Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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Yes. That takes a little getting used to.
I had a little trouble breaking the habit of clicking the shifter all the way down when coming to a stop - I remember pulling into the pits and realizing I was in sixth gear!
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I very much prefer GP shift pattern. It feels much more natural to me, to step down on the shifter when leaned forward accelerating and lift up on it when sitting up more for braking. I also find it simpler for blipping the throttle on downshifts, since I am going 'up' with throttle and shifter, instead of up with the throttle and down with the shifter. The biggest advantage is upshifting in a corner though, repositioning my foot to get under the lever while leaned over was much tougher than just clicking it down.
FYI all the coach bikes at CSS are set up for GP shift pattern.
It's a little scary to change, at first, because you dont want to shift the wrong way! I just remember it by imagining leaning forward (and stepping down on the lever) to shift up and leaning 'back' (lifting up on the lever) to shift down. Whenever I have to ride a standard shift pattern I remind myself 'up for up, and down for down'.
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I've got to believe that the difference in the position of the handlebars/clipons makes a big difference here.
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Darn! I could only remember two points:
1. Follows the throttle control rule.
2. Allows for one steering input.
3. ???
See if this hint helps: fill in the blank, "we want to ______________ the corner as much as possible"
Nice!
3. Makes the corner as straight as possible
Yes! Perfect. And what effect does that have on how much lean angle you have to use?
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Darn! I could only remember two points:
1. Follows the throttle control rule.
2. Allows for one steering input.
3. ???
See if this hint helps: fill in the blank, "we want to ______________ the corner as much as possible"
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Thank you Hotfoot and McKeen.
I wonder if you instructors could put up a video instructional series on the forum or you tube for the unfortunates who can't go to school? Some handycam footage will go a long way in helping us visualize some of the things we don't encounter, be it types of turns or situations like wheelspin, due to our lack of access to the track and fast bikes.
I do see the UK branch has a few videos.Will give it a whirl.
Get the Twist of the Wrist II DVD! It's terrific, gives you a chance to see all the techniques explained and demonstrated, it is fantastic. You can buy it on the school website or on amazon.com.
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As i might never attend CSS, can you tell me how to do it? I am intrigued.
You can find some information about the hook turn in A Twist of the Wrist II in Chapter 13, if you want to read about it - but nothing beats coming to the school and being coached on it in person. At the school it is explained and demonstrated on a bike, and each student gets to try it and get help with it. Trying to communicate it here would not be nearly as effective as that.
Level 3 has a lot to do with the rider's interaction with the bike - body position, lock-on, hanging off, transitions, etc. - and those skills translate to greatly improved communication with, and control of, the bike.
This weekend I was coaching some level 3 students at Vegas, which is a bumpy track and has some wonderfully challenging corners, and I was reminded again how GREAT those Level 3 skills really are.
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Hook turn is a Level 3 technique that allows a rider to tighten the line in a corner WITHOUT increasing the lean angle and WITHOUT using the brakes.
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What does the Dunlop technician says about braking, at 1:15?
English isnt my native language so Im having trouble to understand what he says from 1:15 to 1:21... seems important.
He says that some riders like to "trail in" the brakes (meaning hold the brakes on past the tip-in point and into the turn), that some "trail" longer (farther through the turn) which gives a different shape to the tire. He says that as you are trailing the brakes you are forcing the tire in the other direction which makes turning more difficult.
He then says other riders tend to slam the brakes on (which means apply the brakes very hard and fast) and then take them off and then turn. Then he says there are "two different ways"... a slower rider would compress the tire more lightly (I think he means "slower with applying the brakes", not slower in general) but that a "faster rider" (who appplies the brakes quicker with more force) would make the tire compress a lot, and quickly, like a spring - he shows a "bounce" with his hands.
The next person goes on to talk about how compressing the tire more can make it easier to turn and give more grip, and that there is a risk when trail braking because if the tire is heavily compressed when leaned over you can overload it and slide.
It seemed like he was talking about the challenge of designing a tire so that it will work well for BOTH types of riders: those that like to trail the brakes through the turn, and those that like to brake hard, then release the brake as (or before) they turn.
Does that help? If there are words or phrases that are not clear please let me know and I will try to explain more, if I can.
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Hey Hotfoot...you raced this weekend, what did you end up using? Also, post up those results (I know she was on the box a few times
).Best,
Cobie
Well after asking around it appeared that the Dunlop would be too wide to fit on Frankenbike without interfering with the chain - they are a whopping 168mm wide when I need a 160! So I ended up using another brand - their 160 size tire is only 158mm wide and clears nicely. They're the same tires I run on the Moriwaki (except a bigger size) so they were a predictable choice for me, plus I had some contingency money to spend.
The race results were good, especially for the first time out on the new bike. I ran four races, two on the new bike, got a first and a fifth with that one, and two on the Moriwaki, getting a first and a third with that. That puts me nicely in the points lead for the DSB championship, which is great. There is a lot more sorting out to do with the 450 but it ran well and it is SUPER fun to ride. It was COLD, temps ranging from 30s to 50s, and windy, and there were a ton of crashes - I don't think riders were realizing how much the tires were cooling off.
The morning of the races, Steve Brubaker from Dunlop came over to find me in my pit area to talk about the tires - if I understood him correctly (I was a little distracted getting ready for the race), the slicks will be too wide but the 211GPA (a DOT tire) may fit better. It's definitely my preference to run slicks, since they are allowed in my classes, but I'll see about giving the DOTs a try. I wish I could run the Q2s for practice days or just-for-fun track days but they don't come in a 160 - only a 165 - so they will be too wide, too.
In any case, it was nice to meet our resident tire expert in person, I appreciated that he sought me out.
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Make sure you look at the weather and bring a jacket for the morning - it can be chilly during sign up and your first classroom session.
Under armor makes a nice underlayer for leathers.
Pretty much everything else is provided! FYI, at Vegas lunch has to be provided by the track (it's a rule) and its pretty basic, a sandwich box with an apple or chips. The school will have breakfast there for you, though.
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Try jojo@motonation.com I think the "j" was a typo.
You're correct, it was an error - it has been edited and fixed now.
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I sometimes get a little too attached to my reference points - stare at them just a little too long (mostly it's the apex of corners that I look at for too long), which chops up my visual flow and affects my mid-corner speed. It happens when I get a little tired and start losing my wide view - and it indicates that I really don't have ENOUGH reference points to pull my eyes along smoothly.
Oh, and when I get into a left turn a little too fast I always want to tense up my left arm. I rode a different bike yesterday and didn't have that problem - apparently I am not getting a good knee lock on my regular bike!
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Hi,
I have a new bike, it is one of those 450 Super Single conversions. It has Pirelli slicks on it now, 120/70/17 front and 160/55/17 rear. I'd like to put Dunlops on it but I'm not sure which model to use and which are available for a 160 rear.
I LOVE the way the Q2s handle, but I will be racing and need to run tire warmers, and I'm not sure the Q2s do well with warmers, especially if the warmers aren't temperature adjustable - mine get really hot.
I prefer a more rounded profile, intead of a V shape, and I don't particularly like really stiff carcass tires. (See why I like the Q2 so much?) The bike is relatively low horsepower - 40 or so, I think.
Which Dunlop would be the best to suit my preferences? I am in the US, will be racing it with WERA, and my classes do allow slicks. First race will be this weekend at Vegas and the weather is looking cool, 40-55 F.
Thanks in advance for the advice!
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OK, I have a new 'How CSS training saved my bacon' story. On Sunday I did an open track day - on a new, unfamiliar, poorly set up bike with a REALLY nice paint job. I definitely did not want to crash this bike.
I had just turned the bike into a tight slow corner, and a rider in front of me added throttle and lean angle exiting the corner and crashed - right in my path. His bike was spinning around mid track and I couldn't tell where it was going to end up, and the rider was sliding towards the outside edge of the track; it seemed too risky to go between them and the gap to the outside was closing as the rider slid. Without CSS training I would have just ridden off the outside into the dirt - all my instincts made me want to keep watching the moving rider, the thing I was afraid of hitting. It took a strong conscious effort to drag my eyes away to find a path to the inside that missed both sliding rider and spinning bike and kept me on the track.
Thank you CSS; going off track could very likely have resulted in a crash, but instead I was able to get my eyes up (recognize and overcome the target-fixation SR) and get around the obstacle cleanly.
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OK, got it, that all makes sense. Let's tackle these one at a time.
"with #2, I never had enough throttle control fineness to give handlebars inputs while crack open the throttle and keep it steady till apex."
Agreed, it would take a lot of finesse and concentration to do this. One way to get a similar result with less effort is to increase the idle speed of your bike so the RPMs don't fall off so far when you let off the throttle. You could try increasing it 500-1,000 rpm and see if it helps the bike feels a bit more stable at tip-in. Be cautious of entry speed in your first few turns after adjusting it, because your bike is likely slow down a little less than before.
"when doing #3, I'm worrie about overloading front tire and wash out."
Cornering forces plus braking forces do put a lot of load on the front tire, and it does take careful brake control to manage this technique. Again, this can cost a lot of your attention which may be better spent on other things - like looking ahead at reference points! Trail braking is a more advanced technique, does have some additional risk of overloading the front, and should probably used judiciously - if you do a forum search you can find plenty of discussions about when and where it might make sense to do it.
"my worrie with #1 is: when I let go the brakes for tip in, it automatically extends the forks which unloads the tire and you lose traction."
If the forks extend between when you release the brakes and when you turn in, it makes the bike feel unstable, which is unnerving for sure. Here are a couple of things you can do to handle this:
1) Have a suspension person take a look at your bike, your front rebound may be too quick (the rebound damping set too soft) so it springs back too sharply after braking. The compression (or preload) could also be too soft causing the front end to dive excessively under braking.
2) The ideal is to be tapering off the brakes as you approach your turn point, ideally releasing the brake right when you turn in. The cornering force compresses your front end, so when the timing is right the front end load transfers from braking load to cornering load so it is never unloaded. If, however, you brake hard, release the brake abruptly, coast for bit, THEN turn in, you get the forks compressing, extending, and compressing again. If your front suspension is really soft, this can be dramatic and a little disconcerting!
A good way to accomplish your braking is to apply the brakes smoothly (not a stab) at the beginning of your braking zone, get the bulk of the braking done at the beginning, then taper off the braking as you approach your turn point, releasing it just as you turn the bike. That way there is never a chance for the front to pop up sharply (because you are tapering off your braking), even if your conering force is much lower than your braking force (which would be the case if you were to brake very hard but take the corner at a tentative pace). As the pace comes up, the cornering force is greater, so you dont' have to taper the brakes off quite so gradually to keep the front down through the corner.
I'm not sure what you have or haven't done with your suspension but it is VERY common for the front to be too soft on a street bike, so do have someone look at your suspension settings. When set up right, not only will the bike feel more planted and stable, it will be easier to turn the bike when the front stays partially compressed through your whole braking/turning action.
Does that help?
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Hi there.
This is my first post but I've been watching this forum for a long time.
Well, I'm also facing this "throttle before slow turns crysis", and I really need your help.
So, I'm from Brazil and already did the Alex Barros Riding School (former brazilian MotoGP racer, I bet you remember him) and, after 7 trackdays, I still didnt decided how to proceed before slow turns.
When I attack fast corners, its all pretty clear for me: slightly roll off the throttle and keep it steady while leaning/counter steering (same technique for downhill corners and for the second leg of an Esse), but, for slow corners, man, what a doubt.
So, I'll tell you the approachs I've been trying, but still didnt felt confortable with neither.
1) Alex Barros: roll off while braking - till you reach zero throttle - let go your brakes, tip in, follow TCR1. Motovudu also states the same.
2) Dave Moss: same as Barros's teaches, but before you tip in, crack open the throttle, like a hair open, keep it steady till apex, and then follow TCR1.
3) Nick Ienatsch: roll off while braking, tip in with zero throttle & trailing the brakes till apex; then, follow TCR1.
So, what do you guys use as an effective technique?
I already try all above, but Im not really confident with none of them.
This is killing me... I lose focus thinking about what technique should I use at each slow corner.
I need to decide previously which one of them, so its one less thing to think about on my riding and have more fun.
Thanks.
CSS focuses primarily on number 1, although trail braking (#3) is used in certain types of corners or racing situations (generally tight corners after a straight that have a fast entrance and slow exit, or as a passing move).
What, specifically, is the doubt in your mind when approaching those slow corners? What are you worried will happen when you apply that first technique?
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I see lots of riders turning in early - which is often followed by tense arms, poor throttle control then running wide which requires a steering correction, and in aggressive riders that can mean adding throttle and lean angle simultaneously at the end of the corners.
Something I see a lot on the freeway is riding duck-footed (toes hanging down close to the ground) which often indicates inexperience.
My husband chimed in on this one to say he sees a lot of riders hanging on too tight - shaking out stiff hands at stop lights.
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In this video, it is mentioned that they want to have more Indian racers in worldwide racing events. Dylan says that it's a needle in a haystack type thing, that they need to see tons of riders to find the ones that the potential to succed in racing.
So my question is: How do you know? In looking at the thousands of riders that come through the schools, how do you identify the ones with that potential? What do you look for - someone that shows up already fast? Someone who makes tons of improvement in one day? Jaw grinding determination? Unlimited budget and plenty of free time?
If you do find someone that seems to have something special, do you do anything about that, or just wait to see if they chase it and succeed?
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Time really... and a bit of mental focus to stay on task.
2 things, I ride a 250 (no damper) quite a bit and she likes to chatter a lot while cornering hard. Next is my stock R6, again no damper. It used to be every time the front would come up (most likely my fault for being tight on the bars), I would get head shake and have a pucker moment. Now when the bike just shimmies a little bit, I don't fight it. In fact, I don't do anything correct it. I just keep doing what I am supposed to be doing with the throttle, keep loose and calm. At this point I just mostly ignore it until it's "really" a problem.
Cool that you can calmly ride through it... but, what is causing the chatter? Is it something that can be eliminated with a different tire or suspension changes? When does it chatter, on the entrances or exits? On the brakes or on the gas?
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Braking deep and head shake. Got over both slowly but surely.
What got you over the concern about the head shake?
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I never did ride anything older than a 1985 or so bike - but I have low tech bikes and high tech bikes, and the high tech bikes make me WANT to ride fast! There is a real invitation to eat up corners and twist the throttle harder. Like riding a thoroughbred instead of a plow horse - you can feel that it wants to RUN, not just haul groceries.
I think the newer bikes invite us to ride harder, push the limits more, head to the racetrack!
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I was thinking as I was driving on the freeway about how many things used to scare me, about riding motorcycles, before I came to the Superbike School.
For example, the rain grooves on the freeway make the bike feel weird and used to make me nervous. One of the drills at the school completely eliminated that fear.
So I thought I'd ask - what are some things that YOU were afraid of, about riding, and aren't anymore?
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Here's a question. This is a great chance to get your bike on a track and see what it can really do. If you start pushing your own limits, and your bike's, far beyond what you have ever done before, will you begin to worry about whether your tires have optimal grip? Or as much grip as the guy in front of you, or your coach has, on his/her bike? Will that become a distraction?
5 years old sounds borderline to me - I didn't find exact guidelines but in researching it a bit, there seems to be a lot of recommendations that any motorcycle tire that is six years old or older should be changed, and more like 3-4 years for track riding; since tires tend to dry out and get less pliable with age, it sounds like a 5 year old tire might be fine for street riding but not have the grip for spiriting cornering that a new tire would have.
Our tire expert will have better info, of course!
Regarding reserving a bike - you do want to make that decision in advance (ASAP, really); there are a limited number of spaces available for students on rented bikes, the school needs to know ahead of time.
Usa Broadcasts Of 2013 Races
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
I did, it worked great, but the link to it ONLY showed up during the broadcast. I had looked ahead of time to see how to do it and it wasn't there. When the race was actually on, there was a huge logo and link on the site so it was easy to find.
The video quality of the streaming was great!