Hotfoot
-
Posts
1,998 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
180
Posts posted by Hotfoot
-
-
Hey Jayson, I don't think the advice you got at summit point was all that bad. If you are leaving a ton of room on the exit then you probably can go faster, but it doesn't necessarily mean you can go IN faster.
One point about the exit. I think it is a good idea to try within reason to hold the bike tight on the exit of a corner. If you have a buffer coming off the corner then you know you might be able to use some of that up and go faster. It's how you decide to use your buffer that is important.
If you intentionally run the bike to the outside edge of the track coming off a corner, you don't really have a good idea of how much you have left. Know what I mean?
If you can consistently hold the bike a little tight coming off the corner you might try using that buffer up by standing the bike sooner and getting on the gas harder. Then you can use up some of that buffer and gain some exit speed.
Back to the original point of your post...
I think it is hard to judge your entry speed based on how you exit the corner. I think you're better off gaging it using your turn point and apex.
Where you able to put the bike where you wanted it to be at the apex?
Did you turn exactly where you wanted to?
Were you able to relax just after turn in? Or were you tense?
Were you able to end your braking where you intended? Or did you get hung up on the brakes going in?
How soon did you get back on the gas?
How quick did you turn the bike?
These are just a few things that you can use to judge your entry speed after the fact. I'm sure we could think of many more.
The point is if you turned the bike where you wanted, turned it quick, got your braking done where you wanted, got back in the gas right away and nailed your apex then chances are your entry speed was "correct".
If you turn the bike slow because you were scared, or weren't able to relax right away, or blew your apex, or were afraid to get back on the gas until the corner was done, or got hung up on the brakes then you might have over cooked it a bit.
If you did everything right but felt like you could have gone faster then you probably could have.
Gains in entry speed come very slowly for most and you have to cut yourself a little slack. You're not going to be able to add 10mph going into most corners without giving yourself a coronary. You have to be satisfied with small gains over time and keep working at it.
I work on my entry speed all the time and I'm never satisfied. However, there have been times when I felt like I was riding really well and that feeling had a lot to do with my confidence going into the corner.
I think entry speed is one of the toughest things for any rider to improve. My best advice is ... baby steps. Don't bite off more then you can chew, you will only set yourself back. Work your speed up slowly, like .01 mph increments.
What a fantastic post! I think I'm going to print this out and take it with me to track days. It is really, really easy to get caught up in trying to push yourself to improve entry speed and it sure can be a frustrating experience, and your post clarifies that extremely well. Recently a riding buddy of mine got really focused on entry and although he didn't realize it, he slowed WAY, WAY down. He thought he was really pushing himself, and he WAS going into the corners faster than me but suddenly I was blowing him away on laptimes, because he was losing so much on his midcorner and exit. It was a great learning experience for me to watch it happen to HIM, because when it happens to ME I am so aggravated that I can't learn a damn thing.
Being able to observe it dispassionately was very enlightening! -
I keep thinking about how hard it is to hold up a bike when stopped if it gets leaned over too far, or how hard it is to pick up after a fall - it takes everything bit of muscle I've got plus a bit of technique to lift up a sportbike, and I can't do it while straddling the bike. So if a bike truly loses traction in a turn enough to cause a fall, that's what the rider would be faced with, 400 pounds of bike, and holding that up with their knee in an awkward position with no leverage? I'm still very skeptical, but maybe it's just something one has to experience to believe. Why couldn't it just be a temporary loss of traction, due to some surface or tire irregularity, and the traction comes back later because the surface or tire improves, or due to a throttle change, but the rider thinks they've done it with their knee? For example in the video, the detergent is there, then it's not, and the bike recovers, what's so unusual about that?
H,
It isn't the full 400+ lbs of weight that one has to hold. We are talking the times a rider has saved it, when it has just gone over the edge of traction, but the tires are still in contact with the ground. How much does one have to "hold" a correctly set up bike, when it is in the turn, and the bike is moving? AND let's not forget no lean angle change (otherwise the rider would have some pressure on the bars).
Any of the physics guys up here have a an idea of how to calculate this?
CF
I don't know how to calculate it, but couldn't you put a sensor on the slide bike, and see how much pressure is being put on the outrigger wheel when it touches down? That outrigger wheel saves slides, right? (or you could measure the amount the outrigger shock travels, and calculate it from that.) Seems like the same principle, it just adds a little upward force on the bike to stop it from leaning over any farther, and that combined with good throttle control can save the slide, right? The outrigger wheel seems a reasonable approximation to a knee slider, since knee sliders do slide easily and I'm sure that little wheel has significant drag, probably would be pretty close to the same amount of friction.
Or, how about this, can you gutsy fellas experiment by pushing down a tad with your knee while dragging it and see if it changes your lean angle? It sure seems to me like it would NOT take much pressure to change the lean angle, standing the bike up a little and thereby increasing traction. I'm not reliable enough at dragging my knee to try this myself, although I think I've experienced it a few times when my knee touched down unexpectedly, and a little too hard, bouncing the bike up a little.
-
We are getting ready for the transition over to BMW. Lots of stuff has to change, with the trailers getting wrapped with the new sponsor (many trailers are done in vinyl these days) as one large project.
We are scheduled to get the new bikes in January, actually picking them up and brining them back from the dealer intro in Florida.
All new coach leathers is another project, we are in process on that right now.
The web page has been updated, but we need some more photos, that will happen soon
.From the coaching side, there are the normal comings ang goings there, a coach's schedule will change, he can't do as many schools as the year before, or maybe he can do more, we juggle that every season. One nice thing is looks as if we will have a good amount of foriegn coaches into the school this year, that is the way it looks now, see how it turns up.
More soon.
Best,
Cobie
OK, I'm curious.... how come your avatar photo is in black and white now? You are starting to look a little... out of date!
-
my 2cents
being crossed up doesnt limit riders from turning their head to the direction of the turn. the reason to pull your head and upper body to the inside it to give the bike more clearance/traction at a certain speed compared to sitting crossed up. makes corner exits mor manageable and faster.
the only difference i see from elias and lorenzo is that elias likes to hang his ass way out there. hes got both his cheeks off the seat while lorenzo is barely hanging off. both of their spines are to the inside of the bike and is parallel to the bike. besides bayliss and hodgson, vermulen (sp?), i havent seen anyone else in motogp that is crossed up on the bike except when not at pace.
Do you find it easy to look over your shoulder, when it's facing the wrong direction, i.e. into towards the bike, and away from where you're actually going. Seems pretty sub optimal to me. There are other reasons why these riders do this, but I'm not going to go into it on here. You'll find all that out if you do level 2 and get on the lean bike, and do level 3 physical drills.
Bullet
I'm a bit curious about the other reasons, would you mind going into that a bit more? I'm guessing that fear of leaning can make someone want to keep head or body more 'on top of' the bike, and also that hanging your butt off too far can make you get crossed up, any other reasons? I am fighting a tendency to stiffen up my left shoulder and push it forward on left hand turns, and I can't figure out what's causing it. I'm not afraid of leaning it, and I don't hang off very far - in fact I still stiffen that shoulder even when I don't hang my butt off at all. My position is OK approaching the turn, and stays OK when I get into a hang off position, but at the moment I turn the bike, I throw my shoulder forward. It's worse on downhill turns. I am right-handed, and do a lot of my steering, even on left turns, with my right hand, especially at slow speeds. When I sit on a bike on a stand, my position looks fine, and it looks OK on the lean bike too, but when a coach follows me on track they see me make a weird change in position right at the turn-in - sometimes it looks like a late look-in because my shoulder comes forward relative to my head, which sort of looks like I turned my head. Anything you can do to help would be MUCH appreciated!!
-
Any other forum members attending or cornerworking?
I'll be there! Looking forward to it. I haven't looked at the weather yet, have you?
-
I have stayed out of this Frey but at this point I feel compelled to post.
I got a nickname when I fresh out boot camp that I earned with my ability to change my mode of operation in the blink of eye to respond to a situation. Many already know this but it is my screen name Balistic. 0 to 10 on the attitude scale with nothing between, it has nothing to do with any other kind of speed.
As for Cobie's, it would be a great injustice to all the elder staff old enough to have watched any of the Mr. Magoo cartoons growing up to pass on the oblivious and award Cobie the nickname of MAGOO with the Os done up as eyes.
OK, I just have to ask, did you MEAN to write "oblivious" instead of "obvious", or was that just a really, really terrific Freudian slip? It cracked me up, that's for sure!
-
Yes, it was great to meet you and if you're working this weekend you will indeed seem me soon! I'll be there Sunday, and my husband will be there both days. Wheeee, I can hardly wait to get out there!
Great to meet you guys too! Will you be doing a school day? I'll be there both days at a yet to be determined corner
Cool, that's my FAVORITE corner!
Yes, I'll be taking Level 4 - not for the first time.
No matter how many times I come to CSS, I get just as excited every single time. It's a few minutes to 4pm and I am sitting here at my desk, watching the clock, feeling like a kid waiting to be let out of school for the summer!
Come say hi on Sunday - blue bike, really fast-looking.
-
Does it say anything about when the DVD is being released?
Mine showed up at my house this weekend! It's fantastic, way beyond my expectations. I 've read and read the books and been to lots of schools but still got plenty of new information from the DVD. And it's entertaining enough that it's easy to watch straight through... which I did... but now I want to go back and watch it again because I know there is more to pick up from it. The animations are incredible, gives you a perspective you could never get from a book or from watching someone ride. After seeing the DVD I am astounded by the scope of the project, what an impressive undertaking, and what a spectacular result!
-
Hey HF,
I met you a couple weeks back with your husband I believe doing a track daZ day at the Streets of Willow. Hope to see you soon and I'll be cornerworking this weekend. Thanks for posting the info. I will have to check them out.
Cheers,
Sof
Yes, it was great to meet you and if you're working this weekend you will indeed seem me soon! I'll be there Sunday, and my husband will be there both days. Wheeee, I can hardly wait to get out there!
-
If we can't use Flash for Cobie (although Flash Jr. is pretty funny) maybe it should be Streak. I hear he has earned that one.
-
Hey there,
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but there are FIVE short video interviews with Keith Code that have been recently added to the www.twistofthewristDVD.com website. The interviews are terrific, they have a lot of information about the making of the DVD (including clips from the movie and photos of the sets and locations), and some history about Keith and the school, and discussions of Keith's coaching techniques, etc. They are really interesting!
They are on:
www.twistofthewristDVD.com
One is on the Home page, two are on the "Making of" page, and two are on the "About the DVD" page.
They all say "On the Throttle" so you can probably find them on the On the Throttle site too.
Be warned - I was just going to watch a little bit of one, but I got hooked and watched all five in a row!
-
I haven't ridden in either one, and I'm just sayin'. I WILL be at Vegas, and I'm signing autographs.
I'm eyeing that Nov 21-22 Vegas date myself. I like Vegas, very flat but I like the series of left-right-left-right turns, each getting faster than the last... wheeee!
-
What about your legs guys? What could you be doing with your legs to help you use less effort to get the same or more pressure to the bars?
Oh boy! The asking questions routine again!
I've read the section in TOTW II, where it talks about pushing on the pegs and other parts of the bike to get leverage on the handlebars. Obviously you can't push on the bars unless you are bracing yourself against some other part of the bike. Where I find it most difficult to implement is the full transitions from one side to the other, where ya gotta make the hang off position change nearly simultaneously with the push on the bars, hard to be locked onto the bike in that scenario.
I've messed with the goemetry/suspension a little here and there. So far I've never found it to make that much difference in steering feel. For the moment I'm convinced its overrated, but I've never had the help of an experienced suspension tuner. In the end it's always a compromise between one advantage and another, and no matter how light you get the steering, you'll always want to push as hard as possible to go as fast as possible in chicanes, and that will take as much physical effort as you can put into it. In other words, if your goal is to go as fast as possible, a quicker steering bike would allow you to go faster, not push less. If it were a magical setting that allows you to turn with so little effort, why are the pros tired after a race? Are they doing it wrong? Have the wrong settings? No, they're just going as fast as they can! Bike settings might make it easier at any given speed, but that then just allows you to push it to the next level, either way you've got to expend the effort.
All I'm say'n is, while we can make some improvements in technique and suspension settings, in the end it will take some serious physical effort to go fast.
Maybe I have a basic misunderstanding on this, but is seems to me that you want to push FASTER, not harder. And intuitively, it seems like the more effort is required, the SLOWER you'd be ABLE to make the motion. Imagine trying to quickly push open a really heavy door versus a super-light one. So I think finding ways to reduce the amount of effort required would help you quicken your steering. So I think there is value in either making the bike easier to steer OR finding a way to change your body position or steering motion to require less muscle!
Regarding fatigue, when I am riding as fast as I can go, I get tired from holding onto the bike during braking, and from the cornering forces, but not from the steering. I don't think I've ever worn out my arms from steering, even in endurance races. I certainly do not have exceptional arm strength!
I found that steering got a LOT easier for me when my coach at a school worked with me on quick turns, and I learned to steer with a fast and very focused, deliberate movement, with a STOP point. One quick motion, then relax. Before that, I would push the bar and then remain very tense, stopping my arm motion by unconsciously resisting with my other arm or my shoulders, and wasting effort throughout a lot of the turn. Now, it is a much smaller movement, it has a MUCH more dramatic steering effect, and it's not tiring.
For sure as the entry speed comes up in a given turn, it takes more effort to turn the bike, but for me this is still a relatively minor effort compared to holding on during really hard braking, or hanging off in general!
-
Just to add another angle on this, have you taken a look at your bike setup? I've got my bike set up a bit lower in the front and higher in the back than stock, and it is VERY easy to turn. By comparison, my husband's Ducati takes a lot more effort - but it's also more stable through the turns. I think his bike is hard to ride, he thinks mine is scary as hell.
Even set up this way, a suspension guy watched me going through a chicane, told me the bike was wallowing in the middle of the transition, made a change to keep the front more stable through the chicane, and WOW did my transition speed improve. The first time I tried it, it flicked over so much easier I nearly ate the inside curb.
So if you are finding it takes a lot of effort to turn or you aren't getting through transitions quick, you might try steepening your steering angle or adjusting suspension settings.
-
I vote "Flash" for Cobie, partly because he's fast, but mainly because of his tendency to change clothes in full view of classrooms full of students.
Oh wait, is that one already taken by a UK coach? Darn...
-
I just registered to be allowed to post on the forum. Hello to everyone. I am 58 years old and have been street riding for about 10 years total off and on. I have read Keith's books and like his mental approach to solving problems, but I have one bad habit that has got me almost spooked. Just when I think I am riding pretty good this problem can rear its' ugly head and scare the ###### out of me. I am talking about target fixating in a tight situation. Using Keith's $10 analogy, it can take $8 of mine when this happens. Anyone know of any mental excercises to help manage this common problem?
Like lwarner said, Level 2 sorted me out on this, too.
I'm curious, what particular sights or situations seem to make you target fix? Someone about to turn left in front of you, or change lanes into you? Holes in the pavement, or slick spots, or curbs? Or does it happen when you are trying to go fast? Do you notice it happens more when you are tired? A little more detail on when it occurs might help us give you more input on this.
The best way I know of to manage this is to make sure you are not tired, and not riding over your head. Target fixing is the FIRST thing that happens to me when I am tired, overheated or dehydrated, and often happens when I am 'trying too hard' to go fast, or ride a certain way.
As far as exercises... if there are particular things that make you worried, like pavement snakes or the edge of the road, it might help you to intentionally (and slowly and safely) ride over or close to them to take the mystery and fear out of them. Acknowledge that it's there, you know what it is and how it would affect the bike. Then the worry about what "could happen" usually goes away. Same goes for hard braking; try it, safely, a few times and then when you really need it you won't have to stare at the pavement in front of you, as we all tend to want to do.
The Twist of the Wrist II DVD might help with this, too, lots of info on survival reactions. Of course it's all in the book, too, but it becomes really, REALLY clear when you see it on film, especially with the on-board camera view.
-
This is the first time I've seen this thread, very cool, as I often wonder where the school is at and what everybody's doing.
I actually really like the layout of the forum as it is, but I would definitely like to see a "tires" section (which you mentioned in another post), and I also had thought about starting a nickname thread but I wasn't sure if the coaches would appreciate it, hahaha!
Go for it on the nickname thread, that might actually get Pete up on the forum (I work him too hard to get up here
.Here are some of the names:
James Toohey: Hammer
Lonnie Etter: Dawg
Kristi M.: Hot Laps
Pete: Wipes
I don't know that all of these will stick, we are trying them on, but another thread, get your "suggestions" sound good to me!
CF
OK, where's the nickname thread? I'm suggesting "Shades" for Dylan, cuz he always seems to have to funky sunglasses.
-
Greetings CSS forum,
Been riding for 25 years but only been to 4 CSS days, first in 1992. Met Hotfoot & Sof at Streets yesterday and they reminded me to keep up with my CSS schools.
Hotfoot, thanks so much for your help at the track. You were only behind me for a couple turns before you passed me, but the observations & feedback you gave me about my riding dropped my lap times by 4 seconds! I can barely remember who I passed or who passes me. But you, in just a couple of turns were able to record accurate & meaningful info about my riding and effectively communicate that info to me. You unraveled the mistakes I was making were actually the result of other things I needed to change. Thanks again HotFoot for helping me out at the Streets.
Dave
Hi Dave,
Welcome to the forum, glad to see you found it, I'm sure you'll have a great time cruising through all the great info on here! Did you order a Twist of the Wrist II DVD, too? I ordered mine a few days ago, I'm pretty excited to see it released.
It was nice to meet you and Sof, and it's a lot of fun to exchange ideas with other CSS students - talking with you reminded me to use my two-step better, and after I followed your line once through Turn 7, I happily adopted it for the remainder of my day. So, glad I helped you out, and you helped me too.
Hope to see both you and Sof again soon, I'll be at CodeRace in a few weeks if yer up for a challenge!!
Hotfoot
-
I would think that if you are way leaned over and had a bump, dip or change in camber in the turn you could have ground clearance issues, like unexpectedly scraping a peg, that might not have happened at your previously lower speed.
Is there something specific (other than running wide) you are concerned about happening, if you go in faster?
-
Hi All,
A question to try and make the forum a little more vibrant!
How much lean angle is too much and how do you know when you have reached your lean angle limit?
Appanna
If you ride track days there is often a photographer tehre, so you can see how mmuch you are leaned. I was looking at my photos and saw some bike parts pretty darn close to the pavement, decided I better work on body position and quick turn a little more!
-
Conversation overheard between my 3 year old son and his babysitter:
Babysitter: "What's THIS in the picture?"
My son: "It's a Duc!"
Babysitter: "Nooooo, honey, it's a MO-TOR-CYCLE."
Sigh. Some people just don't get it.
My son likes tractors, too, so I anticipate some confusion when he identifies a Caterpillar, or a Deere.
-
I have the michelin power ones. Awesome tires. Pressures are 30/30 cold. I just started to play around with them on pressures. I was told by the vendor to not keep checking these tires throughout the day. Set em and forget em. Using some tire warmers this weekend at the track that are a privateer race teams I'm borrowing. ChickenHawk all the way...
Wow, 30/30? My Michelin guy is recommending 29/21 for the Power Ones! That's an awfully big difference! There are two different types of Power Ones available, the "retail" ones that you can get in a motorcycle store or from a Parts Unlimited type distributor, and the track version that is only available from trackside suppliers, which come in Hard, Soft, Med Soft, etc versions. Which ones are you on? I am running the track version, V front, Med Soft, and they are telling me 29/21 cold. I asked about hot pressures and he said the same thing your guy said, 'don't bother, just set them cold.'
I did run the 'retail' version a few months ago, and actually liked them better, they were not as stiff and I thought gave better feedback, but they had a little less grip. I think they were set to more like 30/30.
Isn't it irritating that they sell two totally different types of tires under the same name?
-
Probably most important question is this. How stable have you been able to keep the mower? At what point are you coming back to the throttle exactly...? I hope your getting your value for money out of race gas, and of course budgeting for when you blow the heads of the thing with the extra octane rating. Smells great though eh? I think this is the first example where a drink/drugs/porn habit may be of greater value to the wife than this hobby?
I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about, though personally I found the solution to the problem was just get your wife involved, it just stops the incessant nagging and the furrowed brow looks all the time! You know the ones, you sad little man, get over yourself and just paint the fence instead kinda look!
Let us know how it goes, though no theray is ever going to help that mate, I assure you!
Bullet
Oh, there are some dangers in getting your wife involved - here's a few:
1) It costs twice as much now
2) You talk each other into even more track days and bike parts
and lastly, nightmare of nightmares,
3) She MIGHT GET FASTER THAN YOU.
-
I was wondering why you would want to be calm and sensible when the green flag drops? You are definitely not sensible! Adam and Bullet hit on a point that from a physiological stand point does work, more in some than in others but it does work, Deep Breathing in through the nose fill the diaphragm and then out though the mouth, slows the heart rate down.
I am a type "A" so I enjoy the rush. Hotfoot hit on something about embracing it and I think this is a good thing to do. Live in the moment, take it all in, don't try to ignore your feelings or fight it but understand where these feelings come from. Ok, your excited! Just don't let it control you.
Well, I did it, yesterday, first WERA race! I was definitely nervous but the idea of embracing it as a thrill helped me a lot. I made sure I was very, very prepared, and organized, and early with everything, which made things a lot calmer. I kept it together well through practice, warmup, and the start of the first race, but it was a crowded grid and the scramble through the first three turns definitely got my heart rate up. After that, I started driving so hard out of the turns that I hit my rev limiter in a couple of different places, since my normal shift points were suddenly too far down the road! I lost some time with that, but was able to get refocused and run a good race. I ended up with a third place (I got a TROPHY!! YAY!!!) and I was thrilled with that.
I did a second race (went up a class), and wow, what a difference in my riding. I knew what to expect, rode a much calmer first lap, then got into a groove and ran laps that were 3 seconds faster than the first race, and much, much smoother. AND I beat the person that got second place in my first race. Hot damn.
We had a blast. There were three of us together that were all racing for the first time (a nice example of the blind leading the blind!) and one pattern that I noticed - we ALL made shifting errors in our first race. Either missed shifts or poor timing. I wonder if that is typical? I know I saw some other Novices having some shifting issues. Anyway, we all stayed upright, placed reasonably well and had a great time.
I must say that I was thoroughly impressed with WERA. Everything was organized, on time, well-run, well-communicated, safe, and friendly.
Thanks to all of you for your comments on this thread, ya helped me a lot!!
Valentino Rossi On Cornering
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Wow, good luck with that. I'm starting to think it takes a lot more than a year to learn suspension! It's like pulling a thread on a sweater, you just keep finding out there is more to it, and more to it, and more to it...