Cobie Fair
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Posts posted by Cobie Fair
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So here's my question from this topic. I had a similar experience at a trackday a few months back. The cones were laid out for TP, Apex, exit and there were perhaps 2 TP cones that I thought should be deeper. Why not, I could hold throttle longer, turn and still make the corner, right? Later in the day, I decided to "try" the established line and I found that it wasn't the upcoming corner that worked better (I thought it was worse and so goofy) but it made the upcoming SECTION easier.
So based on Tweek's original question and my experience, it is just an "experience is best teacher" thing with knowing where you want to put your line?
To really comment on that, might need a little more info: was it a section with multiple turns, did you go slower through there, or less in control? In other words, what is the "section" exactly, and what was easier?
Best,
Cobie
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I just joined the forum and like what I see so far. I have been riding on the track for several years, but took some time off. Unfortunately the time off added more time to my lap times. I will be taking the Level 1 and 2 school at Barber on August 23 and 24. I am looking forward to the school and hopefully I can figure out what is currently holding me back.
Thanks,
Shane
Hi Shane,
First off, welcome to the forum, glad you are up here
Barber is a nice track, we'll shoot to have a nice few days down there. Please do come and say hello, I'll be there. In the mean time, have a look around post any questions/comments that you have.
Best,
Cobie Fair
Chief Riding Coach
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I think your answer brought up one of my fears - in trying to turn quickly you end up turning too much. I was wondering about how you know how far to lean it when your quick turning. The more I think about quick turning the more confused I get, in my head I see it as the same as squaring the corner off so you can get good drive out or is that something else completly? I guess this is where the school comes in rather than just reading the book.
Regards
Paul
Ps the stompgrip has made a big difference to the hanging off problem.
Yeah, the S/Grip is good stuff when hanging off.
There are a few pieces to getting the quick turning working well, and sometimes just simply getting a few good demonstrations on how to do it, well--a picture can be worth a few words.
Here is a question: what is the purpose for turning the bike quickly--in other words, why do you, Paul, want to get it turned quicker?
C
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How deep do you brake into a turn?
That was one of the things in my L1 i was a little confused about as braking wasn't covered much, is it covered in the later levels?
I was going to put my normal procedure here but would like to hear from you guys and gals first if that's ok
Hi Rick,
Well, you'll likely get a few lively answers to that one. There is of course more and better info in the Twist books, but one comment on the subject would be--how well can you get your corner entry speed set, and make sure the other skills you learned in Level 1 don't go out the window?
Here's a nice comparison: at our local track, if a student brakes into the 1:40's he's going pretty well, 1:30's doing very well, and below a 1:30 would be smoking for a student. I had a coach do 1 gear no brakes and did a '28.
C
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I dont know if you could say that Gibernau has an ally in Stoner, iIf you remember Portugal 2006 it was Stoner that wiped Gibernau out of the race forcing him into retirement, then to rub salt in the wounds he took over from Sete at Ducati! Stoner has had it all his own way at Ducati since he seems to be the only rider out there that can be competitive on the bike! Now it looks like Gibernau is set to return and he tested the bike at Mugello within 10ths of Stoners best lap time so it should be interesting.
He's a good rider, we'll see if he can keep the rest together.
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I've decided that I am definitely getting a new bike and going racing again next year. With the demise of the AMA 250GP I should be able to find a newer TZ250 for < $5k...
Well good luck with that racer, let us know how that goes!
I've got a friend that has got one in pieces in a garage--never put it back together after he crashed it last. I'll shoot him a note, see if he wants to part with it. He's had it there for a while, so likely not in a hurry.
C
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I agree with you 100000 percent on the sense of speed thing Cobie. However, I had been suffering with confidence problems. And doing it this way, I could enter at a predicable speed each and every time until I was satisfied with my line and throttle control (smooth roll on, looking through corner, etc). Then I could focus on small increments of speed increases 2,3 or 5 mph and remind myself to keep the SRs in check that I was well within the limits. When the confidence picked back up and faster riders joined me...the speedo had to go and the speed climbed using sense of speed.
But alas, Soft Science is on my "To Do" list.
Excellent, glad to hear that. Hey Racer, lend me $20?
C
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Could Mr. Average turn the bike too quickly?--one could punch the bars, and that would upset the bike, but
By punching the bars do you mean this literally? like removing your hand from the bar then hitting it with the palm of your hand unsettling the bike.
The way I practice quick turns is to approach the turn point then firmly push the inside bar and relax immediately, I find that doing the 2 step drill stops me from turning too much, though I still feel that I should be steering even quicker! Im always practicing!
Some guys really do hit the bar too hard, that of course would be a mistake. And, your use of the 2-step == excellent!
Steering it quicker is a big skill, one of the top ones I think. I worked on it as my prime area for improvement for a long time (and certianly still pay attention to it like any skill).
C
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Hi Cobie,
If you click on the "BB Code Help" button at the lower right of the posting/editing field, you will find some other frequently used BB Code forms. You can also click on the "Reply button to see the codes used by other posters spelled out as it were. For instance, you can see how to add names, post numbers and date/time stamps to the opening quote code that the software adds automatically. I've been meaning to drop you a note to point it out to you. Sorry I didn't get to it sooner.
Regards,
Bill
Thanks Bill, that helps!
C
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It was the thought of turning too quick & loosing traction. I see on page 75 Doug C says ,he thinks you could never turn too quick to loose the front etc.' but is that based on his ability & GP bike setup or Mr. Average's ability & setup. The question about the SR's was whether you have to battle your quick turn SR's so much that you would never turn so quickly as to loose the front.
Am I best to practice quick turns on 1 particular corner until I get it speeded up or all corners & is it best to keep the same entry speed & keep reducing the lean as the steering gets quicker?
Regards
Paul
Paul--as the starting point, it's good to know, can the bike be turned too quickly, from the viewpoint of a top rider? Any skill level below that won't isn't going to do more would they? Can a person have a problem with their survival reactions by turning it too quick?you bet (we work on this quite a bit at the school). Could Mr. Average turn the bike too quickly?--one could punch the bars, and that would upset the bike, but typically when riders turn it quicker they often turn it too much, not the same thing. We work on this a lot too.
There are a few things to consider when practicing turning it quickly: warm the tires up! That is done by working them in the turns, gradually increasing the speed. Have good tires! Smoking discount for students if you didn't already know that (shameless plug here). Braking and turning quickly at the same, that can ask too much from the tires.
Let me know if this answered your questions or not.
Best,
Cobie
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Shannon,
A ZX-10 is a blast no doubt about it, and I really like the new one a lot.
That being said, I'm still faster on a ZX-6 than a 10. Depends on the track, and with this new 10 and a few miles I might be able to change that, but...this also might be true for a number of my coaches. At the Streets of Willow, the track record is still held with a 600. Stuman came close with his ZX-10, but guys on 600's still beat what he could do.
Best,
C
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Good morning all, I am doing your level 4 program next week at Mid-Ohio during which I will also be trying out as a new rider coach. One of the items Cobie has recommended I take care of before I show up is the interviewing of two different rider coaches.
I have limited knowledge of what I should probably be asking but nonetheless I do have some questions which I can list below.
Are there any willing coaches who I can interview before next Tuesday, the 5th of August?
Here are some of my initial questions...
1.) What was the biggest surprise about the cirriculum that you experienced when you began the training for this position?
2.) What has been the most most rewarding part of your overall experience?
3.) Why did you persue this opportunity?
4.) What brought you here, and where do you see this going?
Thanks in advance to those who reply. Also, I can be reached here --> brianhevans@hotmail.com
-Looking forward to the opportunity....
--> Brian Evans
Hi Brian,
Some good questions (I won't answer them here though), but we'll see you next week.
Best,
cobie
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G'day all,
Just joined the forum. Looks good - keen to do one of these schools down under one day.
Cheers
Hi Spotcom,
Welcome aboard! The Oz boys will be happy to look after you. Let us know if you have any questions on the school (or anything else).
Best,
Cobie
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One comment on something earlier in the thread: using the speedo to track/judge your corner entry speed. Every one has a sense of speed, and it's a skill that can and should be worked. Race bikes don't have speedos (certainly not the majority) and riders can get into trouble looking down at the speedo when they should be looking up! There is more on this in Soft Science if you guys don't already know that.
As for the 'Ring, I guess don't mind hanging my neck out a bit, but when others could chop it off...I dunno.
C
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Stoner did refuse to shake Rossi's hand in the 'parc ferme'. Stoner was getting ready to do an interview, when Rossi walked up to him with his hand out and a smile. Stoner shook his head and said no, no, and turned back to the interview obviously upset.
The US telecast was live. I'm sure it was later edited out for PR reasons. I was disappointed we didnt get to see the 'official' after race interviews.
Hey 2big--how did you see that, and the rest of us didn't?
C
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Forum experts: OK, how come sometimes when I quote/reply to someone it puts their quote in a box, and sometimes not?
Best,
C
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Later corner entry - only time it's a plus is if I am too early into the corner & I guess the limit to this will be either SR driven or getting it correct for my drive thru' the turn.
OK so by quick turning I will get less lean so can be safer or go faster still & more likely to get on throttle earlier. So I need to practice quick turning, is it possible for me to turn too quickly or is that unlikely because of SR's? I guess I need some reasonably open corners for this just in case. I guess I could be doing a lot of mid corner steering changes before I get this one cracked.
This technique can be done anywhere, it's nice to practice on a track, as one can really set a line that will allow no mid-turn corrections (not always possible on a street ride).
Your question on can you turn it too quickly--were you referring to the SR's that generates or loosing traction, or something else? I just went and thumbed through T-2. There are some nice comments on this subject (I'm assuming you have Twist 2) by Doug Chandler in the margins on pages 70-75, might want to just check those out.
Please clarify the part of your question for me (on turning too quickly) we can get that answered.
Best,
Cobie
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I signed up for two individual days of Level 1 and Level 2 at the new Thunderbolt track at NJ Motorsports Park on August 11 and 12. I definitely want to get some nice photos at least.
So I'm just curious on how this works. Do you have to bring your own camera/person to get photos of yourself? Does the school do it? Professional photographers around? How much, etc? Whats the best way about this? Also same questions for video?
Thanks!
Imran
Hmmm...I was sure I responded to this, but yes we do have a photographer that will be at the schools, with rare exception. He has a set up there, had can do photos, and/or CD's, and he's doing a pro.
Best,
Cobie
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I am a new rider and just started riding this summer. I have a 98 Ninja 250 and so far have taken the MSF basic rider's course, and ridden about 800 miles on the street over the past few months. Most of the miles have been on country back roads and twisties. I have all 3 of Code's books, but the only one I've started so far is Twist 2, finished the Throttle Control section.
I signed up for two individual days of Level 1 and Level 2 at the new Thunderbolt Track in NJ on August 11 and 12. Just curious to see if anyone on here will be there? Even which instructors are coming?
Also what do you guys think of the track? Seems it just opened this earlier this month. http://youtube.com/watch?v=cUYlw_ejtYQ&feature=related
I think this would be the same config, but not sure. It seems pretty high speed, would it be a good place to learn technical cornering, or would you guys suggest doing the school at a different track?
I am doing the school on their ZX-6. I was also wondering with my limited experience, after doing the Level 1 and 2 on their ZX-6, would I be okay to move up to an 03-06 Japanese 600cc sportbike?
Any other advice, comments?
Thanks!
Imran
Hi Imran,
I've already answered with my thoughts (in some e-mails), but I would like to have some of the other forum guys get up here and give you theirs.
best,
Cobie
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For the longest time, I've heard that the "proper" position is to use the balls of your foot on the foot pegs. I noticed that top level including MotoGP guys lock their heel step onto the pegs. Are they just at a level of performance where they can transcend the rules or is this no longer a "rule"?
Outside or inside foot? Looks to me most of them move their foot back up after they shift. If it's the outside peg, and theirs are where ever they want them to be, they could get them up high enough so they wouldn't drag a toe--that's the issue on street bikes, dragging the toes way too early.
Cobie
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Glad I fired up this discussion:
Racer- I agree with you that people should take responsibility for their own education. Nuff said about that
Regarding T2, I read a thread posted by Mr. Code where he says that when he wrote T2 he didn't have the best understanding about the concept of pivot steering and promised to update it in Twist 3. That was in 2003.
OFF TOPIC:
Cobie, et al
My only Code posessions are the Twist 1 DVD. What would be the best investment in study material for me? (I own other publications too, so I do read) Should I wait until the T2 DVD comes out and purchase it and risk redundancy by purchasing it AND the T2 book? Or do they not cove the same information?
---- I suppose for that matter I could ask the same question about T1 Book vs DVD--- (hey I did, but never got an answer)
PS- Cobie, you're in the T1 DVD credits, but I can't spot you. Where are you?
Hi Jaybird,
I like the T-1 DVD (the new T-2 is gonna rock), but they don't have all the info that is in the books. So, the books are my mainstays. One point are the comments by Eddie Lawson, Wayne Rainey, and Doug Chandler. Seeing what they have to say is a nice addition.
In T-1 I worked as a rider, some stuff on the cruiser, a shot where I nearly hit the car (which was coming around a righthander), some of the group shots, one of the slow-mo shots. Might be more, but that's what I recall off the cuff.
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Glad I fired up this discussion:
Racer- I agree with you that people should take responsibility for their own education. Nuff said about that
Regarding T2, I read a thread posted by Mr. Code where he says that when he wrote T2 he didn't have the best understanding about the concept of pivot steering and promised to update it in Twist 3. That was in 2003.
OFF TOPIC:
Cobie, et al
My only Code posessions are the Twist 1 DVD. What would be the best investment in study material for me? (I own other publications too, so I do read) Should I wait until the T2 DVD comes out and purchase it and risk redundancy by purchasing it AND the T2 book? Or do they not cove the same information?
---- I suppose for that matter I could ask the same question about T1 Book vs DVD--- (hey I did, but never got an answer)
PS- Cobie, you're in the T1 DVD credits, but I can't spot you. Where are you?
Hi Jaybird,
I like the T-1 DVD (the new T-2 is gonna rock), but they don't have all the info that is in the books. So, the books are my mainstays. One point are the comments by Eddie Lawson, Wayne Rainey, and Doug Chandler. Seeing what they have to say is a nice addition.
I worked as a rider, some stuff on the cruiser, a shot where I nearly hit the car (which was coming around a righthander), some of the group shots, one of the slow-mo shots. Might be more, but that's what I recall off the cuff.
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*
Hey Racer--does the "*" mean something here...?
Cobie
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One more quick video - this is somebody filming all the action at the Karrussel from the outside of the corner at the exit during a 'Touristfahren' (i.e. public lapping) session last summer.
I just had a look at this video--what I hadn't known before was how much banking was on the inside where the concrete it. Tons, while the outside has much less, big distinct change in the camber.
C
Drawing Lines
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
OK, not familiar with that, but there was something in your previous e-mail that I hadn't really answered. One way to look at a section is to take section lap times. A major tool for chekcing ones progress is lap times. The track can be borken down into different sections, and for reference you could also time others on similar bikes. Sometimes it's not obvious that giving up a little in one area will make another better. I don't recall exactly where Keith has this in the books (anyone?) but he talks about how you make time in the fast corners, so that's another point to consider with how to dissect a section.
Let us know what you do, and if this works.
Cobie