

 

In the meantime though, on your next ride or trackday, once you have warmed up and feeling like you could add this one new element in, just drop that speed down a notch (like we do at the school to assist in freeing up some mental attention) then try that technique again, but ensure you are remaining comfortable and relaxed such that no additional rider input is going into the bars. Hopefully it is a step in the right direction for you, if you are at all uncomfortable in holding that position then hold off for the schools where we can personally get you on the bike in the correct position so you can do this safely and effectively.

 

Sound good?

 

Jason (JB)

[Adam06]

Oz racer,

 

Jason is bang on the money here, as usual

 

Getting your chin near the inside mirror is a nice bit of advice, however there are exact reasons WHY it works, as Jason eluded to. Once you understand what those reasons are, you'll be able to use that technique exactly how and when you need it. Did you know you can use your body weight to manipulate the line the bike holds, without having to add any additional steering inputs?

 

Page 59 of Twist of the Wrist II touches on the idea behind this technique briefly, but for the full story get along to Level 3 sometime. We cover this point in detail in the very first Level 3 drill.

 

All the best,

 

Adam

[Jasonzilla]

It's a popular saying, but I don't really like it. It doesn't provide consistency. Finding a nice BP that:

 

 

1. takes weight off the bars and allows you to weigh the pegs as well as possible (I love pivot turning)

2. brings the center of gravity of the bike down and puts more weight inside

3. holds the bike up as much as possible while you're leaning as to maximize total lean while cornering

4. and being able to lead the bike with your eyes and head

 

These are all things to work on. Just "getting your head where your mirror would be" isn't a very solid plan. And if you look at pics from a trackday you'll see that it's not the best way to go about it. I work on putting my chest on the tank, and aim to put my shoulder on a certain part of the tank depending which way I'm going. A much better gauge as to where you're at when you're reviewing your day. I'm not sure how they teach it at CSS, as I haven't taken level 3.

 

Get a good BP and work on it a little at the end of the day when you're getting tired. A good BP is alright, but there are so many other things to focus on. You'll take better pics, but Matt Mladin, Shaky Byrnes and Tony Elias have all done well with a generic not as good as everyone else's BP.

[Bullet]

Interestingly, I've found I've leaned off less as I've improved, as I make sure that my visuals aren't disrupted by a desire to have my chin on the floor. either that, or i'm getting to old, fat and unfit. (OK, maybe a bit of that. LOL)

 

Jason's advice on how to achieve this though is excellent, and you'd be very well advised to sit and consume that over a cup of tea of two!

 

Bullet

[ozracer]

Thanks very much for your input guys really appreciated it. I'll stick to concentrating on those first 5 drills until I get back and do level 2. I'm finding that different people and different schools seem to have different points or positions on certain issues which can make it confusing or information overload at certain times. I'm going to stick solely with CSS for my tuition as I would rather stick with one system in a logical or applied order of learning. I think that when you come to expending those dollars in certain circumstances requiring maximum attention it's less confusing this way.

Cheers

 

Adam

[the razor]

Thanks very much for your input guys really appreciated it. I'll stick to concentrating on those first 5 drills until I get back and do level 2. I'm finding that different people and different schools seem to have different points or positions on certain issues which can make it confusing or information overload at certain times. I'm going to stick solely with CSS for my tuition as I would rather stick with one system in a logical or applied order of learning. I think that when you come to expending those dollars in certain circumstances requiring maximum attention it's less confusing this way.

Cheers

 

Adam

 

Adam. I just took level 1 myself (thunderbolt NJ). I was told to point the chin torward the line I needed to take (apex) . but after I went throught the 2 steps, I found myself doing it automatically. I saw my turinig point and before I got there I was already focussing on the apex, which brought my head (chin) toward the apex. (I used my periferial vision for the turning point). When I leaned to make the turn I was already I guess kissing the mirror. One thing I noticed and my coach Pete noticed in acouple turns, is that I got tense which made my entrace and exit a little bit rougher. But when I did relax (no presure on the handle bar), it was very smooth at the entrace and exit of the turn. I did practice this weekend all the techniques I learned in level 1 and one thing I am concentrating is to be smooth instead of agressive and I had a blast.

I just giving you my own experience and by not means I am telling you what to do. I will be taken Leve 2 and 3 spring time.

Good luck to you and keep it safe.

55 and stay alive.

Ramon

[Jasonzilla]

Interestingly, I've found I've leaned off less as I've improved, as I make sure that my visuals aren't disrupted by a desire to have my chin on the floor. either that, or i'm getting to old, fat and unfit. (OK, maybe a bit of that. LOL)

 

Jason's advice on how to achieve this though is excellent, and you'd be very well advised to sit and consume that over a cup of tea of two!

 

Bullet

 

It's the age, Bullet. I used to try leaning like Lascourz or Herrin, but have gotten to the point of just flopping down on the tank. Use that as an excuse to rest my back and am trying to spread it as technique so I don't look like some old dude napping on the tank while cornering.

[Crash106]

I just try to keep my body a bit on the INSIDE of the turn and look where I want to go. Usually that means I lean a bit forward and in. So, yup, that's toward the inside mirror.

 

For me, the less weight on my hands the better. Trying to go fast and be aggressive definitely makes the bike feel awkward and sluggish. I believe this is because my arms get stiff at the elbows, and then I over-control the bike which makes the everything from the tires up wobble and weave in the wrong directions. When I trust the bike to do more, it usually takes over and shows me a good time.