Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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BLSJDS makes great points.
Let me ask you some questions, to help you sort through this:
1) Is there one ideal entry speed for each turn, that will work for every rider, on any type of bike? Or is entry speed an individual thing, dependent on your bike, setup, skill level, the day's conditions, etc.?
2) Have you ever entered a turn at a speed that triggered one or more of the survival reactions listed on page 3 of A Twist of the Wrist II?
3) If you wanted to enter a turn faster (at the track, where you get to ride that turn repeatedly), would you want to make BIG increases on each lap or small, incremental ones, as you experiment with it?
4) Could looking down at the speedometer when entering a turn interrupt your visual flow? How would that affect your sense of speed, and your comfort level entering the turn? Have you ever been looking down at the dash of your car (or at your phone!) and then looked up to see a car stopped in front of you? Did that momentarily mess up your perception of how fast you were approaching that car?
5) if you DID enter a turn slightly (not dramatically) too fast, are there any indicators that could tell you that your entry speed was too high?
6) Would greater confidence about where the bike is going to go, and in your ability to steer it effectively, help you increase your entry speeds?
Regarding how control riders judge entry speeds while leading, I'll hazard a guess that they probably start at a speed that they believe is comfortable for any street rider, and then very gradually increase the speed until riders start to drop back a bit or their riding starts to look ragged (running wide, over braking, late on the throttle, etc.) I've definitely seen control riders at track days lead riders too fast on sighting laps.
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Oh, its totally worth it when you pass the big bikes in the corners.
On tight tracks like Streets of Willow the bigger bikes don't really have places to blow by you like that video.
Gorecki is right, 250 racing is GREAT, lots of fun, cheaper, very competitive, and in my experience the people are very cool.
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I will warn you, after spending a day or a weekend riding one of those S1000RR's around the track you just might find your bike back home a bit lacking
if your a serious rider taking the CSS course will be one of the best decisions you've made since you decided to start riding a motorcycle, you will be amazed at the difference it will have on your riding
+1 on that, and here's another warning, when I took CSS Level 1, I was NOT a serious rider, not by a long shot, and look what happened to me! Now I have a budget specifically for track days and racing... and an S1000rr in the garage!
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Hey all,
Old Harley rider here. I just came across Twist of the Grip2 video. It's as if I've never ridden a motorcycle before. After watching several times ( just started the book) it has completely changed my grin level for riding. I guess my question is, is 57 too old to take a CSS school? I have never been on a track and only on a sport bike once in my life. In over 21 years of riding I have been all over the country 2up. After all this time I would really like to ride correctly. Also riding the schools BMW would be pretty amazing.
After a couple of weeks my riding has noticeably improved just from watching the video. What do you guys think? Be Honest!
Jeff
PS. I am probably in better shape than your average 57 yr old:)
Absolutely not. No way is 57 too old, you will have a great time, and you will not feel out of place at all. An average CSS school day has a VERY wide range of ages.
Sign up, you'll be glad you did.
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After doing my first non CSS track day on my own bike (sv650) where they do not allow inside passing I found myself better at corners than most but that my bike is slower than most on straights and corner exit. How should I go about getting by people in these situations?
This is an very annoying part of riding a lower HP bike at open track days. Many riders on 1000cc bikes take an extreme outside entrance to the corner, slow WAY down, tiptoe through the corner, then pin it on the exit, leaving you no easy way to get by them. The BEST thing to do (in my opinion) is take more CSS schools and get faster so you can move up to a level at the track days where inside passing IS allowed, usually the advanced groups are safer to ride in anyway, much more predictable! That may sound flippant, but it is quite sincere, I ride a 250cc bike and you couldn't pay me to go back and ride in the slow group at an open track day, it is REALLY tough to make passes if you can't go inside.
In the meantime, one thing that can help is to hang back a little on the entry (so the slow rider is not blocking you and forcing you to brake hard), carry more speed into the corner and try to get around on the outside. Unfortunately, an inexperienced person on a high HP bike could gun it mid-corner and go wide, and you don't have the option to hold a tight line and pass on the inside, so he could potentially push you off the track, so you want to get the pass done as early as possible in the turn. Naturally if the rider is aggressive, he/she can pin the throttle and pass you back if there is a straight right after the turn, but often after you do it a few times they usually give it up or make a mistake and run wide and you can pull away.
The best trick is not to be so close to the slow rider on the turn entry that he robs all your momentum going into the turn. It also makes it easier to look ahead at passing options, instead of getting stuck staring at his taillight.
You can usually gain the most ground on point and shoot riders in a series of turns (chicanes, etc.) but can't usually pass IN those sections since an outside pass suddenly becomes an inside pass in the next turn - but you CAN try to set up the rider for a pass at the outside of the last turn in the series. Or, sometimes you can find a long sweeping turn that sucks inexperienced riders into an early, inside turn point, a great chance to pass them on the outside at the entry.
Check with your track day officials and see how they define inside passing - can you pass on the EXIT of the turn, on the inside? If so, you might be able to hang back a little, take a later turn point, quick turn the bike to a later apex and get an early drive to come up the inside on the exit of the turn. You also might request a passing flag, if this is a constantly occurring problem and you are really being held back.
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Thanks warregl! I've heard back from the registration office and am hoping to get the details worked out for CSS. I 'll be studying Electrical Engineering at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. I won't spill my whole life story, but
(snippage)
Sorry if I went off on a wild tangent. I forgot to mention I really enjoy riding at Barber's Motorsports Park. I've ridden at TGPR too, but the elevation changes at Barber just make for such an entertaining ride.
Congrats on getting into EE school. I'm a recovering EE (I got into management instead, so I joined The Dark Side) and there are several other Engineers hanging around in the forums.
And having helped a couple of students with uni prep courses for advanced math, I can tell that there's huge difference between how people learn math the best way. Unfortunately, the high school teachers are not always those who are the best at learning math to youngsters.
But huge hat's off to your feat, and I hope your success at DE will keep your motivation going (EE match can be a b***ch).
Oh, and welcome to the forum and hopefully to CSS.
Kai
Me, too (recovering EE, now in management). Welcome, Jordan! Hope to see you at Barber, I love that track, too.
Sounds like the CSS course will be perfect for you, it is a great way to improve your control of the motorcycle and thus your confidence, and that will certainly help sort out the frustrations you mentioned in your first post.
I'm sure you'll have a blast, just make sure you don't get so hooked that you want to spend all your study time at the racetrack!
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As Brad said, this is CSS's first time running at NOLA. The thing that will determine whether the off track bikes (brake bike, lean bike, etc.) can be used, is whether there is a safe and usable area to run them, so being their first time there, they won't know for sure until they get there the day before and set up. (But most tracks have some usable area, so cross your fingers.
) The camera bike should be available, barring any unforeseen technical issues.As far as what to bring, again Brad is on target - CSS has about everything you need, you'll just want something to wear under your leathers - UnderArmour works especially well, helps keep you cool and is thin and slides easily under the leathers. (A regular cotton T shirt is less comfortable, and can get bunched up or damp.)
You may prefer to use your own gloves, or helmet, or boots, but that is up to you; sometimes having your own gear is nice, but that just depends on how much STUFF you really want to travel with.
The most important thing, by far, is to show up rested, with a good attitude; and if it is hot, make sure to keep drinking plenty of water throughout the day - there's a lot of riding at a 2 day camp.
I'm sure you'll have a blast - let us know how it goes!
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I have some suggestions that are reasonably inexpensive to try:
1) Could you use more stomp grip to give you some grip with your inner thigh? I'm short and on one of my bikes my knee did not reach the tank cutout. So I put stomp grip where my leg DID contact the bike, which was about halfway between my hip and knee, and that helped.
2) Do you have a good heel guard that you can use to get some grip with your heel? That can make a surprising amount of difference.
3) There is some roll-on stuff available for horse riding called Saddle Stick or something similar, it is made to help slick leather show boots grip better on saddle leather. It can help make your leathers grippier and does not hurt the leather. It's clear, like a type of wax, and very inexpensive.
4) Velcro.
(ok, kidding on the last one)
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They are on the road headed to schools back east so I'm not sure when they will be able to get up on the forum.
Hey Hottie;
Does this mean you're not on the east coast bus tour this year?
Rain
The just fly me in for special occasions.
Actually, my son was the ring bearer in my niece's wedding this weekend (yes, it was very cute), so I needed to be in town for that. I'll be at Barber, though - looking forward to that, I think Barber is a GREAT track.
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I have been told that it's very rare to push the front tire to cause it to make that 'Krrrchh' sound through a Quick Turn maneuver. A coach explained to me that if I had, then the sensation should've been a loss of front end feel and vague steering response, which i did NOT feel--I just felt a squirrely front tire making a Krrrschh sound.
Hi shadow1, I sent a note to Cobie to take a look at this question, or maybe he'll refer it to Will. They are on the road headed to schools back east so I'm not sure when they will be able to get up on the forum.
I haven't experienced what you are describing. For what it's worth, I agree with what your coach said, about how it would feel if the front end slid - to me it feels like the front tire is suddenly on glass - very smooth, with no feedback. I've never heard an ABS noise but that does seem like a possibility, I'll be interested to hear what Cobie/Will have to say about it.
You mentioned you were at Streets of Willow - maybe you ran over a tumbleweed?
:)In which turn did this occur? Was the sound a tire-squeal sound, or a grinding, crunching sound?
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If we separate the lock on part from this question and just look at the weighting, since both pegs are connected to the frame, doesn't that minimize the importance of where the weight goes?
CF
Think of holding up a barbell with only one hand in the middle of the bar. If you put 10 lbs at either end, you get a total force of 20 lbs pushing down on your wrist. If you put 20 lbs on ONE end and none on the other end, you still have 20 lbs pushing down on your wrist, but now the bar will exert a twisting motion on your wrist because one side is weighted more than the other. That's why I think weighting the inside peg more could produce a "roll" torque - the twisting force you'd feel in your wrist.
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With the bike leaned over and with any decent speed (say over 50mph) how much will it matter which peg is weighted? Both are connected to the frame...any engineers want to take as stab a this? (try to esplain in real English for the geometrically challenged).
CF
OK, I'll take a shot at this; not sure I can manage plain English, though.
First, let's tackle weighting the pegs (either, or both) as opposed to sitting with all your weight on the seat. When you need to steer the bike, you have to lean it over, or rotate it about its roll axis. Putting weight on the pegs instead of on the seat puts your weight closer to the center of mass which makes it easier to steer the bike, because the bike rotates around the center of mass. (As Keith puts it in Twist II, "The center of mass is the part of the bike that moves the least, so getting your weight closer to it means you have to move that weight less distance"- see page 85 in Twist of the Wrist II.)Hypothetically, once the bike is leaned over, putting more weight on the inside peg would put the weight lower than putting it on the outside peg, and possibly that could help tighten your line - however you are talking about trying to overcome substantial gyroscopic forces, so unless you are going paralyzingly slow, I don't think it would make very much difference - certainly not enough to overcome the better BODY stability and anchor points we get from putting weight on the outside peg instead.
Weighting the outside peg helps you get a very strong pivot point from which to initiate your counter-steering effort (which of course takes more effort if you are going fast), and this aspect is so important that I think it far outweighs any marginal benefit you could get from weighting the inside peg. I also think switching weight from one peg to the other mid-turn (to try to tighten your line) could cause instability in your body and thus possibly wiggle the bike, not desirable mid turn.
One other point - I'm speculating here, but if the rear tire was already at the edge of traction (slippery surface, for example), it seem to me that weighting the inside peg more than the outside would introduce a rotational force that would want to make the bike roll MORE to the inside - potentially breaking loose that rear tire. (In contrast, using hook turn instead would put the weight to the front, using the front suspension to help tighten the line.) Obviously gyroscopic forces are much stronger (at speed) but if the bike is already about to slide out, seems to me that weight on the inside peg would NOT improve the situation.
Do I recall that dirt riders, when traversing a steep hill, weight the outside peg to keep the rear tire from sliding out?
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Here is a page with good info from Snell:
http://www.smf.org/helmetfaq#aDroppedHelmet
Something I read recently said you should not hang your helmet on a side mirror or handlebar, because it puts pressure on the inside and can crush parts of the foam lining. I had never thought of that.
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[Here is the track running clockwise turn 5 (the long left hander) people just hold the throttle .. I know Keith says you need just a little throttle to keep the 40/60 weight but that turn is so freaking long you cannot do that or you will end up running wide screwing up the next turn
WOW. That is quite a turn, and you weren't kidding about it being light bulb shaped!
Maybe see if you can find a place where you can get on a constant circle, set your speed and then try doing a slight, gentle roll-on, then gentle decrease of throttle, with your arms VERY relaxed on the bars, and observe how your line changes. Too much will make you go wider, but not enough will end up slowing you down and making your arc tighten. Cornering and wind forces will have the effect of slowing the bike, so holding the throttle FLAT with no roll-on at all will end up with the bike slowing down.
So, if you are smooth with it, you should be able to use your throttle throughout that whole long turn to widen or tighten your line as desired. If, at the end, you find that you are a little wider than you want, hook-turn would be very useful - have you been to CSS and seen that technique?
It is a challenge in a long turn to use enough roll-on to stabilize the bike and hold your line but not so much that you end up with TOO much accumulated speed at the end. If you feel like you are having to steer the bike back out, though, I'd try adding a bit of throttle instead and try to correct it that way.
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Very nice! one question tho .. is a maintenance throttle corner(lightbulb shaped turn) what does it mean if you have to push the outer bar slightly to stay in line
That sounds like a throttle control issue - if you are not rolling on the throttle ENOUGH, you may be slowing down, which will tighten up your arc, making you have to steer the bike to the outside to keep it on your desired line. Do you recall, from Twist of the Wrist or the Twist II DVD, how MUCH acceleration is required for good throttle control? Anyone else want to chime in on that?
If you are sure that you are rolling on the throttle enough to maintain at least a slight acceleration, it could be a suspension issue, the front end 'packing down' and causing the bike to steer in tighter - in that case, stiffer on compression and/or looser on rebound might help. But I'd for sure try doing a more progressive throttle roll-on first, that is most likely to fix it.
You are using the term "maintenance throttle" and I think that can mean different things to different people - what does it mean to you?
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I agree with your explanation entirely about how the helmet components are supposed to work. . BUT, still, isn't it a matter of degree? How much of a scrape on the pavement compresses the liner? How much compression is acceptable? My uninformed opinion is that a scratch like we're talking about here won't compromises the practical effectiveness of that helmet one little bit. I may be wrong here, but there are probably instances when the liner either is not crushed or is crushed in such a minimal way as to not matter. And if its your Shoei X12 with the little scratch are you really going to throw it away? I doubt it. I'm all for safety. We all are. But that's just too extreme for me. However I will bring my nice new, unscratched lid to a Superbike school!
I'm not quite sure if you are talking about the school policy, or personal preference - so just to be clear, in Cobie's example, the student crashed and hit his head, at the school. Therefore he was not allowed to keep riding that day, that is school policy. The school cannot safely determine if someone is ok to ride after head impact; it wasn't like Cobie just randomly noticed a scratched helmet and told him he couldn't ride.
Obviously in other circumstances, only you would know what sort of history your helmet has, and it would be a personal judgment whether to continue using one that had been in a 'minor' fall. Personally I'd rather ride in a $200-$400 helmet that has never hit the ground than a $700 one that had been through a crash... Since racing rules require a new helmet at least every 5 years and recommend it every 2 years, I just stopped buying $700 helmets! Anyway, I think it is free to have a helmet manufacturer check your helmet, that would be a good way to be sure it still offers maximum protection.
Something to consider - in reading up on helmets I remember that the major head impact from a motorcycle fall (assuming you don't hit an obstacle) is from the HEIGHT of the fall, not sliding fast on the pavement. Sliding is a less damaging thing and handled by the shell, but the fall from riding height has to be absorbed by the helmet lining material to protect your brain from trauma. I suppose, based on that, a helmet could appear to be almost undamaged but still have a crushed inner liner.
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There is a lot of information and technology in this area. We have had some good data show up in the tires section to start, Tuning should do that too, but would be good to get some up here too.
Here is one example of lack of information/wrong information: Talked to a student that was not allowed to continue his day, as he had fallen and the helmet had contacted the ground. Our policy, if the head and helmet hits the ground, he is not going back out that day.
In talking with this rider, he was asked his understanding of helmets and how they work. He went on to talk about the integrity of the shell being the big factor, and since it was a pretty minor scratch, he actually crashed twice more in that helmet. I pulled my jaw off the floor and then we went over the compression of the material on the inside. That is what cushions the head in an impact, and it's a one-time use deal.
I'm not a helmet expert, so that's a very rudimentary understanding.
The idea will be to get some good information up here, aside from general discussion on riding gear.
How's that sound to you guys?
Best,
Cobie
hmm, I'm not a helmet expert either and certainly less expert than most in riding per se. That said, I never heard of the "one time use". It seems like it would be a matter of degree like most other things. It would make sense to disqualify the lid if you knew for certain that the helmet protection was compromised --shell or padding. But would a little scuff ("minor scratch") as a result of a fall where your head contacts the pavement disqualify that helmet absolutely? How many of us would trash can a $700 helmet for that? How many helmets have fallen off bikes and gotten scratched. There no head in it, in that case but still...
I am not suggesting we be cavalier with our head safety but there must be some reasonable way to decide that without a black & white, yes or no rule for helmet contact. I know Shoei (for example) will inspect your "damaged" helmet and let you know if it is still doing its job as specified and therefore safe to continue using. You don't see riders throwing away racing suits after an off (usually). I respect that you have your rules at Superbike and maybe you are right to have them. It just seems like DQ'ing a helmet for any contact is a bit extreme.
I'm not an expert either, but I have read up on this, mainly researching whether the costlier helmets really provide any better protection than the mid-range helmets, so here is my understanding:
The problem is that the material inside the helmet is crushable, that's how it absorbs impact. After being crushed, it doesn't spring back to shape and thus has lost its ability to protect you in another impact. That crushable material is between the outer shell and the inner padding, you can't see it, so the ony way to check it is to send it (as you say above) for inspection by the manufacturer.
In a crash, the inner material is crushed by your head's inertia inside the helmet - so the shell hits the ground, but the crushable stuff between head and shell cushions the impact, slowing your head down and helping to keep your brains from slamming into your skull, and /or your skull crushing on impact.
Personally, if my helmet fell off a bike, I would be a little concerned about its protectiveness after that but I probably wouldn't junk it - since there is nothing heavy INSIDE the helmet to crush the inner liner in the fall. And yes, that could potentially scratch the helmet paint a bit, but in my limited experience, that does not look like the broader scuffs that occur from an actual crash impact.
However, if a student crashed, hit their head, and there was visible damage to the helmet, I would absolutely not think it was wise for that person to continue riding, it's too difficult to tell if someone has a head injury or not; they might think they are fine when they really are not.
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So I have a new chain on my bike. It's covered in white goop. I did a short ride on the bike (I'm also breaking in a new piston) and that new chain is throwing gunk EVERYWHERE, including onto my rear tire!
I've asked three people (so far) about whether I should clean that factory grease off and gotten the following answers:
1) Get the chain hot, use a cleaner/degreaser to get all that ###### off, then spray it with Chain Wax, DON'T use Chain Lube
2) DON'T clean off that stuff, it came with the chain, it is necessary and if you clean it you will be compromising the O-ring design of the chain
3) Wipe it gently then re-spray it with Chain Lube, DON'T use a cleaner, and DON'T use Chain Wax.
SO, with that selection of completely contradictory answers, I'm not sure what I should do! What do you do with a new chain, do you clean and re-lube, or just wipe it down...?
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It has to do with load and grip, something we've discussed to some length under another topic. Other than style, the ideal tyre has zero width. You could say that tyres are as narrow as possible and as wide as required. It's a compromise between grip, logevity and handling. It's actually amazing how well tyre makers together with chassis designers have been able to make modern bikes handle with such wide tyres.
Older bikes had generally less power, so they could do with narrower tyres. But when power and weight crept up radically, starting in the late 60s, so did tyre wear. A 100 hp old style motorycle with a 4-inch rear tyre would typically wear it flat in 2000 miles or less if ridden with a bit of vigor. And that's with a touring style rubber.
Yup, I agree with all of the above - I think when you have a high horsepower bike you need that larger contact patch so you don't just rip the rubber right off the tire. My little 40 hp Moriwaki has a skinny rear tire, as does my little 200cc (4 stroke) dirt bike, neither has a lot of horsepower and they don't wear out the rear tire like a high horsepower bike would. In fact, in my last race weekend, I realized my FRONT tire wore out (on the Moriwaki) before the rear tire. That never happened on my 600, and my husband goes through 2-3 rear tires on his 1000cc before changing the front.
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Trying to revive an old thread (there might be more nicknames on the way after the trip to India)
So ... why is Hotfoot called Hotfoot?
/Kai
I'm not sure if this is well known outside the US, but there is an old prank called a "Hotfoot" where you would stick the end of a match in the edge of someone's shoe, and light it, with the idea that when it burned to the end it would sting their foot and make them jump. It has also evolved to mean "go fast" as in "you better hot-foot it on down to the store before they close!"
But Kai asked how I got that nickname, so here you go:
I was driving a retired NASCAR racecar at a race school. As I was getting up to speed and shifting to 4th gear I smelled a little bit of a burning smell. I didn't see any smoke or anything so I thought maybe it was just the clutch getting hot - but then as I came around Turn 2 onto the backstretch, a piece of insulation fell out from under the dash onto my feet and it was on FIRE. Yikes!
So I shut off the engine and as I reached the backstretch (coasting in neutral, at about 100mph) I pulled off onto the apron and stopped. That turned out to be a bad idea because as soon as I stopped the car filled up with acrid and choking smoke, and since I was on the backstretch I was not close to any emergency vehicles. It is surprisingly difficult to extricate yourself from a stock car without help; you have to take off the steering wheel, release the harness, unfasten the safety window, and then climb out through the window opening, all while wearing a HANS device (and a helmet) that prevents you from looking down or ducking your head. But I was highly motivated!
So I managed to get myself out and then I ran from the car because it was really burning by then (the windshield was melting!) and I was afraid it would explode. A thick column of black smoke was coming up from it, I learned later that my friends in the paddock, who were on the opposite side of the track and couldn't see anything BUT the smoke, were afraid I had crashed into the wall - especially when they saw the two fire trucks and the ambulance heading that way.
Anyway the fire trucks arrived a moment later, and eventually were able to get the fire out. Something in the fuel system had broken off and was squirting race fuel into the engine, which caused and sustained the fire. I rode back to the paddock in a fire truck and my friends and co-workers were relieved to see that I was ok; they all crowded around and asked me what happened. I told the story much as I have told it here (except that I was covered in black soot when I was telling it to them, which may have added to the ambiance) and someone jumped on that image of the flaming insulation falling on my feet, and started calling me Hotfoot. The name stuck, as nicknames will do.
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Hey all,
I read this article http://www.stevemund...m/friction.html and it kind of turned my understanding about traction and contact patch size around.
If I understand correctly contact patch size doesn't matter as far as friction is concerned. All that matters is:
- Friction coefficient (something we cannot influence as it depends on track surface and tyre compounds)
- Bike + rider weight
Well then where's "contact patch" in the grip equation? If I remember well Keith explained that by rolling on the throttle smoothly while in the corner you actually make use of the larger contact patch of the rear tyre which can carry more load. If this is true it seems these pieces of information contradict with each other.
What is your opinion? What's the point of having a larger tyre contact patch?
Thanks,
Tony
Hopefully Steve can answer this in a much better way - but here are my thoughts, for what they are worth:
1) for sure, the real-life situation is not as simple as that equation - there are additional factors like tire flex, tread flex, heat, slip angle, tire deflection, etc. that make the basic static friction formula above not adequate to define the actual traction you experience while riding
2) I don't think the coefficient of friction can be assumed to be constant in this application, because if you had a very small contact patch you could (I think) overload the tire, overheat and melt (or possibly tear) the top layer of rubber, and now you have different coefficient of sliding friction because you are slipping on melted rubber. In other words, the "surface area" component you are looking for may essentially be hidden within that coefficient of friction number.
I'm sure there is way more to it than that, but I'm confident that the article above is a vast oversimplification based on static friction and the "ideal conditions" that always became a joke in my dimly-remembered physics classes. (Example: "assume a perfectly spherical body on a perfectly frictionless surface....")
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LMAO! That is priceless.
Maybe Pete can photoshop a mock-up for us...
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For sure there isn't a one size fits all on the braking, but having ridden big Harleys that did not have top quality brakes, 4 fingers was needed. On modern sport bikes, 2 will do it for sure and most find it easier to blip with 2 fingers on the throttle.
CF
OK... gotta know... is there more to the story about the big Harleys? Do you have a collection of dusty leather vests in your closet?
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I think I leave a lot of room for error on the street but I've had others tell me I'm nuts. Eh, my definition of safe is different than most other people. The thing that gets them is that I commit to turns. I respond with yeah but I'm going into the turn so slow I can see if it's safe and I can always pick the bike up and stop within my line of sight.
For your viewing pleasure I present two videos of Deals Gap. One done on an R6 by an ex-racer that runs about my speed at a track. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3WbqmFIEGSg
The other done by me on a 2001 FZ-1 in 2003.
One is practically full on race speed. The other, fast but definitely street speed.
Resurrecting an old topic - following the FZ-1 video I stumbled upon this. The difference in smoothness and control between the two is very noticeable.
Wow, you can see a LOT of examples of throttle control errors in this one! Here are some that I saw, in various spots on the video:
Delayed (late) roll-on, often followed by abrupt / too aggressive roll-on
Too EARLY (before steering was completed, and he goes wide and almost off the road)
On and off the gas in the midst of the turn
And then at the end, he clearly has a scary moment, which slows him WAY down - what do you think happened there?
Also, did you notice any steering corrections mid-corner?
I was lucky in that I went to the Superbike School BEFORE I tried riding fast or aggressively on mountain roads - it must be very frustrating for a rider like this to feel the instabilities of the bike and have those close calls, and not know the mechanics of what is happening or how to fix it!!!
How The Entering Speed For Each Turn Is Found?
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Ok, good answers. First let me correct a possible misconception, based on your first post: I don't think it is realistic to think that racers find the traction limit, look at the speedo, then memorize the perfect entry speed. For one thing, I ride a purpose-built race bike, and it doesn't HAVE a speedo, and was never designed to have one.
And, as someone else said before, looking down at the instruments at turn entry is not practical, it interrupts your visual flow and you would be forced to slow down considerably to accomplish it. Also conditions change, lap to lap - my tires may have considerably less grip at the end of a race compared to the beginning, or a competitor may have forced me to use a different turn point - which means a different entry speed.
Judging entry speed is an art, your question is quite broad, so let's see if we can narrow it down, to see what problem you are trying to solve, or what barrier you are encountering:
1) if you just look where you are going and ride the turn based on your own sense of speed (without looking at the speedo), what happens? Do you make errors, trigger SRs, feel like you could / should have gone faster?
2) if you make errors (running wide, making more than one steering input, sliding a tire, etc.) what specifically are they?
3) if you trigger an SR, which one is it? (There can be more than one!) You can find a list of SRs, and resultant errors, on p3 of Twist II.
4) are you comfortable and riding without errors, but just want to increase entry speed?
5) are you concerned about your ability to judge entry speed, feel like you are not precise, consistent or accurate?
I'm trying to get a handle on what specifically is causing the uncertainty about entry speed, because it is something you need to be able to choose for yourself, on every turn you ride. If it is something NOT covered in the questions above, just let me know.