Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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Wow,
What happened! Hotfoot is a she not a he! Domina is correcting my spelling! JayBird just chimes in anytime he likes and now Kevin drops the "R" word! Holy ######! This is unacceptable people! I'm going to bed.
Gee, hate to nitpick, but I think you spelled ##### wrong, too.
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Where have you been Hotfoot? You are going to Laguna Seca and you are just finding this thread!
Domina, should we let him in?
And yes correct the damn spelling...you have made me paranoid about it now. Just that much more pressure to deal with...I might have to assign Hotfoot a count down day.
Noooo... don't hang that awesome responsibility on me, clearly I have not been keeping up with things on the forum adequately, so best not to trust me with the countdown (is this the agreed-upon spelling?) just yet. Oh, and I'm a "her", not a "him", just so ya know. And yes, I am the one that Cobie got with the kill-switch trick - he pulled up really close so I thought he had something really important to tell me... then he killed my engine and zipped away.
Where will you guys be coming from? What Level will you be riding? Have you ridden Laguna before, and did you make sure your bike is quiet enough?
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Yes, those are my words.
FOURTEEN DAYS
Would you like me to correct the spelling?
I just discovered this crazy thread, and I want to let you lunatics know I'll be there, too. In fourteen days. Look forward to meeting you.
I WAS trying to work, now I have this countdown going on in my head!!! I guess I better go home and start stuffing steel wool into my aftermarket exhaust pipe, Laguna is COMING UP SOON!!
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I have been grappling with that very question as of late! Trying to solve the mystery of left hand turns with a rational thought process and then improve the situation but it is dificult.
This article is well thought out and covers a lot of ground I hope to be able to work on it at the next school. will it or is it already part of the curriculum?
Has this question been answered?
Yes, it's covered, right at the start of Level 1 (steering drill) and probably again in Level 3 when working on body position.
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This is a bit dark, but since you brought it up, I have been told that the word "squid" came from an emergency room term for the riders you mention above, when they end up in the hospital - short for "squished kid". So, wear your expensive protective gear, and keep it on the track when you can.
What do they call squished old guys, squog, or Geri-squish? Is this totally inappropriate, and I should delete myself?
"Slow Learners"
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What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go?
This seems to change often, for me, as I learn more or making changes in my bike or my riding. Lately I have started scraping a peg now and again, which makes me think I am at my lean angle and/or speed limit for that turn - so I try to hang off more, but hit a different limit on being able to lock on properly, without putting pressure on the bars. Or I adjust my suspension to be stiffer - then hit the limit of what I can manage on a different part of the track with the suspension set that way.
I think, now, that one thing that limits me is figuring out how to measure the respective gain or loss as I make changes in the bike or my riding - ie, if I slow down the entry to this corner, do I get a better drive, and does that REALLY produce a better result? I look foward to CodeRACE to break this down and measure specific results with specific changes, but I also would love to hear suggestions in this area.
Perhaps (if you don't already own one) you're at the level where you may consider getting a laptimer. Some of the fancy GPS units allow you to break down the track into sections. This way you have solid numbers as to gains vs losses.
Actually, I did that recently, haven't used it too much yet but I think it will help a lot, I got the Starlane GPS.
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Splendid, thanks for the heads up Ace!
Hey Fiji,
Welcome to the forum. Just to make sure, out here on the West Coast, do you know what Squid means?
Likely you do, but just in case:
"Squid" was a term, no idea who first used it, that was a label for punks on RD-350's, riding with a tank top or no shirt, no helmet, shorts, flip flops, and wheelieing from stop light to stop light (or riding nuts in the turns).
So someone being a "squid" or doing something "squidly" is doing something and using questionable judgement, shall we say. Not saying that we have never done anything squidly, but we try and keep it in check, and at the track for the most part
Glad you are here, keep on posting
Best,
Cobie
This is a bit dark, but since you brought it up, I have been told that the word "squid" came from an emergency room term for the riders you mention above, when they end up in the hospital - short for "squished kid". So, wear your expensive protective gear, and keep it on the track when you can.
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How good do you rate your own sense of traction, and for this thread, let's look at corerning traction (as opposed to just acceleration or stopping traction).
Can you tell where you are with the traction in different situations? Do you get nervous, or feel pretty confident with your sense of this?
Good artilce on Bands of Traction by KC in his corner, if you'd like to check that out.
C
I'm definitely nervous on this point; my mid corner traction usually feels great, but at turn-in, it always seems to me like the front tire is either OK, or suddenly gone, with nothing in between. I have had a few front tire slips (but no crashes) on cold tires or over rough pavement and they feel abrupt and sudden with no warning. Is that normal? Someone mentioned sliding the front, and to me this seems nearly impossible, does that indicate a problem with my technique or bike setup?
For the rear tire when I drive hard out of a turn, still leaned over some, I sometimes feel the tire squirm around. Is that the step before a smooth controlled slide (have never done one of those on fresh tires) or a warning that I am flirting with a high side? Currently I take it as a warning and don't try to push beyond. I have only felt a smooth, controlled spin of the rear tire on really worn out tires, that was fun and pretty easy to control, but it progressed very smoothly and did not go through that squirm stage.
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What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go?
This seems to change often, for me, as I learn more or making changes in my bike or my riding. Lately I have started scraping a peg now and again, which makes me think I am at my lean angle and/or speed limit for that turn - so I try to hang off more, but hit a different limit on being able to lock on properly, without putting pressure on the bars. Or I adjust my suspension to be stiffer - then hit the limit of what I can manage on a different part of the track with the suspension set that way.
I think, now, that one thing that limits me is figuring out how to measure the respective gain or loss as I make changes in the bike or my riding - ie, if I slow down the entry to this corner, do I get a better drive, and does that REALLY produce a better result? I look foward to CodeRACE to break this down and measure specific results with specific changes, but I also would love to hear suggestions in this area.
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Great shots! I am looking at the one of Steve - it doesn't even look like his back tire is touching the ground...? Is that an illusion? Or is it hydroplaning?
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Wow, thanks for posting those, clearly a picture is worth a thousand words.
You sure have made me appreciate living in California!!!!
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Here's one just released by Motion Pro, retails for $154.99 US
Nice...and better priced too. Too bad it isn't universal, then I could take it bike-bike as I figured I've got about 1-2 years left on this one before I get the itch for something newer.
Hey Hotfoot, want to be the guinea pig?
I'm willing to try it, but not for a few months, I don't want to make another change like that until I am sure I have my engine issues sorted out, AND get to RIDE the darn thing a few times. If my wrist starts getting sore again, that will move it up on my priority list. I AM really pleased to see the link, though, it really does look like a nice product. Thanks for the post, sleepr!
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I have a 2008 ZX6R with Shogun no-cut frame sliders. I need a replacement puck for one side (didn't crash... it fell off) and I can't find one, any idea where to get one? Or know of another brand that would be compatible? Or does anyone have contact info for Shogun? I did a web search but couldn't find the correct manufacturer site. I don't really want to buy a whole new kit, if I can avoid it.
(Hey Cobie, if we had an "equipment" area, I would have posted this question there.
)Hey Hotfoot,
Where do you think the "equipment" area should be? And where did you get the Shogun stuff before?
C
I ordered the Shogun stuff online, I think kneedraggers.com, but none of those retailers appear to sell replacement pucks, they have to come from Shogun; I guess I'll have to try emailing some retailers to get Shogun contact info.
Acutally it might be simplest to just add 'equipment' as part of set-up and handling. I looked at the list of topics and about half of them seem to be about equipment anyway. Or, maybe you want to split it up into multiple topics, like Tires, Suspension, Exhaust, Bodywork, Fuel, etc. in which case you may want a whole new section called Equipment and Setup with sub topics. I think the former idea would make it easier for regular users to spot new posts and answer them, but the second way might make it easier for new members to find older posts when they are looking for specific info, without having to look through pages of info about a wide array of topics.
Since we're discussing this, I think you could combine Racing and Racing Circuits, and maybe even combine School Questions with Successes/Photos, those areas seem to get a lot fewer new topics than the others.
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If I keep my current ride, I may look into a throttle for the same reason as you HOTFOOT. I'd heard about people making them themselves. Doesn't seem that difficult to change the cam size. Have you looked into that option?
I've seen some forum posts with instructions to make one from PVC. It doesn't look that difficult to do, but I don't quite have the nerve to try it; my hope was that I could buy a kit, have a mechanic install it correctly, and not have to worry about the reliability.
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If you could improve one aspect your riding, what do you think would make the biggest difference?
Try to be specific, “if I could be smoother, faster etc”… is a real easy answer but it doesn’t really say much. What one thing would take your riding to the next level?
A bigger paycheck! So I could do endless track time and make dozens of cool modifications to my bike!
OK, you probably want a better answer than that... how about absolute certainty that my entry speed was right for each turn, and knowing exactly where to brake / roll off point to accomplish that. Better yet to be able to do it without specific reference points so I could do it on a new track or new road.
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YoYoDyne
"All CNC machined in aluminum, the new push-pull throttle kit is a required accessory for racers that want only the best for their motorcycle. Thanks to the ability to change the cams inside that modify the speed of the push-pull throttle, everybody can find the right combination of speed and control. The new design with bigger rotors can be installed on each bike with any problems with the 2 cables that are include in the kit that fit. The push-pull throttle kit can be installed with Run/Stop-Start switch for bikes that originally come with this control integrated in the throttle housing."
Thanks for the info, bet Hotfoot would have liked to know that sooner, had nothing but problems with the one purchased, finally took it off.
C
Thanks for posting this, I appreciate the recommendation, however unfortunately the Yoyodyne IS the one I had, and I had trouble with it. One problem was that the set screws fell out so the throttle body was slipping, and the set screws were VERY tiny and a weird size. Will actually MADE a tool to put them back in for me. Then it was still not operating smoothly and we found a place where it was rubbing and hanging up, and then ultimately took it off, and at that point found that one of the pieces of hardware in the cable had snapped in half. So, I'm not saying they don't work - they seem very popular, so they probably do, but it didn't go well for me. FYI, the reason I wanted a 1/4 turn throttle was to reduce the amount I have to turn to full open, my wrist was getting sore.
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I have a 2008 ZX6R with Shogun no-cut frame sliders. I need a replacement puck for one side (didn't crash... it fell off) and I can't find one, any idea where to get one? Or know of another brand that would be compatible? Or does anyone have contact info for Shogun? I did a web search but couldn't find the correct manufacturer site. I don't really want to buy a whole new kit, if I can avoid it.
(Hey Cobie, if we had an "equipment" area, I would have posted this question there.
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I agree that a separate equipment section would be nice, and a pinned topic that lists what the school uses for equipment (bike stuff and riding gear), and info on bike mods, bike setup, tires and tire pressures, for the school bikes and the coach bikes. And some notes about what works well for you and why. That stuff is interesting because you guys put on so many miles in so many different types of conditions, with so many different people, that you get a terrific perspective on what works or doesn't.
Just one request, I'd prefer NOT to have a section where everyone gets to list or show off all the mods on their bikes, there is too much of that on other forums already - I think folks on this forum are here to ride their bikes, not decorate them.
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I love this article, it completely captures the difference between a wonderful ride and a tedious, frightening, or disappointing ride.
For me, the best ride, the perfect ride, is when I can find that joyous excitement, the special thrill of feeling the bike skimming over the pavement, and seeing the track flowing swiftly by. There is a disassociation from concerns about "how I'm riding" or who is behind me or what I should change, it's all sensation and it seems like the controlling of the bike becomes nearly effortless.
For me, a really terrific fast turn feels like sledding down a steep snowbank, or swinging too high on the swingset; I've committed to the turn and now I'm just enjoying the ride, and seeing how fast I can go! There's a certain death-defying feeling to it, which makes it thrilling; and a certain perfection, when it all comes together exactly right.
When I can capture that feeling, I stop being a bundle of worries, and thoughts, and wasted motions, and start really having a ride.
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I like the 250 ninja idea, it looks like an affordable way to get into racing and is pretty much hasstle free to the point you can concentrate on learning the tracks and working on your riding style without having to worry about the bike. Anyone want to organise a forum race weekend, I'd fly out to Cal for that,
Fantastic idea!!! I don't particularly want to to have to organize it, but you can definitely count me in to participate, and my husband would for sure do it, too. Think you could handle getting your ass kicked on the racetrack by a girl?
To do it on the Ninja's with WSMC you'd need a race license (which has a min lap time requirement, it's possible to show up then not be able to race if you can't get there), plus Rich only has about 8 Ninjas, we'd have to reserve WAY in advance. But, I LOVE the idea of a forum race day (friendly, relatively low key, and safe), so I have a couple of other ideas - there's also a group out here that rents NSR50's (50cc race-prepped 5 speed mini sportbikes), to ride on a go-kart track. It's a different experience, since they are LITTLE bikes and don't go very fast, but it would probably be a lot easier to organize a private event with no race licenses required. It's still pretty darn competitive and fun, but not nearly the adrenaline of the big track, big bikes.
Or, here's another option - how about CodeRACE in October? Let CSS do the organizing, all we have to do is show up and chase each other around! Little more expensive, but TONS of track time, two real races, and we'd all learn something too.
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Dani and Nicky both have very different riding styles, Dani breaks the rear loose at the apex and picks the bike up at the same time as he rolls on the throttle squaring the last part of the turn and giving him maximum drive at the corner exit, (as per the pickup drill)! If Dani and Nicky were to take a corner at the same lean angle they would not be at the same corner speed, Dani's lighter weight would mean he would have to lean further to match Nicky's speed!
I dont know what Capirossi would say but I think you will find that all of the top level racers in the world are able to hit the same part of the track lap after lap using good RPs though I cant see where that is relevant to the topic we are discussing!
I can see your point, as my bringing up Capirossi does seem off topic. Perhaps I could have said it this way:
1- Observation <> (does not equal) conclusive
2- There's a problem with the logic stated above and that problem comes in when we use words that hint at "always".
Mathematically speaking, it's been stated that:
Rider at x lean angle, y speed = z turn radius
Rider at x lean angle, y+q speed = z+ [q (factor)] turn radius
Although this may be correct in some circumstances, it is not consistent across the board.
In other words, there are times:
Rider at x lean angle at y+q speed <> z+ [q (factor)] turn radius
And poor technique is not the ONLY reason to account for this.
Here's a personal experience example (we're waaaaaay off topic here, but whattheheck, right?)
A couple of years ago at ViR Patriot during my 5th session of the day, I'd gotten happy with my consistency. I could hit the TP, apex, exit nearly blind in a particular section; I was on it! (or so I thought) I was already at max lean for my given BP as I had consistent knee pressure on the tarmac. I changed NOTHING else during that session, except going in faster and faster and getting on the gas harder and harder, yet my turn radius didn't yet change until I was ready for it to. Why not? I was too slow and nowhere near the edge of performance. I was in the top of my riding group, but there were groups that were much faster. Once I loosened up with the new speed and allowed the bike to get closer to the rumble strip on exit did my turn radius change. Then, I could go even faster.
Nevertheless, I had accepted the answer as posted by HOTFOOT from Will (which coincidentally was hinted at earlier:
Simple question, but with some not-so-simple considerations. …However, there is another input to the steering than rider input and tire input, and it caused by steering trail. Suppose you had a bike on its centerstand (racers can ask tourers what that is), resting lightly on its front wheel. With its steering centered, push on the left side of the bike tank. You'll see the steering shift right, because the front tire contact patch is behind the point where the steering axis meets the pavement. I think that, as speed increases in a turn, the trail-induced forces tend to steer away from the direction of turn, which would act to increase the lean angle. Therefore, I suspect that a bike with enough trail might actually lean more into a turn, and actually decrease the turn radius, as speed increases. On the other hand, a bike with an intermediate amount of trail might actually tend to increase lean angle exactly enough to maintain a constant radius turn as speed increased-- with zero rider input to steering!
The latter condition sounds like nirvana-- you could fool around all you want with the throttle (within the traction limit), and not affect your line through a turn at all! (But, being a ######, Nature probably exacts some nasty other form of penalty for such a virtue.)…...
Couple of points here. First of all, the quote above is not the one I posted from Will. It is a bit similar, but it ain't de same, it was posted by, and written by, someone else. I thought Will's answer was easier to understand.
Second - what Will DID say was that trail will cause the front wheel to turn to a stabilizing point. That was making the LARGE assumption that the rider allows it to do so. I couldn't quite tell from your post if you were loose enough on the bars to allow that to happen. Also at risk of complicating the discussion, I think the fact that you were dragging a knee changes things like the effective lean angle (if you taking a little downforce on your knee) and creates a little drag on that side. Once you introduce the concept of a highly mobile rider the math gets so much more complicated that my brain freezes.
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Question - when you are riding a new track, how do you choose your turn points, on your first few laps around? Do you have a specific technique, or do you just wing it and see how it turns out? Do you try to spot the apex first, and if you can't see the whole turn, how do you choose it? Do you always go out wide, so you can see farther into the turn? My question applies to unfamiliar roads, too, but for the sake of discussion let's assume that the goal is speed and traction is good, and not consider other factors that would come up in street riding. Do you have a specific set of ideas about how to approach certain types of turns on your FIRST time through?
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I feel like I'm asking a stupid question, but how does one get into racing? I know there's the obvious answer "be really fast and have lots of money", but for the rest of us, is there some usual path? At this point I like doing track days but at some point I'd like to do more to challenge myself. Here's some of my million questions- how good do you have to be? how do you know when you're ready? can I do it with my street bike or do I have to have something dedicated? does this have to be expensive? is there some entry level class? I've been thinking about it since a remark from last year someone made to me:Aside from some top notch coaching, my guess is that it might be a little competition. Perhaps it's time to skip the track day and go race.
So, for those who have raced, how did it begin for you?
Well, I just started with it, so I'll give you my thoughts. Here is the obvious answer - go to CodeRACE. That requires less bike prep, or you can even use a school bike. It's also safer and a lot less intimidating, less people on the track and a well controlled environment. For me, I was ready for CodeRACE when I was brave enough to go, and willing to test myself against others. I was riding Level 2 (an intermediate level) at track days, about in the middle of the pack. CodeRACE made me a lot faster.
The next step was to get my novice race license, that requires attendance to a Novice Racer School, but at my local organization CodeRACE is accepted for that, so I didn't have to do the Novice school.
Here's a cool option, if you are out on the west coast: www.racebikerental.com, this guy rents Ninja 250s, already race prepped, so you can try a race without having to do all the safety prep on your own bike.
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Hotfoot-
Do you think that what's now posted would have helped you during your race weekend? Why or why not?
Yes. I had gotten the answer about trail from Will last week, and it DID help me this weekend, at the track, to recognize that the lean angle only changes if you make it change. I thought the bike would stand up on its own when you roll on, but it doesn’t, and that info helped me to hold the arc a little tighter in some turns, where previously I had been picking the bike up a little early with a steering input. It also helped me stand it up sooner (and more deliberately) in others, so I could get on the gas harder earlier. So yes, any bit of data helps, and anytime my understanding improves, it helps. The part that Keith posted was new to me today, but the point he makes that some riders are afraid of the fact that the arc widens when you roll on would probably have helped me too, as I am a bit afraid of that – if it is a high speed turn and the best line runs out to the edge of the track, I am overly careful to leave a wide margin for error. Next time I will pay more attention to predicting EXACTLY where the bike will want to go, which should give me more room to roll on harder, and therefore have better exit speed.
When Keith talks, I listen. Every single time. It's a strategy that is working well for me so far.
I WAS trying to work, now I have this countdown going on in my head!!! 
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Toes And Turn 8
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
That happens to me, too, and pretty much only in that turn. The simplest thing to do is just make sure you have your foot tucked up on the peg, with either the ball of your foot, or better yet your toes, on the peg, versus putting the middle of your foot on the peg and leaving your toes hanging out in space. Or, you could work on your quick turn so you snap it over fast and early, that way you have less lean angle in the middle of the turn. Or you could raise your footpegs a little, if you have adjustable ones. Or you could stiffen your suspension a bit (rear compression) so the bike doesn't sink so much at that bump at the beginning of the turn.
Where in the turn does it happen? If it happens right at the beginning, at or before the first apex, you probably have to look at foot position or bike setup, but if it happens in the middle of the turn try the quick turn idea. For me, it usually happens in the middle when I am trying to go fast but don't snap it over fast enough at the turn point.
For a lot of people it must happen at the dip at the first apex, because there are a LOT of scrape marks there! I think that is a suspension issue, it seems to happen to the SV650s a lot and I hear they are a bit soft in rear compression.