nydude2000

hey Jody... Thnks for reply just don't laugh at me too much Let me know what dates u are doing T-bolt in aug and I will say hi Do you do Track Days there (Tbolt)???...there are a bunch of clubs that run days and most are pretty good. I have like 8 lined up before CSS in Aug lol (well a few are at lightning too) steve d

I am not sure that this wasn't posted before but heard about this on the NESBA board I will post it here. Normally would not do that but...anyway...I think that I had actually seen her at one of our track days here Just has to make you think EVERY TIME YOU GET ON THE TRACK http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=6422 steve d

NJMP is my home tack and feel really lucky to have it. I have run Thunderbolt like 15+ track days and a CSS and it just gets better and better. It is pretty technical and even after 15 days I still have trouble with some of the transitions (which isn't saying much since I am pretty much a noob). On top of it..there is a 1/2 mile straight..and more advanced dudes are doing 150+ down it The quick transitions to the straight are a blast and the two tight turns before that too Of the tracks I have been on (and that isn't alot) it is clearly hands down the best...may be close to a universal consensus for people I have talked to at the track..and that is saying alot for it being in NJ lol Anyone who does it will have a blast i think. (and Lightning is pretty fun too )

Hey Scott...I hear you..and you are absolutely right...and I too am constantly working on each of the drills and there is NO QUESTION that they help to keep you on track (pun intended)..in fact it has allowed me to get where I am on the bike now...but I guess at some point it all has to flow into a "oneness" : bike me track...just hitting all those TPs perfectly and not really thinking about how to do it....Having been on this track 15+ times and doing a CSS on the track too...I think I am starting to get a hint of it at this slower speed..all those drills/skills flowing together...and I like it (and no, i am not deluding myself into thinking I am anywhere close to being a competent rider)... But I feel its closer...now I just need to work on being able to do it better and faster.

Thanks Cobie...and here comes a little brown nosing Pretty much everything I have learned is from CSS...otherwise I think I would have quite this long ago. Everytime I do CSS i learn something more and get better. Now though I think it is getting tuffer. The learning curve is harder and somehow I have to start trying to put it all together insead of having 15 drills to work on separately...but it is fun trying Hopefully I will get my 8 more track days before next CSS and then at CSS we can REALLY work on stuff Steve D

Hey Cobie Thanks SO MUCH for response and taking time to check the vid. I think you suggestions are perfect. I like the idea of quicker speed out of the turn and thinking I really need to work on that. The pick-up drill was one that I never quite got i think so that will be a great place to start and I think that will help A LOT. That way I won't have to worry about entry speed increase for a bit till I get that worked out. I think just that alone will help with times...there are a lot of turns and combos where I can see it helping on Thunderbolt and just thinking about it is something I need to work on. It also might be natural to increase entry speed a little to ...I hear you about tight on the bars though..when I start going a little faster I can feel my hands and arms starting to get tired lol... I would love to see a CSS vid on Tbolt but you all don't have one up on it yet I have been doing the track thing for about 2 years now: my first CSS was Nov 08 at LV, did Streets this past March 09, and just did Thunderbolt CSS a couple of weeks ago. I did about 10 track days last year and have done almost that many so far this year and have like 8 more planed before CSS is back in Aug (yes I do so have the bug) Most of the days are at Thunderbolt and a few at Lightning Thanks again for the come-back and I will let you know how it works. Steve D

I am just wondering if any of you have been at the same spot I am now. I have done 5 CSS classes (2 lvl 4's) and have been working on my home track (Thunderbolt NJ: hence the title of the post ) A LOT and have pretty much gotten the track down. I seem to have things ok..picking up TPs (can do it in my sleep I think..I have done +10 track days at Tbolt), hit my points ok, braking seems ok, and even though I can't see it, I think my body position is ok…locking in etc (not dragging a knee but don't think I should be at this speed). Lap times are consistent within say 1-2 secs when not in traffic …but….they are 25+ seconds slower than the people in the advanced group. Trouble is I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GO FASTER. I could probably shave a bunch of seconds off times by pegging it on the straights and braking harder, but I don't think that is the best solution. I know ultimately it has to do with turn entry speed, I just don't know how to increase it (without going off the track). Any ideas? Should I just not worry about it and work on technique and hopefully speed will come? Trouble is I don't think I can progress without pushing up the speed some. I am very comfortable at my current speed level so except for lapses of concentration (ADD kicks in) I do pretty well. I did a video of my friend last weekend (the camera is on my bike). You can see how I do the turns etc (just can't see me)…If I look like ###### let me know..don't be kind (just kind of ignore the turns where i was watching my friend and missed my TPs )

I did CSS at Tbolt also and as usual it was great. Cobie...Tbolt and NJMP is my home track..so yea I feel SO lucky!! The more I do Tbolt the more I really appreciate that track! and Lightning aint too bad either

Hey Doc.. I can empathize...and I am not at ur lvl ..so take this as you may...just giving you my experience..some of which is outside of the MC riding thing..but still applicable i think.. My question would be..how much "formal" riding training have you had..either school or "real individual coaching"..Sometimes I think, when things are going bad, you need a basic skill and drill set to be able to fall back on to get back to where you need to be. And even if you have that skill set, it may take an outside force to' see what needs to be done and to find the path to work it out. I think just following someone around..although ok...may not be what you really need.. My experience with track day coaching has been marginal at best (well intentioned but always seems to fall short)...maybe some really good back to basic formal coaching (like a reputable school) to get you back on track (no pun intended...lol) and get you some of your confidence back is what you may need. That kind of stuff has helped me progress when I thought I couldn't (and not just with MC riding) anyway...just my thoughts...hope you work it out!!!! Steve d

Hi BC, How about just doing one thing at a time, as the major focus? If you are going to a new track, getting to know it and its turn/parts is where many start, that could be step 1. CF Got it...1.Get to know the track. Thanks C Also a friend suggested that I also work on the no breaks drill for a better part of the day. Is that something that I should also work on? I really appreciate your opinion, thanks again! BCNU Hey BCNU I am kind of in your situation too..although have done some trackdays...finshed the CSS lvls...and I think what Cobie says is best...kind of like at CSS...just work on one thing at a time. You seem to have a pretty good sense too of what is important. Working on getting to know the track is key...and can take the whole 1st track day or more...I use the vision drills (three step) this seems to help me ALOT..in fact no matter what..I always seem to be working on that..MY last CSS school was at Streets and I was having an bummer of a time with the track...coach just had me backstep and use the vision drills for a bit and it worked great... Most clubs at trackdays have several orientation laps for the beginners..and they usually set up markers so you can pick up your turn in point, apex and out point..makes it relatively easy pick up your reference points...I think this really helps in learning the track..Once you have that down and are pretty consistent in the turns..you probably can move to something else.. and not worrying about going fast is real key..just take it nice and slow to start... Let us know how it goes...trackdays are SO MUCH FUN...and I think a great way to work on and extend what you learned at CSS

Well just finished another track day...and did some more street riding and it seems no doubt that the track experience makes EVERYTHING better on the street...just fells so much more comfortable on the bike...body position...vision...braking..what inputs do to the bike..confidence...my limits...all of it.... And I am not just talking about CSS either...I think practicing on the track.."gently" pushing the limits in a controlled enviorment and continually refines the skills...just makes for a better rider...It is really hard to refine and extend what you learned at CSS on the street..it needs the tack to do that.. Does it mean I will be less likely to have an accident on the street...hummm...not sure...since so much goes into that...but I have to belive that the skill will help in pretty much any situation..hey pretty much everytime i have done CSS i have run the bike off the track..lol...but with the training..didn't panic and keep the bike up.. There is also a very big added benefit i think of riding the track...I have really no desire to go fast when street riding any more...

Just a follow up...had a couple of track days..and worked mainly on foots Took everyone's advice and really concentrated on that.. Basically I had the ball of foot, centered on peg, but I really concentrated on locking the inside (turn side) heal in..basically fitting it into the swingarm (seems to go there naturally on my bike). This had the advantage of naturally rotating the hip and knee out...felt very natural after awhile and worked will with getting the BP set for the turn...Hubb..it kind of feels like you said with your "wings"...the foot seems to go same spot all the time now... Anyway...thnks for help... Cobie...hope to see u at CSS at NJMP in May Steve D

There seem to be a million things i need to get set perfect every time in a turn...lol..but I am going to work on the feet this time out I think... And yes it is the Jerez save...truely amazing...I really like watching Edwards ride!

Hey Cody Welcome...can't add to much more about the schools..except they are great. I see u are from NJ ...so we have a GREAT track in our neighorhood... NJMP is great and Thunderbolt is just an awesome track!!! I will be doing CSS there on May 15th too...if u can make it ..would be a great way to get started...you will learn a ton and it will change the way you ride.. There are also alot of track days at NJMP (many clubs run track days there) so you could practice what you learned at CSS .... Team Promotion use to do a race prep class at some of their track days...but they don't seem to be doing it anymore. My advice though would be to do some CSS levels and then practice what you learned at track days before getting heavy into racing... If you need any more info or anything...give a holler Hope to see you at Thunderbolt Steve D

Hey Hub...thnks for input...yea..it really only was that turn 8 and I don't think i ever got that turn right..i think though that my body position still isn't right...i know that another student "locked in" the inside foot (heal back and into the bike) and he said that really helped...who knows...right now I am so confused lol...I have kind of gotten addicted to watching Colin Edwards ride after watching his save (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9TxqSttQHM) and it just is amazing at how he is so quite on the bike in turning...the leg goes out he turns the bike and there is like NO movement of his body..and literally none above the handle bars (head etc)...the only thing that changes in the turn seems to be bending the inner elbow...just don't know... Anyway thats what makes this so fun..trying to figure all this out lol !!!

ok will do Have some track days this weekend at NJMP Will work on it and let u know steve

Just finished two day lvl 3/4 and WS and Mike P was my instructor (awesome) and we worked for two days on this turn...lol///..yes did the lean bike first two day..then this time around also This toe thing though scared the ###### out of me lol...My question was..in that turn (turn 8 WS) why does my toe hit before my knee? Happened when Mike had me move my feet up more...maybe he didnt mean inside foot lol.. anyway...I think i just need to work on my body position in right hand turns...i am pretty sure that is it..just thought that the toe thing might mean something in particular steve

Hey Murf Now to start I am NO WHERE NEAR anything of an expert, so take this with a grain of salt...but have just finished lvl 3,4 so I can relate to your problem. First from the way you describe it, it doesn't sound like it is the bike (happens when you ride other bikes)Having just had the "MANTRA" indoctrinated into me..it sounds like maybe you haven't picked the right lines thru the turns…as Keith says (TotW II page 18) the definition of a correct line is one that lets you do Rule Number One thru the turn.." the line that allows the throttle to be applied, exactly by the rule, is an ideal line." (and of course the rule is constant roll on of the throttle)…so maybe you need to look at your line. Is you entry point right? And importantly is your entry speed correct? If your entry speed is too high for the given amount of turn input and you start to roll on the throttle that might cause a problem..Where do you start to roll on the throttle (as soon as you finish your steering input?)....is your turn input quick and enough for your turn entry speed? (Quickturn)…(this was my problem at turn 2 at Streets..lol..see below) Are you hitting your apex correctly? I was having a ton of trouble with turn two at Streets and was running wide (it was my first time on that track..in fact ran off track wide there…oppps)…and my coach just had me slow way down and get all the above straight...especially hitting the correct turn entry (i was turning in too early) and quickturning…Working on that A LOT made me pretty comfortable with that turn at the end Anyway..may not totally help but something to think about. Steve D

I think I am the only Student that chased Trevor off the track with their bike. It was at CodeRACE in 2004 and on the last lap of the first race I ran wide comming off the skid pad heading for the checkered flag - which happened to be in Trevor's hand as he stood at Start/Finish on the left side of the track. My choice was to try and get back on the pavement or stay off the track and drive for the line. At the time the pavement was a higher by about an inch plus and I was concerned that if I hit it with a very shallow angle that it would wash the front so I decided to put my head back down and go. Look out Trevor - here I come and he dove out of my way at the last second and still managed to get the flag waved properly. ...he still doesn't talk to me. ; ) Kevin Kevin that is too funny!!!!! I wonder if that was videoed...would have loved to see that. I can see Trevor not talking to you. He seems like the kind of guy that might hold a grudge lol. I bet he has a ton of great stories!!! Maybe we should start a "Trevor Stories from Start/Finish" Section of the BB lol

Hey Marc Great post. I know how it feels. For me it was the realization that I really didn't have a clue what I was doing on the track (and street I guess). Just finished lvl 3 and 4 and it gets better and better. Just adds and refines the first two lvls. And I loved how u kind of summed things up "patience, help, and knowledge" It could be the core values for CSS

Kevin Thanks for the reply. First just let me say that I was trying to be sarcastic with the "What did I do wrong?" comment and Trevor..I knew I had done bad and was going to get the BLACK FLAG big time!!! Hey I ran off the track lol...Trevor was great and got me focused on what was important...Tervor and I go way back from my first two day when on my first time out went out the wrong way out at LV and he was running after me screaming and yelling . I get alot of the people at the school just smiling and shaking their head at me (like my instructor when I ran off the track this time. He just smiled and asked me if I had enjoyed my side trip into the Calif desert...and then we spent the rest of the day working on that corner till i owed it ) I know a lot of potential students have real trepidations about doing the school. If they just keep that open mind and positive learning attitude the school does the rest and they WILL be so much better rider at the end and have total fun doing it. As I wrote after my first two day, the way CSS teaches is awesome but ultimately it is all the peeps of the school that make the learning such a great experience. I think that TP-M means Team Pro Motion…and defiantly I am. Plus NESBA and Absolute…I think I have like 100 track days lined up ( u think I have the track bug?? lol) and really can't wait to try all this stuff on my bike Thunderbolt is such an amazing track. I feel really lucky to have that as my home track See all u there!!! Steve D .

Well i will just add my two cents in a rambling kind of way and from a lvl 3,4 perspective. Finished the two day at WS (lvl 3/4)and as with the first 2 day it was just amazing. Hadn't ridden really much at all since the last CSS two day (L:v 1 and 2) in Nov so for two days I totally tortured my coach I had real troubles starting out (always do on new track) and in fact on the second lap of first run ran off the track (didn't go down..again credit the CSS training for that) and had Trevor point the Black Flag at me....I went "what who me...what did i do wrong?...I just ran off the track..what's the big deal" I was kind of shaken, and when I pulled off to talk to him he told me to chill..I said I wasn't really trying to go fast but just trying to keep up cause I felt I was going so slow. He told me my pace was fine and TO FORGET ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE ON THE TRACK. And that is what I did for the next two days. I didn't worry about going fast, passing people or being passed, just about learning and trying to execute all that my coach was telling me. My coach could tell I was struggling I think, and we changed the plan, and went back to some basics the first day, most important was vision ..like 3-point and wide view drill and quick turns...I also would listen to Keith and Dylan give the lectures to the lvl 1/2s when I had free time just trying to absorb it all in. Second day was lvl 4 and we worked a ton on body position and locking in but still worked on vision and quick turns. By the end of the second day I could take on Rossi (not!!!...but I had made great progress). Turn 2 (the one I ran off of first day) was mine it felt really good and with Stu's help with how to do throttle on 5,6,7 had those great too. Overall I made great progress and was totally pumped again (tired but pumped). I had gone from depressed and what the ###### am I doing here at the start of the first day to totally psyched, and I have no doubt in my mind that it was pretty much do to my coach who just did an amazing job of guiding me thru the two days with an amazing positive attitude. Now I have a lot of track practice time coming up to work on all this stuff…and can't wait to do CSS again on my home track on my bike next month (NJMS)!! Learning is so much fun in the right environment!! Steve D

Video is hard to follow...it's pretty hacked up. This is a url for gps map of track don't know whether it helps or not http://www.sundaymorningrides.com/circuits/streetsofwillow/ You can zoom in on turn 8 (top turn). What it doesnt show is that it is sharply banked It is a double apex and I didn't (don't) really understand it i guess. I always took it as one sweeping turn. steve d

Hey Jay Well as u can see from above...my problem was that my toes were on footpeg...so my coach had me move my foot forward to the balls of feet on footpegs, so more foot was sticking out. I guess maybe i have to move that inside foot back to the toes. My basic question still is ..why doesn't the knee hit first?? Seems like my bodyposition still isnt right.

Hey Hotfoot thanks for getting back and that is some good info. I was riding school bikes so not sure about suspension and foot pegs but never seemed to have that problem before. My coach did tell me I was on my toes on footpeg and needed to be more on ball of foot...so more foot was sticking out i guess. Maybe the inside foot needs to go back to the toes. It happens mid turn so maybe the quick turn thing would help and I know I need to work on that alot. My basic question though would be why doesn't the knee hit first??