Cobie Fair
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Posts
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Posts posted by Cobie Fair
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Braking and downshifting is the single most complicated action of motorcycle riding, and some just give up when they don't get it correct. But...it's a good skill to master, where for street or track riding. Let us know how you progress on this.
It looks like the control trainer has had some progress, hopfully its going to be going up to Laguna for our booth there at the GP. If you didn't know, that is its purpose--to train the different shifting and braking skills: brakding and downshifting, clutchless upshifting, and clutchless downshifting.
Cobie
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Well, I've called 5 times (always get the machine) and left 2 messages over the past week. Guess they're not interested. Looks like a hotel for me. See you all in Aug.
Tim
Hi Tim,
I too left messages at the White Fence Inn last week and recvd no reply at all. I can only assume that they are full and don't wish to spend the money on a phone call to tell me. (Perhaps I will share my free long distance plan with them.) I thought that if I called back at a different time, they might just answer the phone. Honestly, I was a little surprised at Cobie's suggestion as the WFI is relatively small and, in the past, the school booked the entire place for the CSS crew.
Oh well... perhaps some of us could share expenses. If anyone is interested in that idea, send a PM or an email.
Regards,
racer
Im surprised that no one answered, they have been excellent regarding their service. I wonder if I have the correct phone number?
I'll double check on that.
The White Fence Inn
8842 Denman Road
Lexington, Ohio 44904
Phone: (419) 884-2356
Visit us on BedandBreakfast.com
Just checked, here is what's on the web.
C
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Good answers. Some mentioned a few specific things, and that would be great to know---like which thread or subject did you find interesting/helpful? Anyone got a subject they would like covered that has not been?
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Yes it does require a bit of a leap of faith but it does prove the throttle rule really well. When I rolled out of it before the entrance the bike just wasn't as stable feeling but once I could hold it open, the bike felt rock solid through the turn and just felt like it was sling shotting around the banking. I still know I can find a lot more time in the lap , but my goals were exceeded for my second visit. The fast local riders are turning 1.44's on massaged 600's and I only got to the low 1.58's before it started to rain for the last session. I know I'm still losing time exiting turn 10 (slight banked turn) which will increase my entrance speed into one, and I'm still losing a lot into 2, it is just scarier than 1 with the trees so close!
Its been a while since I have been there (early 90's), but it sure was exciting then, more so now with the faster bikes. Are they running track days up there pretty regularly, and if so, what's the best one?
Cobie
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Hi All,
One of the purposes of the forum is to get riders together that have questions/comments/observations, about riding--cornering moslty
So here's the survey question: what have you gotten from being on the forum? What subjects covered, advice given, new insights, technical points, riding tips, or simply a place to post your questions and have someone answer them politely (seems to be a pretty polite forum to me).
Let us know. Particularly if you don't post often (or at all), but you get some value from being up here, I'd like to hear.
Best,
Cobie Fair
Chief Riding Coach
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Whats going on everybody. I just joined i hope to get a lot of helpful info. My goal is to try and catch a 2 day camp this year at Laguna Seca. I dont own a race bike, But i do have a Ducati monster. I think it does pretty good in cornering. I havent brought it down to my knee yet. Thats also why i want to take these classes. That way i can try to do it in a controlled place. I live in Fresno CA. and am going to moto gp next week at Laguna.
Hi Madsteam, and welcome aboard!
We do go to Laguna for 2 days of single day schools, but no actual 2-day camps. Those have a different format, and if you can do one, they are great. More service, more track time, video reviews, etc.
Lots of good stuff up here, and let us know if you have any questions/thoughts you'd like addressed.
Best,
Cobie
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C
When is this video coming out and where can I get it from?
Sorry for going off topic
We don't have the release date yet, its quite a project, massive amount of work going into it.
Best,
C
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Well on my second visit to Brainerd International Raceway I was finally able to hold it wide open into one. I was also able to shave 6 seconds off my lap time since my first visit. Damn that is a fast track, now I'm hooked on it and will only have 2 more likely chances to try to get better. Now I just to have to grow bigger cohones to hold it open through 2, the runoff there is a little scary. Any Brainerd specific tips from any who have ridden it. I'm still pumped about it 2 days later!
Pretty darn good to hold it open in turn 1 there
C
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The foot coming off is when they move it from making the shift (backshift/downshift), and are putting it back on the peg.
Remember the corner entry speeds, and look at how quickly they get it from upright to turned. They are on tires we can't buy, on bikes we can't buy/rent/use, and there isn't much time from when the backshift is done, to the bike being leaned over. As for flattracking it, I think most of the saves are done with the knee. As for weight being out there, the weight is still supported by something, so not sure how it would be an advantage--if supported by the torso, it's on the seat/pegs, wherever they are attached to the bike--maybe even a little on the bars.
What do you guys see on this?
C
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Just did my level 1 at Rockingham UK and it was amazing what a difference in my riding in 1 day, it was raining most of the day dried out for my 3rd session then started to rain again but the wet weather just slowed everything down a bit and gave more time to focus on the drills, I never thought I`d ever say I enjoyed riding in the rain but It was great and my throttle control has improved loads and then the last session when I did the 2 step drill that just opened up the whole track to me and suddenly I had loads of space, who would have thought that how you use your eyes could make such a big difference.
My instructor (Jet) was great and helped me out loads with things I was struggling with and has definately made me a safer, faster and better rider, also Andy Ibbott was brilliant in the class room setting out our drills and explaining what to do and what benifits we would get from doing them and why they worked.
The whole day was great and I cant wait to do the rest of the levels but untill then I will be practicing my level 1 drills untill they become 2nd nature to me.
Great to hear that you made it and got the expected result !
Best,
Cobie
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Having done the 2 day camp in Feb I was curious as to when next years dates get set. Gotta come back for level 3-4 and bring some friends for level 1-2.
Hi Sleepr,
It's actually a little earlier than 2bigalow had. We normally get a rough schedule by November, about Thanksgiving. You are welcome to pester the office or shoot an e-mail to us, we'll be happy to keep you posted.
If you give the office your e-mail, they will put you on the list, and send out the schedule when it is released.
Best,
Cobie
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I have allotted time / money to do level 1&2 early next year (once your schedule is out) but reading the web site this seems to be something you look at in level 3. Would I benefit from using stompgrip or is this something much more fundamental than that?
OK, you are going to get a lot of help on this subject at both level 1 and 2. The thing is, there are several substantial pieces to this, its not one quick, simple answer (how to be stable on the bike, and deliver what the bike needs). I'm not going to just be flip and give you a quick answer, as it wouldn't be correct, or complete.
If you could even get to level 1 this year, it would help a lot.
Stomp grip for sure does help, allows one to hold on to the bike with the legs.
There are a few reasons that a lot of lean angle and tire can be used (body position is only 1, and often not the most critical) it is really a major source of the training, sorting this issue out. The chapters on steering in Twist 2 will give you some insight to this, that would be something you could do right away. Do you have Twist 2?
Best,
Cobie
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I think the only thing that happens when you are leaned over and accelerate is speed up, not stand up the bike.
Is this wrong?
The bke doesn't stand up under acceleration. It will run wide, but won't stand up. Here is a tease for you guys: we did some fun and interesting stuff in Twist 2 vidoe shoot...I can hardly wait to see it myself!
C
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Cobie;
This is such an important fact to share with this Forum because (IMHO) too many newer riders consider it a litmus test of their riding skill and focus too much energy on touching down at the expense of smooth cornering or faster lap times.
I remember getting the "tail" sign from one of your faster coaches at Watkins Glen and as we flew around the Carousel with our knees about 6 inches off the deck, we blew past and underneath a rider whose titanium sliders were sparkling like the Fourth of July...he looked cooler then we did but going faster was way more fun! ; )
Kevin
Kevin,
It is for sure something that riders can get wrapped up in, and at certain tracks, it's a lot more work and really can complicate things. For example, Streets of Willow Springs. That is a fun track, but very technical and busy (meaning lost of turns and series of turns). Stringing the turns together well is a real skill. Stringing them together when the hang-off skills are not in great shape, it can slow one down more than one is getting the benefit. Laguna Seca is much simpler in fact--turn followed by a straight, turn/straight, etc., not nearly as demanding on these skills, and easier to prepare for the coming turn.
C
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Haven't touched my solid mounted pegs on my Duke II (I have some Woodcraft rear sets for an R1 that I modified to fit). I'm getting ready to install solid mounted pegs on my VFR because I like the "connected" feel so much. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking something.
On the VFR, not sure how high those are, seems more likely you could touch those down, might want to find the limit gently
C
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A little follow up on the b and b--it's been great, but not every single room has a/c, that can be an issue for some. But the setting, location, people--excellent. Now you and racer can continue your philosophical discussions!
C
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Chapter 19 of Twist 2 is some of the most illuminating words ever written about riding a motorcycle around a curve. You may have to read it several times, contemplate your navel for a couple of days, and then re-read it again. It's a little heavy concept but once you grasp what Keith is saying in Chapter 19 it's significance rivals the importance of learning counter steering.
I think Keith could teach an entire school or two just around the concept(s) in Chapter 19.
Great to hear that! I do review that regularly too
C
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Hi Chris,
Hanging off can be an important skill, but not the most critical. I'll give you an example: I had one of my coaches following another, newer coach. Newer coach wasn't slow, but not the fastest. He was riding in front, didn't know the other coach was behind, and coach in front was knee on the ground everywhere. Coach in back stayed right on the middle of the seat. If for sure can have its place, and at the ultimate pace it's an advantage, but if the other more key skills aren't learned, it can be a problem. 2 of my fastest coaches don't hang off much--makes the other skills too hard.
Best,
Cobie
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Hi RDR,
Glad you are up here, and please do get some contributing done
I agree, Keith does have a knack of communicating, and I think he's just gotten better.
Best,
Cobie
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Just wanted to say hello. New to the forum and hope to get alot and add alot to everbody. I live in Tracy Ca. I live within an hour or so from Sacramento, Sonoma, Willows, and Laguna Secca. I hope to go to a school or two soon. I have a love for the feel of dropping gears ond getting into some nice turns. Lean hard everybody!!! I will hopefully be at some track days this year. See you there.
Hi rydnonedge
Welcome aboard, and I think you are in the right company
Best,
Cobie
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Hello, all.
I see there are 2 hotels recommended on the Mid Ohio website. I was wondering which one do most people and/or the rider coach team prefer? I'll be at the 2 day camp in Aug. Anyone else doing the camp or overnighting? TIA
Tim
Tim,
We usually stay at the White Fence Inn, a bed and breakfast across from the track. Likely they don't have room over the race weekend (but you never know, give them a ring) and they also have some other b and b's to recommend. Here is the number I have: 1419-884-2356
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I'd like the hear the pros and cons on this subject. I sure do like the feed back I get from solid mounted pegs but when you put one down it can be bad news.
If they are solid mounted, usually up and out of the way--have you touched them down, and if so on what bike?
Last bike I rode with solid pegs, loved the grip and positiveness of moving around. Sometimes with the folding pegs, I've had the peg follow my foot as I took it off or moved--a little disconcerting.
Cobie
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Whoohoo Peter!
Sorry the bike broke, errr!
CF
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Is this technique taught at school, or has it been subsumed by another technique? Thanks in advance. As much as I savor every minute of summer, I can't wait until November for Levels III and IV!! Yee haa!!
"Subsume" good word, had to look that one up, had no idea what it meant.
Looking For More Info On Downshifting
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Cobie,
I see you mention clutchless shifts. Now i normally do clutchless upshifts (after first to second as crossing neutral tends to be a bit of a jerky shift on both my bikes) however I have never tried or even contemplated clutchless downshifts. Is this something you are looking at teaching accross the board or just with slipper clutches and/or with quick shifters?
Rich
Hi Rich,
Clutchless downshifts can be done, any sportbike that I have ridden, it's been no problem. I have done it on other bikes, cruisers and such, in some cases not as easy, larger flywheel?.
I don't use the clutch at all, up or down, after letting it out in first. We can train riders on it, there are some do's and don't to it though. The timing on it is the hardest part for many to get, especially when learning how to do it with the clutch, and that's what we normally start with. Everyone shoud have that skill, though I wonder in a few years with slipper clutches and electronics that blip the throttle (GP bikes) if it'll be a skill people will need in 10 years?
C
C