Issues with Right Turns! Help

[asic_ridah]

 

Hi guys!

 

Hi Guys!

I’ve been having big issues with right hand turns.  I’m not sure what it is but there is definitely something different that happens when I hangsoff on the right side!  It is obvious, the whole bike moves abruptly when I hangoff on the right!  I made this video to demonstrate. 

Both stands are level and stable.  I am not holding onto the bars.  What the hell is going on here?  Could it be one of the forks in the front?

Something is definitely wrong?  I notice this just as profoundly when I ride, when I go right the bike feels like it wants to abruptly tip over, and fall on top of me.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Hotfoot]

It's a little hard to tell just seeing it from the back side so take this with a grain of salt, but it looks to me like you are hanging your butt/hips off just a little bit too far on the right versus the left. On the left side you look comfortable and secure, and you are rotating your hips a bit to the left (into the turn) which sets you up nicely to get your upper body and head low and off to the left.

Comparatively, on the right side, it looks to me like you scoot your butt over farther, and can't rotate your hips as much into the corner, which seems to compromise the lock in of your outside knee and make it more awkward to get your upper body down and to the right.

Some things to check:

1) Are you too close to the tank to be able to rotate your hips towards the inside of the corner? Try scooting back just a little and see if it makes it easier.

2) Can you lock in your outside (left) knee as solidly on right turns as you can your outside (right) knee of left hand turns? If not, try not moving your hips quite so far to the rights on your right turns, rotate your hips a little more to the inside (right hip more toward the rear of the bike), and see if that pushes your left knee more solidly into a lock position on the tank.

3) Have you attended a school and done the "hip flick" exercise from Level 3? Making a smooth, consistent movement of the hips without bouncing on the pegs or adding any bar input is a benefit of that drill.

I know you said you are not holding onto the bars... but that would be one of the most common reasons for the bike feeling like it "wants to abruptly tip over", either during the transition or once hanging off - a really small amount of input can make a really big difference. One obvious thing that is different on rights versus lefts is that you have the throttle control in your right hand. Any chance that when you roll on the throttle you are putting some forward (steering) pressure on that right bar, causing the bike to lean over more (or faster) than you expect?

 

[asic_ridah]

35 minutes ago, Hotfoot said:

It's a little hard to tell just seeing it from the back side so take this with a grain of salt, but it looks to me like you are hanging your butt/hips off just a little bit too far on the right versus the left. On the left side you look comfortable and secure, and you are rotating your hips a bit to the left (into the turn) which sets you up nicely to get your upper body and head low and off to the left.

Comparatively, on the right side, it looks to me like you scoot your butt over farther, and can't rotate your hips as much into the corner, which seems to compromise the lock in of your outside knee and make it more awkward to get your upper body down and to the right.

Some things to check:

1) Are you too close to the tank to be able to rotate your hips towards the inside of the corner? Try scooting back just a little and see if it makes it easier.

2) Can you lock in your outside (left) knee as solidly on right turns as you can your outside (right) knee of left hand turns? If not, try not moving your hips quite so far to the rights on your right turns, rotate your hips a little more to the inside (right hip more toward the rear of the bike), and see if that pushes your left knee more solidly into a lock position on the tank.

3) Have you attended a school and done the "hip flick" exercise from Level 3? Making a smooth, consistent movement of the hips without bouncing on the pegs or adding any bar input is a benefit of that drill.

I know you said you are not holding onto the bars... but that would be one of the most common reasons for the bike feeling like it "wants to abruptly tip over", either during the transition or once hanging off - a really small amount of input can make a really big difference. One obvious thing that is different on rights versus lefts is that you have the throttle control in your right hand. Any chance that when you roll on the throttle you are putting some forward (steering) pressure on that right bar, causing the bike to lean over more (or faster) than you expect?

 

1. Could be I will adjust and give that a shot.

2. It feels like I accomplish this every time.

3. Not yet, but I do practice that drill all the time.  I’m working on doing this drill without touching the bars that is truly challenging! I think my throttle control is pretty good, no issues there.

Here are some views of me going left and right.  As you can see I have issues in both directions!

 

[Hotfoot]

The additional photos do help. To me, your right shoulder looks like it is pushed farther forward on the rights than your left shoulder on the left turns, which goes back to possibly having your butt over too far on the rights, and not being able to rotate your body (shoulders and hips) towards the turn. The hips want to counter rotate, loosens the grip of the outside knee, creates a feeling like you are falling off to the inside, pushes the right shoulder forward and creates tension and an awkward position on the right side. 

Are you clear about what I mean when I say "rotate your hips/shoulders into the turn"? If not, let me know and I have some better ways to explain that.

Another thing I see is that your wrist looks a little awkward on your throttle hand. For some, changing hand position on the throttle to more of a "screwdriver" grip can make it easier to turn the  throttle in right hand turns. Instead of having your wrist straight and having to make a motion where you move your hand up and down at the wrist, you can hold the throttle more like you'd hold a screwdriver, allowing you to rotate at the wrist instead of flexing it, does that make sense? It changes the angle of your forearm and can give you more freedom of movement and allow you to drop your elbow more easily. Something worth trying, to see if it helps.

[asic_ridah]

10 minutes ago, Hotfoot said:

The additional photos do help. To me, your right shoulder looks like it is pushed farther forward on the rights than your left shoulder on the left turns, which goes back to possibly having your butt over too far on the rights, and not being able to rotate your body (shoulders and hips) towards the turn. The hips want to counter rotate, loosens the grip of the outside knee, creates a feeling like you are falling off to the inside, pushes the right shoulder forward and creates tension and an awkward position on the right side. 

Are you clear about what I mean when I say "rotate your hips/shoulders into the turn"? If not, let me know and I have some better ways to explain that.

Another thing I see is that your wrist looks a little awkward on your throttle hand. For some, changing hand position on the throttle to more of a "screwdriver" grip can make it easier to turn the  throttle in right hand turns. Instead of having your wrist straight and having to make a motion where you move your hand up and down at the wrist, you can hold the throttle more like you'd hold a screwdriver, allowing you to rotate at the wrist instead of flexing it, does that make sense? It changes the angle of your forearm and can give you more freedom of movement and allow you to drop your elbow more easily. Something worth trying, to see if it helps.

Can you explain rotating your hips around the tank?

 

ive been working on the screwdriver grip.

 

 

[Hotfoot]

29 minutes ago, asic_ridah said:

Can you explain rotating your hips around the tank?

 

Hey, this picture looks much better, hear head, neck and shoulders look more turned into the (imaginary) corner and more relaxed, your knee is more open to the right so your elbow looks less crowded,  and the angle of your wrist looks more comfortable as well. Does it feel better?

"Rotating around the tank" (not a desirable situation) is when you are sitting TOO close to the gas tank, so that when you try to shift your hips to the side to hang off,  your upper thigh bumps into the tank and tends to force your hips to turn the WRONG way, so that instead of opening your hips into the corner, you end up twisting them away from the direction of the turn, which tends to pull your outside knee away from tank and mess up your lock-on. When you see riders with their butt hanging WAY off but their upper body crossed back over the tank and their head ending up in the middle or even the wrong side (and/or holding themselves up with a stiff inside arm) that is often the cause.

The easiest way to understand it is to try it - scoot ALL the way forward so you are up against the tank. Then try scooting your hips to the side and see how the tank restricts your movement or forces you to twist the wrong way. Then try moving back a bit in the seat (typically about a fist size space between tank and crotch is a good starting point, might need to go back more if your legs are long) and try it again and see how much easier it is to move your hips over, and to rotate your hips the INTO the turn instead of the opposite.

Let me know if that makes sense.