Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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Reading your note, Cobie, jogged my memory, and made me realize that a while ago, I actually did write down some of the things I like about riding! It was after reading Keith's article, Transcendental (which is fantastic, it's posted in the "Articles" section on this forum), so I went back and looked. This is what I wrote, at that time:
"For me, the best ride, the perfect ride, is when I can find that joyous excitement, the special thrill of feeling the bike skimming over the pavement, and seeing the track flowing swiftly by. There is a disassociation from concerns about "how I'm riding" or who is behind me or what I should change, it's all sensation and it seems like the controlling of the bike becomes nearly effortless.
For me, a really terrific fast turn feels like sledding down a steep snowbank, or swinging too high on the swingset; I've committed to the turn and now I'm just enjoying the ride, and seeing how fast I can go! There's a certain death-defying feeling to it, which makes it thrilling; and a certain perfection, when it all comes together exactly right.
When I can capture that feeling, I stop being a bundle of worries, and thoughts, and wasted motions, and start really having a ride."
Just reading that again makes me remember some really excellent days, and makes me want to go riding again, right now!
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Hello fellow riders,
I'm heading to VIR for a school this fall (YAY!!) and I've never been there. It was recommended to me to fly into Greensboro airport, but the flight options aren't that great. I can get a much better schedule and fare if I fly into Raleigh-Durham instead. Looking at a map, it looks like it's only slightly farther to drive; any advice on this? Is there any reason NOT to just fly into Raleigh?
Thanks in advance for advice or ideas.
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Awesome, Fossil (sorry, it's just irresistible), that sounds fantastic. Wish I coulda been there to see it.
Hey, don't go pushing up that age limit, I'm in a big hurry to get out of the races that are full of 18-25 year olds!! Clearly, though, when you look at laptimes and watch the races, Senior Superbike is serious competition, it's great that you are doing so well.
I'm still waiting for the "old lady" division to arrive, I bet I'd do great.
Thanks for letting us share in your fun.
Why aren't you competing in Women's Super Stock?
I am, I'm just not willing to travel to do it. WERA comes here twice a year. I raced last fall and was there to race in January but had a problem with the bike and couldn't get it handled in time to make the race. (I ended up racing a rented 250 that day, got third in my race, had a hell of a good time.) I plan to race in the fall race this year.
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Once I realised there was a real technology to riding (interesting twist of fate that saw me at a Superbike School becuase my road license was suspended for being a squid), my motivation for doing it switched to one of progressing my understanding and application of it. I didn't choose to make that switch, but all of a sudden the progression became a source of fascination. That's still the case today. "How deep does the rabbit hole go?" kinda thing.
Most enjoyable part - When your mind falls silent, and there's no thoughts or worries taking any attention. Just you and your senses.
I read Cobie's original question and thought, hm... I'm not sure I know the answer! I bought my first bike in college because I couldn't get a parking permit for a car. Sole reason. How in the heck did I get to this point, a race license, a stack of CSS graduation certificates, and a garage full of bikes?
Then I read Adam's post above, and I realized he captured it perfectly - I came to the Superbike School somewhat by chance, and when I found out how much there was to learn... well, I was fascinated, too.
His last statement perfectly describes the best part of all, no way I can say it better.
Nicely written, Adam06, thanks!
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Awesome, Fossil (sorry, it's just irresistible), that sounds fantastic. Wish I coulda been there to see it.
Hey, don't go pushing up that age limit, I'm in a big hurry to get out of the races that are full of 18-25 year olds!! Clearly, though, when you look at laptimes and watch the races, Senior Superbike is serious competition, it's great that you are doing so well.
I'm still waiting for the "old lady" division to arrive, I bet I'd do great.
Thanks for letting us share in your fun.
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Hey, looks like Keith Code was working with Leon Camier last weekend at the Miller WSBK event - and Leon got second place in race 2!! How cool to see someone go through the Superbike School, and then go on to be at the top of the sport; and I love knowing that I have access to the same coaching that the world class racers get. I am motivated. I signed up for VIR.
Check out this article on SuperbikePlanet.com:
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/May/100531fr.htm
The author calls Keith "Gandalf-Of-The-Knee-Down", THAT'S a new one... I thought "Guru of Road Racing" had become Keith's permanent moniker.
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OK, I have a question. I was riding someone else's bike on the track, first thing in the morning, on race take-off slicks. I was going slow on the sighting lap and noticed that I would turn the bike (set the lean angle) and if I relaxed on the bars, the bike would stand up. Whoa! I had to actually keep some pressure on the bar to keep the bike at the desired lean angle. I thought there was something wrong with the goeometry so I asked about it and the owner of the bike (very experienced rider) said, "Yeah, race slicks do that, when they're cold. They make the bike want to stand up. It will go away."
Well, sure enough once the tires warmed up that problem went completely away. So, what I want to know is WHY do they do that? I've certainly never noticed this on my own bike, but I don't run tires like those either.
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Hey
I might be coming to the US to visit Disneyland with my family in the next 6 to 12 months...sooooo i was wondering what tracks are nearby?
thinking maybe a 2 day camp. Be nice to have an idea when the 2 day camps are just so I can book the holiday around the track dates
Family first of courseCheers
If you are coming to Disneyland in California (versus Disney World in Florida) there ARE tracks close by. California Superbike school has a lot of dates, including 2 day camps, at "Streets of Willow" which is in Rosamond, CA (close to Lancaster), roughly an hour and a half drive from Disneyland. It's a terrific place to take a school.
Next closest CSS track location would be Las Vegas, you can fly there on Southwest Airlines in less than an hour and the flights are really cheap, or drive it in about 4 and half hours. Laguna Seca is probably next, drive it in... uh... I think 6-7 hours?
Other tracks that are close to Disneyland (but not used by CSS) are Auto Club Speedway in Fontana (Fastrack runs track days there often) which would be about 45 minutes away or the brand new Chuckwalla Valley Raceway, which is in Desert Center and roughly an hour and half to two hours away.
Streets of Willow with CSS would be the best option, it's pretty darn close.
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I notice that if I can ride two days in a row, I am DEFINITELY more comfortable on the second day, one of the reasons I love 2 day camps! FossilFuel makes a great point, if things have changed equipment-wise, it takes longer to get back up to speed.
Regarding other types of riding, for me personally riding a dirtbike doesn't seem to translate to riding the sportbike fast. I mean, it helps in general, for basic skills like shifting (except of course that my dirtbike is standard shift and my track bike is reverse - ugh!), but to stay in top form at the track I don't think filling with dirt bike rides keeps me really sharp... although it's definitely better than nothing, and it for sure helps keep my quads and other muscles fit.
I also ride a YSR50 on track, and although I LEARN a lot when riding the little bike, if I go right from a day on the little bike to a day on a 600, it feels totally different and the speed differential and handling differnces are huge - I am not sure if it is good preparation or not! Anybody else have an opinion on practicing on a minibike? It's cheaper and a lot easier to get track time, since I can go on the go-kart track.
For me, the answer how often I have to be on track to avoid any backsliding is about the same as Rainman's - if I go longer than 3-4 weeks between rides, there is some uncertainty at the beginning of the day, trying to remember all the bits and pieces to getting a smooth fast lap! But when I ride more often it feels a lot more natural and I can get up to speed by second session.
Does street riding between track days make enough difference that it would be worth putting all the street stuff back on my track bike? I don't really have a good "twisties" ride near me, it would be mostly stop and go riding on straight roads.
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I don't ride on the street anymore, just the track, but there can be weeks or months between track days. How often do you think you have to ride to keep your skills sharp? What minimum riding schedule would you have to maintain to keep laptimes consistent?
Or, to flip the question, how long can you be away from the track without losing ground, or seeing a undesirable change in laptimes?
Or to ask yet another way, how often would you have to ride to GET fast, like an A-group (race group) track rider?
And, once you have been off for a while (say 5 months, over the winter, for example) how long does it take to "get it back"? Can you get back up to speed in one track day?
What is your experience, how often do YOU have to ride to stay sharp?
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I used warmers for the last two years, mainly because my riding buddies persuaded me that I was throwing away expensive track time warming up my tires, and also partly because I was running race tires and doing some racing and needed them for that. I was able to go a little faster on those stickier tires, but they wear out fast and they cost a LOT, and I HAD to use warmers. Without warmers, those tires (I was using Michelins) took longer to warm up and were really stiff when cold - pretty scary to ride on for the first few laps.
This year I got tired of buying really expensive tires every 3-4 track days and tired of fooling with warmers, so I put my kickstand back on, switched to Dunlop Q2s, and put the warmers and stands away for now.
The Q2s warm up REALLY fast, I can tell easily when they are warm, they have lots of grip, they cost MUCH less than what I was paying for the stickier tires, and they last a lot longer. So, although I lose a lap or so each session, when I compare the difference in cost for the TIRES, especially since they last a lot more days, I am much better off overall. And I LOVE not screwing around with the stands and warmers, and getting extension cords or a generator to my pit, etc. Could I run warmers with the Q2s? Probably, but they warm up so fast, why bother? Plus they are pretty easy to ride on cold - not like the race tires.
The only down side is that my buddies outrun me for the first lap, because they run warmers and go faster on the outlap. But I catch up.
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Hey, we'll miss you, come back soon!
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Nope Mike is blowing me off
I did find the PM system though... Top right hand corner, you should see your user name, this is a dropdown menu and the messenger is one of the options...
OH! WOW, there it is! Thanks!
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Looks good Mike
Can't find my pm inbox though
Stu, did you get an answer on the above? Are Private Messages still possible?
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Thank you for stating what I pretty much assumed to be the case. I just feel I am safely within the realms of the grip the few times I do this. I've done it around a couple of corners for many, many years.
The reason for the action is that these two corners that spring to mind where I ride this way, is that they both have a change of direction going into them and both the way their shape is initially and the fact that they start out as off-camber corners and gradually gets into positive camber makes it fun to accelerate through, but scary to attack from the onset. Did that make any sense
I know that I were on the edge of the tyre because the sidestand was just touching down, which is as far as I ever lean - and I do not have any chicken strips, only a tenth of a mm here and there around the circumference where the tyre isn't absolutely evenOh! Now it makes more sense, if the turns you are riding go to a positive camber at the end, the forces acting on your bike change - in your favor - so you may be able to get away with a bit more lean, but it seems a bit tricky to judge (just thinking over the math makes my head hurt, maybe Jaybird will want to start calculating the changes in cornering force on the tire and the improved effectiveness of the suspension as the camber changes) so just be careful!!
Also thanks for telling me how you were judging that you were on the edge of the tire - since it's very hard for me to get my knee down (I'm short) I was wondering how you could tell in a particular corner if you were at the edge. I'm not too interested in dragging my sidestand, though, guess I'll have to find another way! I need kneepucks with curb feelers.
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Prolly going to take som flak for this, but I need to ask. I wonder when does it become dangerous to add throttle and lean angle at the same time? As I rode through a long corner today, I accelerated from about 50 to 65 mph and at the end I was at the edge of the rear tyre (more lean and grip available aplenty, just that I had reached my maximum which equals with no chicken strips). I was accelerating smoothly and gently and also smoothly adding more lean.
My feeling is that I was still a very long way from actually taxing the grip limit of either tyre. Obviously, there is more stress on the rear tyre than there would be if I were just cruising through, but I'm pretty convinced there was quite a bit left.
So, how much lean is needed until this becomes a problem? Surely, leaning over from 20 to 30 degrees while accelerating cannot produce any cause for concern unless you have massive power that you put to full use?
I'm sure the answer to this question will depend a lot of factors, like road surface, what bike you ride, which tires you use, etc., and I won't try to address that part of the question. But, since I think Cobie is on the road right now and might not be available to respond to this, I'll repeat something I've heard him say lots of times: the danger of adding lean angle and throttle at the same time, is that if/when the rear tire DOES run out of grip, you don't get any warning, and it can toss you suddenly. And it can be a nasty way to fall. You are, after all, adding TWO stresses on the traction at the same time, inreasing lean angle AND throttle simultaneously, easy to shoot right past the "warning" stage and into the airborne stage.
On the other hand, if you are standing the bike up as you roll on the throttle, you are putting stress on the rear tire with the throttle, BUT you are also IMPROVING your traction by reducing lean angle, so you wouldn't be approaching the limit as rapidly. You would have a better chance of getting some warning if the tire starts to slide, and if you are already raising the bike more upright, you have a much better chance of recovering from a slide.
I'm curious, what was prompting you to add lean at the end of the long corner, versus driving and standing the bike up? Also, how did you know that you were at the edge of the tire?
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You seemed to be leaned over quite a bit more than the bloke following you, and also quite a bit compared to just about anything, from what little I saw on screen. Could you just have overextended the available grip?
Ok Eric thanks for your opinion on this but I am a bit confused about your coment "Could you just have overextended the available grip?" I cant resolve any issues in my head thinking like that!
A little about me at this track, this was my first trackday here this year and I quickly discovered that I was a fair bit quicker than I used to be, so much so that I had to find some places where I could pass slower riders, so for that purpose I was experimenting with a few different lines, I had found that if I could get close enough to the lead rider by the end of the straight, go through turn 1 and 2 take a late entry into turn 3 (where I crashed) I could get on the power early and pass on the exit of this turn up the inside towards turn 4, I had made this work a couple of times throughout the morning especially against bigger bikes that I could not pass on the straight! Now if you look at the video it looks like I was hoping to go for this move on the rider in front of me, meaning I was carrying more lean angle than normal because I would have had to exit in the middle of the track, watching the video I dont think I would have been close enough to make the move work and would have ended up tucking in behind him for turn 4 but it looks like thats the line I was going for!
cheers
Bobby
Bobby,
I hope you don't mind me entering the fray. And by the way it is nice to see you again. I think you created the problem by enterng the corner late and had to much lean angle. I watched through the other corners as well and in my opinion you are not getting off the bike. The body position isn't an issue until you start trying to carry more speed. Your body position looks a little twisted, like you are sliding your hip over but keeping your upper body over the center.I think you could have carried more speed on the same line as the guy in front of you if you could get your upper body off the tank and your chin in your right elbow. You would have blown right passed him.
Thanks fossilfuel, of course I dont mind you entering the discussion, all opinions are welcome!
What you are saying about my body position at higher speeds makes sense to me and gives me an area to look at, this web link is of a few photos of me before the crash that morning and are mostly taken through the hairpin so are quite slow but the last 2 look like they are at a faster turn and my body position doesn't look so good.
http://www.trackpix.co.uk/showgallery.asp?gal=30-04-10%20-%20Bobby%20CBR600rr
The other thing about turning in late has opened a can of worms in my mind as this was something I spent alot of attention on achieving, on track and road I always try to turn a little later, have I got this wrong?
Bobby
Regarding a late turn point, there are lots of advantages to late turn points, as you have already noticed... but it's possible to take it too far, and I've done it! Picture an extreme example (it helps to draw this, draw a 90 degree turn with a REALLY deep turn point), if you turn really, really late, you can end up making the corner tighter (the turn angle more acute) and you can end up with less room to ride, by not using the whole track. Think of it this way, if you "square off a corner" too much, what does your turn angle look like, and what happens to your entry speed? Or, if you keep your enrty speed the same, what happens to your lean angle?
An quick check is to observe whether you can hit your desired apex point; at a track I ride often there is a tight decreasing radius turn that requires a very late turn point. Sometimes I go in a bit too deep in that turn, then find myself 8 feet away from the inside curb, and that's how I know immediately I turned in too late, I can't make my apex. And usually it's right about then that someone passes me on the inside, having seen from behind that I was going wide AND slowing down too much.
At the school a suggested experiment is to pick a turn, choose a turn point, then try turning before it, on it, and after it, and see how things change with an earlier or later turn point. Sometimes it's worthwhile to go in WAY too deep, just to see what happens to your vision, your entry speed, your line, etc., it's very educational, and of course that is the exercise that fixed it for me.
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Modern tires are amazing, for sure.
This last weekend of schools, I parked my bike towards the end of the 2nd day, with cords showing. I had zero traction issues, the thing was still sticking! Not recommending this, and don't even know what the tire was or how old, but it was a slick.
CF
So... now I'm curious, if you ride a tire down to cords (not that I have any desire whatsoever to try that), do you only have traction concerns or is there a danger of blowout at that point? Like Fossil's example, high speed straight, tire is expanding, heating up, etc., if you are running out of rubber is the tire strength compromised, too?
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What makes a good student? Just look at my profile page...
SO glad to see you back on the board, I missed ya.
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Rain here and well no, it didn’t rain What’s up with that?
OK with Cobie calling me out here I will ‘fess up. I have been a Duc Man for a long time but that BMW S1000RR has put some Duc Doubts into my small head. If you are curious about its performance I can attest to it being the most sophisticated and forgiving motorcycle you can find anywhere bar none. It has the nimble feel of a 600 with the power of a liter bike on steroids. You can flick it on a dime and for me personally that was huge. It delivers its power in a more controlled and linear fashion that any in line four I have ridden so despite its power it will protect you from yourself if you know what I mean
I have struggled with the “Quick Turn” for almost decade yet I was able to snap the S1000RR in all day long. For those of you familiar with the Streets of Willow Springs you know you need to be able to flick the bike quickly to get around there so this one accomplishment was exhilarating. I do need to be Fair here however (no pun intended) but Cobie was also a big part of coaching me over that hurdle. His on track coaching was spot on and coupled with Pete Castanik’s ’s Level IV guidance (especially on BP) and toss in Josh Galster’s reinforcing the BP issues on the Lean Bike made the day one of the best track events I can ever remember. As Arnold said: “I’ll be baak!”
The Bike is simply incredible but not to be lost in this praise, the School knows how to coach students to ride it as well. There must have been some cosmic convergence of circumstances that brought the School and BMW together and I would like to spread the challenge to other students to post their impressions of it as well.
Rainman
You saw a difference in quick turn, I saw a difference in HOOK turn! I was astounded at how well the BMW would respond to this technique, I have never been able to make it work as well on my own bike as it does on the 1000RR. What an incredible bike to ride, I was very confident on it and I'm sure I must have had a ridiculous grin on my face every time I turned that throttle!
It was great to finally meet you, Rainman, and to get to ride with you a bit, you sure looked like you were having fun rocketing around the track.
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I was at the school this weekend, watched a guy that had very limited riding experience progress through Level 1. I was blown away by how well he was riding at the end of the day and it seemed to me like it was all about being open-minded, listening closely in the classroom, really practicing/applying the drills, and not riding over his head. He had no expectations of "going fast" but by the end of the day he was going very fast. He clearly had a terrific time and told me he'd remember the day for the rest of his life. That's repeating some of the same points that Stuman and Bullet made... but I saw such a dramatic example, just yesterday, that I really wanted to mention it.
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Hi, I've taken L1 & L2 at Streets of Willow so far...want my wife to take Level 1 and wanted to know if she can ride here 2010 Ducati monster 696 ? is that bike okay for that track ? I've taken her 696 up to mt. Palomar and found out that her kick stand drags on the left turns when leaning...she has been riding for few years now...I just want her to get better at learn to control her SRs...she doesn't want to do track days or go very fast, but I still think Level 1 will help her in every day riding...
thx!
No problem, that will be a good bike, we've had other girls bring the Mosters, not uncommon.
If she has any question, have her call the office and talk with my wife, Whitney (or me!).
CF
I'm a female rider, too, and came to the school the first time with no intention of doing track days or going fast, had a terrific time and kept coming back for more. My husband and I ride together, have done schools and track days together, it's great. I'd be happy to answer any questions, too, if that would help. I'm sure she'll have a great time, she can ride at her own pace and will get LOTS of great tools at the school to gain whole new levels of confidence.
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I know this is the Cornering Forum, but because of some muscle problems, track days and road racing aren't high on my list of things to do. I have a rare muscle condition that makes me weak from excitement (like racing) and exercise (you know, like riding a motorcycle at speed around a road course). But I WOULD like to experience SOME of that. So, I'm thinking about trying some land speed record stuff.
There is an air strip here in North Carolina that has timing and radar equipment. I saw a guy do 242 mph on his turbo powered Haybusa last year. It looked like fun. I figure that for me, it would be easier, and safer, to stay strong for 2 minutes flat out, than 20 minutes or 2 hours or braking and clutching like crazy. Have any of you done this type of time trial/speed record racing? I'd love to take out an S1000RR and just see what 193 horsepower can really do. What do you think?
Here is a link to the East Coast Timing Association website:
That does sound fun, although frankly the amount of preparation and expense to get there to do a 2 minute run sounds a bit overwhelming to me!
To tag onto Cobie's comment, I find that just backing the pace off a little bit can be enough that I can ride very relaxed and not have to hang off far, and choosing to brake earlier and not so hard REALLY reduces fatigue for me. Another thing that's really helpful is to find a bike that is comfortable for you - maybe something more upright? I raced a Ninja 250 recently, and also rode another more touring oriented bike on the track, and I noticed the more upright position and lower foot pegs made a HUGE difference, my back and neck didn't get tired at all, it was easier on my quads, it was easier to look ahead (because I wasn't peering out from underneath the top part of my helmet), and they were still GREAT fun to ride around the track. The sport-touring bike cornered like a champ, I was really pleasantly surprised at the handling.
Racing smaller bikes might be a fun option, too - they could be more tiring if you don't fit on one well, but if you CAN fit, you can often find go-kart tracks that have open practice sessions for minibikes (NSR50s, for example), they are big fun and you feel like you are going fast, the tracks are usually a lot less crowded and you can choose to ride shorter sessions. Plus it's cheaper.
Except you SOUND like a horsepower junkie, so you might not like them.
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OK, I'll keep posting. Here is some worthless info: we are having the floor in the in the Student Services trailer re-finished--or at least supposed to get done, the re-finisher is late!
CF
Hurray! Glad you're going to keep the thread going, I like it, too, nice to know what's going on.
Hey, you're in color again, nice photo!
Vir - Which Airport?
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Thanks very much, fellas, for the prompt and (mostly) helpful replies.
How about it, Fossil, wanna come out and play? This is a lot closer to you than I normally get, and having you out there to chase around would definitely be good motivation to get me going faster!
Hey, Cobie, what's airport code for Bakersfield? BFE?