Making The Bike Unstable To Make It Stable

[strikerjb007]

I did Level 1&2 at NJMP last May. I remember Dylan explaining that we have to make the bike unstable to make it stable. Can someone elaborate on that? I truly can not recall what that was about. I was at a track day this weekend and one of the control riders said the same thing but then he said, that's sort of advanced you guys keep working on your lines and familiarizing yourself with the track.

 

Can someone refresh my memory? Thanks.

[Kevin Kane]

Striker; Dylan sent me the following note to share with you:

The point was when you are off the throttle the bike becomes unstable and therefore easier to turn.

 

Once the bike is leaned into the corner and on your desired line then you want to apply the throttle.

 

Dylan Code

From my phone--excuse typos

[Stroker]

Unstable means easier to turn and stable means more difficult to turn.Different factors contribute to stability eg - wheelbase.Some stability or instability is caused by the rider eg - rider input.

[Kevin Kane]

Isn't the stability question related to the 60/40 rule regarding weight distribution? When you’re on the throttle the weight moves to the rear wheel and the gyroscopic forces are increasing proportionately; doesn't that provide greater stability to the bike?

[Hotfoot]

Isn't the stability question related to the 60/40 rule regarding weight distribution? When you’re on the throttle the weight moves to the rear wheel and the gyroscopic forces are increasing proportionately; doesn't that provide greater stability to the bike?

 

Conversely, being OFF the throttle shifts more weight to the front, which compresses the front suspension, steepening the steering angle and making the bike less stable and easier to turn.

[faffi]

I guess that you per definition cannot change direction when the bike is stable as change of direction = instability. Once you have reached your trajectory, you bring the bike back to a stable position until you again need to alter direction. Sort of like you can make a tone, but if you want to make music, you must make noise as a stable tone isn't muvh fun

[Stroker]

I guess we are talking about " Good " and " Bad " instability then...instability you want and don't want...

[Kevin Kane]

I think it is a question of more or less as opposed to good v. bad in regard to stability in the motorcycle. There is more stability under acceleration and as Hotfoot stated when the motorcycle is off the gas the weight comes forward, the wheelbase shortens, the forks compress (diminishing the rake and trail) which all make turning the bike easier - by a lot; but the bike is also more unsettled at that same point. Once turned and the bike is accelerating, those same components return to a more neutral setting extending the shocks and the wheelbase, adding rake and trail back to the front and gyroscopic force to the wheels to keep the bike in a straighter line.

[Stroker]

Not to mention, instability can be useful - Look at the GP guys spinning the wheel to get the bike turned.It works for them but doesn't for most.

[ktk_ace]

Im guessing this is part of the no brake drill...

[Hotfoot]

Im guessing this is part of the no brake drill...

 

Well, sort of. The classroom section the original poster is referring to is about throttle control, which incorporates knowing when/how to roll ON the throttle but also when to roll OFF. When you go on track to PRACTICE throttle control, you do it without using brakes, which gives you a laser-sharp focus on entry speed and throttle control. You must time your throttle roll-off properly, to set your entry speed for the turn, and a majority of riders actually find that they are able to carry a lot more speed into the corner when they do this drill - lots of riders use the brakes to scrub off way too much speed without realizing it, and this drill is a real eye-opener in that regard.

[ktk_ace]

Im guessing this is part of the no brake drill...

 

Well, sort of. The classroom section the original poster is referring to is about throttle control, which incorporates knowing when/how to roll ON the throttle but also when to roll OFF. When you go on track to PRACTICE throttle control, you do it without using brakes, which gives you a laser-sharp focus on entry speed and throttle control. You must time your throttle roll-off properly, to set your entry speed for the turn, and a majority of riders actually find that they are able to carry a lot more speed into the corner when they do this drill - lots of riders use the brakes to scrub off way too much speed without realizing it, and this drill is a real eye-opener in that regard.

 

Thanks for clarifying , i greatly appreciate it!

[strikerjb007]

I was off on vacation. Thanks everyone. Now, I recall what this was about.