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Problems With Tight Corners


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One issue that I have noticed over the past couple of years is that I have problems with tight technical corners. Some examples would be turn 7 at Road Atlanta, turn 4 at VIR, turn 13 at Barber (well I think it is 13, the last right hander). I know these corners give me fits at times due to coming in to the corner to fast. This seems like an easy problem to cure, but the corners continue to suck me in faster. So Twist of the Wrist explains very well how to approach turns that give you the impression that you can enter them faster. So I have a plan to overcome this issue. Now for the other problem that occurs with this type of turn, and this one is completely psychological. I can not for the life of me get comfortable with quickly leaning the bike in to these slower turns. I know the objective of turn 7 at Road Atlanta is to make one quick steering input and get to the appropriate lean angle for the turn and speed through the turn. For some reason I just tense up on the bike and make what I would call a lazy steering input. I know I am carrying a lot more speed and lean angle into faster turns on the track without issue, but can not get comfortable with these particular turns. Anybody have any ideas? This is one of the 3 big question I will bring to the school at Barber in August, but I though someone might have some insight to how they handle these particular turns.

 

Thanks,

 

Shane

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Hi Shane,

 

Ironically, most riders I know have the opposite problem, ie. fast corners being more difficult than slow ones. It is certainly the case for me. I wonder if there isn't another common feature to the corners you mention that isn't about speed per se.

 

The only corner you mention that I am familiar with is T7 at Road Atlanta, so... here's my off the cuff take on it.

 

First, the feeling of being sucked in too fast or rushed tends to be a matter of a lack of reference points (RP's). It's a lack of awareness of where you are in relation to what is coming next. The other thing I have to ask is if you are late braking such that you aren't off the brakes and relaxed and ready when the turn point arrives?

 

Aside from this, the only issue I've had with T7 at RA is that, while not being very fast, it is essentially blind. The approach is uphill, and the corner is bascially flat and the proper turn point is actually deeper than it looks because the corner is more than 90 degrees but unless you have walked it and looked at a track map, your brain (well my brain) tends to think it is a typical 90 degrees. I'm not sure why that is. Also, being that the approach is uphill and the corner is more than 90 degrees, the turn point is over the crest and the apex is beyond your line of sight when you look into it, as I recall. That is, when you look into the corner just before the turn point, you can't really see the next major sub-product (SP). Hence, you need something to fill the gap, some RP between the TP and apex that tells you where you are in relation to it. As I recall, I used some patches on the track surface.

 

Being a somewhat blind corner, my biggest issue with T7 is forcing myself to picture the corner as more than 90 degrees and wait to turn in deeper than I want to even though it leaves the door open to be passed because getting a good drive there is the key to a good run down that long back straight. But, people who (try to) outbrake there are only hurting their own drive onto the most critical part of the track. Of course, if they manage to block your drive/exit.... they gotcha!

 

Does this track for you?

 

racer

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And you don't have problems with turn 5 at Barber? That is the tightest corner on the track.

 

Well turn 5 at Barber gives me issues also as well as the exit from the roller coaster, but I mainly wanted to concentrate on turn 7 at Road Atlanta and turn 13 at Barber. I think if I can conquer those 2 turns then turn 5 and the roller coaster at Barber will fall in to place as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Shane

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racer,

 

Honestly I never thought about the fact turn 7 at Road Atlanta is more than a 90 degree turn. That could be the biggest thing that causes me to go in to the corner too fast. Unfortunately the concrete patches are no longer there after the repave so a lot of the mid-corner RP are gone. I think my biggest issue is that I am turning in too early and using a lazy steering input. I really need to focus on waiting a little longer to turn in and finding the correct RP for the turn in. The quick steering input is something I will have to get my instructor to pound in to my head at Barber. Honestly it is something that I usually do not do. More than likely not being able to do the quick steering input is what leads to the early turn in as well. Ummm.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

Shane

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I think my biggest issue is that I am turning in too early and using a lazy steering input. I really need to focus on waiting a little longer to turn in and finding the correct RP for the turn in. The quick steering input is something I will have to get my instructor to pound in to my head at Barber.

 

Shane;

 

I think you might get more out of attending the School if you set aside your preconceptions of what to focus on and let the School take you through Level's I & 2. There are so many different factors that affect one's ability to corner a motorcycle that you may be surprised that what is holding you back is not what you think. I offer this as someone who has attended many, many CSS events at seven different tracks and as a corner worker at three.

 

The School knows how to teach riders how to corner - that is a simple fact. You have invested in yourself by deciding to attend, let them do their job so that you get a maximum return on that investment.

 

Kevin

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I think my biggest issue is that I am turning in too early and using a lazy steering input. I really need to focus on waiting a little longer to turn in and finding the correct RP for the turn in. The quick steering input is something I will have to get my instructor to pound in to my head at Barber.

 

Shane;

 

I think you might get more out of attending the School if you set aside your preconceptions of what to focus on and let the School take you through Level's I & 2. There are so many different factors that affect one's ability to corner a motorcycle that you may be surprised that what is holding you back is not what you think. I offer this as someone who has attended many, many CSS events at seven different tracks and as a corner worker at three.

 

The School knows how to teach riders how to corner - that is a simple fact. You have invested in yourself by deciding to attend, let them do their job so that you get a maximum return on that investment.

 

Kevin

 

Kevin,

 

Believe me I will come to the school with an open mind and allow the instructors to guide me in the right direction. Hell just signing up for the school was a big step. I have been riding on the track for four years, and I have been to several good schools, and I consider myself pretty fast and even slightly competitive at a novice racing level. Seeing that I had to start with Level 1 with CSS was at first a concern, but now that I am reading the books and reading all the material on the forum, I see that I am making the best decision to improve my riding. But at the same time the books are generating a lot of questions about my riding and the topic of this post was one of the biggest issues that I realized I have. I am very excited about what CSS has to offer and can't wait to see what I can get out of the school. One thing that I found with the previous schools is that if you didn't have an idea on what you needed to improve on then you might just get lost in the curriculum. So over the next 23 days I am going to examine my mental laps around Barber over and over and come armed with questions and continue to question my instructor until we are both on the same page. He or she may set me straight right away and that will be just fine with me. I have one goal and that goal is to improve.

 

I enjoy riding on the race track and plan to start racing again next year, but the last two days at the track were just so frustrating. I was a good 5 seconds off my pace. I could even come back in the pits and talk with other guys riding and they would tell me exactly where I was losing time, and I knew the turns before they even mentioned them. But I just couldn't get through them mentally. Odd how 10 months will mess with your perception of speed and skill. Oops I am rambling, sorry.

 

Thanks for the advice, and I will keep my mind open and fresh for 7:00 AM August 23 at Barber.

 

Shane

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I enjoy riding on the race track and plan to start racing again next year, but the last two days at the track were just so frustrating. I was a good 5 seconds off my pace. I could even come back in the pits and talk with other guys riding and they would tell me exactly where I was losing time, and I knew the turns before they even mentioned them. But I just couldn't get through them mentally. Odd how 10 months will mess with your perception of speed and skill.

Shane;

 

I had to sit out the first half of this season with a medical issue so I didn't get to my first track event until ten days ago; I went with an eye toward racing (HA!). In the first practice, I was so far off the pace that I couldn't believe that I had a CCS Novice license. It must have been Divine intervention because the following morning an electrical gremlin ended my weekend. It was more than ten months and IMHO that is a lonnnggg time...I wish I was only 5 seconds off my pace from last season.

 

It doesn't all come back at once, DAMHIK.

 

Kevin

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racer,

 

Honestly I never thought about the fact turn 7 at Road Atlanta is more than a 90 degree turn. That could be the biggest thing that causes me to go in to the corner too fast. Unfortunately the concrete patches are no longer there after the repave so a lot of the mid-corner RP are gone. I think my biggest issue is that I am turning in too early and using a lazy steering input. I really need to focus on waiting a little longer to turn in and finding the correct RP for the turn in. The quick steering input is something I will have to get my instructor to pound in to my head at Barber. Honestly it is something that I usually do not do. More than likely not being able to do the quick steering input is what leads to the early turn in as well. Ummm.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

Shane

 

Hi Shane,

 

Can you be more specific about your feeling that you are "going into the corner too fast"? Is there something concrete that you can point to? Are you running wide in the corner? Missing the apex? Are you up on the curb at the exit? Are you tempted to roll off the gas mid-corner? Is there some part of your plan, some specific mark that you are missing or sub-product that you are failing to achieve? Or is it "just a feeling" of being "rushed" at your turn point?

 

Do you have a plan?

 

racer

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Hi Shane,

 

Can you be more specific about your feeling that you are "going into the corner too fast"? Is there something concrete that you can point to? Are you running wide in the corner? Missing the apex? Are you up on the curb at the exit? Are you tempted to roll off the gas mid-corner? Is there some part of your plan, some specific mark that you are missing or sub-product that you are failing to achieve? Or is it "just a feeling" of being "rushed" at your turn point?

 

Do you have a plan?

 

racer

 

racer,

 

One sensation that I have in slow corners is that I feel like I can not lean the bike as far as in a fast corner. For some reason the slower speed gives me the feeling that I don't have enough momentum to actually keep the bike up. This is just a sensation that I get when trying to turn in to slow corners, almost like a sensation that the bike will just fall over. Of course to be specific about turn 7 at Road Atlanta, I do tend to miss the apex and run wide out of the turn. And at times I do have to roll back on and then off of the throttle. I have two main RPs in the turn, just before the end of the outside curbing for the turn in and just passed the crest of the inside curbing for the apex. I don't really have any other RPs beyond that other than doing my best to stay focused at looking down the track instead of to the outside of the track.

 

Thanks for your help. Also will you be at Barber on August 23 and 24?

 

Shane

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racer,

 

One sensation that I have in slow corners is that I feel like I can not lean the bike as far as in a fast corner. For some reason the slower speed gives me the feeling that I don't have enough momentum to actually keep the bike up. This is just a sensation that I get when trying to turn in to slow corners, almost like a sensation that the bike will just fall over. Of course to be specific about turn 7 at Road Atlanta, I do tend to miss the apex and run wide out of the turn. And at times I do have to roll back on and then off of the throttle. I have two main RPs in the turn, just before the end of the outside curbing for the turn in and just passed the crest of the inside curbing for the apex. I don't really have any other RPs beyond that other than doing my best to stay focused at looking down the track instead of to the outside of the track.

 

Thanks for your help. Also will you be at Barber on August 23 and 24?

 

Shane

 

Ok, if I understand you correctly, it seems that there are two parts to what you are experiencing or feeling as you approach and turn in to a slow corner. The first part is a mental reluctance or fear of leaning the bike too fast or too far at slower speeds because some part of your brain "senses" or believes that the bike doesn't have enough momentum to not fall over. The second part is a "sense" of being "rushed" or feeling like you are entering the corner too fast.

 

Hmm...

 

Ok... let me see if I got this straight.

 

Part 1: you feel like you are going too slow.

 

Part 2: you feel like you are going too fast.

 

:blink:

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist :P)

 

Seriously, I can see how part one could lead to part two. If you feel like you can't lean the bike fast enough or far enough, then there isn't as much space or time to get the job done. Hence, you simultaneously feel like you are going too slow and too fast. Man, that sounds frustrating. One part of you wants to go faster at the same time another part of you wants to go slower. What do you do?!

 

Well, assuming you have good tires and there is no mechanical problem with your bike that would cause you to fall over for no reason, I'd suggest finding some place like a large parking lot where you have enough room to conduct a little impromptu "skid pad" action. I would try to concentrate on counter-steering while you practice flicking the bike at slow speed. Then I would practice riding in a circle at slow speed while making the circle smaller and smaller, leaning more and more. First one way, then the other. Just try to get yourself comfortable with extreme lean angles at low speed in a safe open environment. Make sure the surface is clean and doesn't have greasy spots from parked cars leaking oil and whatnot.

 

Maybe there is some mental excercise you could do. Perhaps something as simple as some mental imagery. Like picture yourself doing what you want to do. If it is as you say, a bit of a mental block to doing something you know the bike can do if you apply the appropriate input at the bars, then maybe that could help make it easier, eh?

 

What do you think?

 

r

 

PS - Unfortunately, I don't have plans to be at Barber... unless of course the school decides to hire me on at Mid-Ohio... or something crazy like that. I suppose anything is possible. Now that I think about it, that has happened before....

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Ok, if I understand you correctly, it seems that there are two parts to what you are experiencing or feeling as you approach and turn in to a slow corner. The first part is a mental reluctance or fear of leaning the bike too fast or too far at slower speeds because some part of your brain "senses" or believes that the bike doesn't have enough momentum to not fall over. The second part is a "sense" of being "rushed" or feeling like you are entering the corner too fast.

 

Hmm...

 

Ok... let me see if I got this straight.

 

Part 1: you feel like you are going too slow.

 

Part 2: you feel like you are going too fast.

 

:blink:

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist :P)

 

Seriously, I can see how part one could lead to part two. If you feel like you can't lean the bike fast enough or far enough, then there isn't as much space or time to get the job done. Hence, you simultaneously feel like you are going too slow and too fast. Man, that sounds frustrating. One part of you wants to go faster at the same time another part of you wants to go slower. What do you do?!

 

Well, assuming you have good tires and there is no mechanical problem with your bike that would cause you to fall over for no reason, I'd suggest finding some place like a large parking lot where you have enough room to conduct a little impromptu "skid pad" action. I would try to concentrate on counter-steering while you practice flicking the bike at slow speed. Then I would practice riding in a circle at slow speed while making the circle smaller and smaller, leaning more and more. First one way, then the other. Just try to get yourself comfortable with extreme lean angles at low speed in a safe open environment. Make sure the surface is clean and doesn't have greasy spots from parked cars leaking oil and whatnot.

 

Maybe there is some mental excercise you could do. Perhaps something as simple as some mental imagery. Like picture yourself doing what you want to do. If it is as you say, a bit of a mental block to doing something you know the bike can do if you apply the appropriate input at the bars, then maybe that could help make it easier, eh?

 

What do you think?

 

r

 

PS - Unfortunately, I don't have plans to be at Barber... unless of course the school decides to hire me on at Mid-Ohio... or something crazy like that. I suppose anything is possible. Now that I think about it, that has happened before....

 

racer,

 

Thanks for the advice. And as confusing as it sounds I think you have put into words what I am actually going through. The feeling of falling over may indeed be the part that has me wanting to go faster into the turn. So yes I am going too fast while feeling like I am going too slow. Wow that is frustrating. But at least I think I understand the problem and can work on a resolution. The parking lot idea sounds like very good advice. I will look around my area and see what I can find.

 

Thanks again and have fun at Mid Ohio.

 

Shane

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Hi Shane,

 

Don't forget about your RP's. A lack of RP's will also bring on that feeling.

 

r

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One issue that I have noticed over the past couple of years is that I have problems with tight technical corners. Some examples would be turn 7 at Road Atlanta, turn 4 at VIR, turn 13 at Barber (well I think it is 13, the last right hander). I know these corners give me fits at times due to coming in to the corner to fast. This seems like an easy problem to cure, but the corners continue to suck me in faster. So Twist of the Wrist explains very well how to approach turns that give you the impression that you can enter them faster. So I have a plan to overcome this issue. Now for the other problem that occurs with this type of turn, and this one is completely psychological. I can not for the life of me get comfortable with quickly leaning the bike in to these slower turns. I know the objective of turn 7 at Road Atlanta is to make one quick steering input and get to the appropriate lean angle for the turn and speed through the turn. For some reason I just tense up on the bike and make what I would call a lazy steering input. I know I am carrying a lot more speed and lean angle into faster turns on the track without issue, but can not get comfortable with these particular turns. Anybody have any ideas? This is one of the 3 big question I will bring to the school at Barber in August, but I though someone might have some insight to how they handle these particular turns.

 

Thanks,

 

Shane

 

Hi Shane,

First, I was wondering are you a NESBA member and if so what region? I am in the Southeast region. I saw this post and realized what problems I was having committing to the quick turn and since Barber is my home track I thought I would chime in on turn 14 and 14A. I am assuming you are talking about the turn near pit out? I had asked the question before on other threads about the dilemma I was having running down off the tunnel into 14 at max lean angle versus the quick turn approach at the TP. I had a tendency of just holding my position down through the apex of thirteen all the way to the entrance of 14 and 14a because I thought I was going "really fast".

But I discovered through the help of CSS instructors that I go faster through these turns and all the turns if I am decisive about my TP and committment to the quick turn. Believe me, I have never ridden faster and I have never been more consistent. The CSS school will help so free your mind of what you think and try what they think...be patient with some of the less experienced riders in level I and don't go so fast that you don't apply the technics they teach. I hope to see you at the track someday.

DT

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Hi Shane,

First, I was wondering are you a NESBA member and if so what region? I am in the Southeast region. I saw this post and realized what problems I was having committing to the quick turn and since Barber is my home track I thought I would chime in on turn 14 and 14A. I am assuming you are talking about the turn near pit out? I had asked the question before on other threads about the dilemma I was having running down off the tunnel into 14 at max lean angle versus the quick turn approach at the TP. I had a tendency of just holding my position down through the apex of thirteen all the way to the entrance of 14 and 14a because I thought I was going "really fast".

But I discovered through the help of CSS instructors that I go faster through these turns and all the turns if I am decisive about my TP and committment to the quick turn. Believe me, I have never ridden faster and I have never been more consistent. The CSS school will help so free your mind of what you think and try what they think...be patient with some of the less experienced riders in level I and don't go so fast that you don't apply the technics they teach. I hope to see you at the track someday.

DT

 

DT,

 

I am a NESBA member and ride in the South East region. The NESBA CRs and Directors are a great group of guys. My home track is Road Atlanta, but I usually get to Barber 3-4 weekends a year. Unfortunately I have only been to Barber one day in the past year. That will change this year since I will be doing the CSS weekend and 3 more weekends with NESBA before the end of the riding season.

 

Thanks for the advice and information about CSS. I am sure they can work with me to get rid of my bad habits and help me build better habits. Let me know when you will be at Barber with NESBA, I would love to discuss riding and CSS with you.

 

Thanks,

 

Shane

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Hi Shane,

First, I was wondering are you a NESBA member and if so what region? I am in the Southeast region. I saw this post and realized what problems I was having committing to the quick turn and since Barber is my home track I thought I would chime in on turn 14 and 14A. I am assuming you are talking about the turn near pit out? I had asked the question before on other threads about the dilemma I was having running down off the tunnel into 14 at max lean angle versus the quick turn approach at the TP. I had a tendency of just holding my position down through the apex of thirteen all the way to the entrance of 14 and 14a because I thought I was going "really fast".

But I discovered through the help of CSS instructors that I go faster through these turns and all the turns if I am decisive about my TP and committment to the quick turn. Believe me, I have never ridden faster and I have never been more consistent. The CSS school will help so free your mind of what you think and try what they think...be patient with some of the less experienced riders in level I and don't go so fast that you don't apply the technics they teach. I hope to see you at the track someday.

DT

 

DT,

 

I am a NESBA member and ride in the South East region. The NESBA CRs and Directors are a great group of guys. My home track is Road Atlanta, but I usually get to Barber 3-4 weekends a year. Unfortunately I have only been to Barber one day in the past year. That will change this year since I will be doing the CSS weekend and 3 more weekends with NESBA before the end of the riding season.

 

Thanks for the advice and information about CSS. I am sure they can work with me to get rid of my bad habits and help me build better habits. Let me know when you will be at Barber with NESBA, I would love to discuss riding and CSS with you.

 

Thanks,

 

Shane

 

Shane,

I hope to see you in October...best time of the year at Barber! I will be very busy until then with other committments. One other suggestion about the school...and about change for anyone that reads this thread. It is very easy for us to be resistant to change. I am guilty of that believe me. I have commented on other posts about my experiences with CSS which have all been glowing recommendations. When evaluating what I learned or experienced at level I, the lowest marks have to be given to me. Low marks for preparation and for communication.

What I failed to do for my Level I and Level II:

1.) Read the book....Stupid!

2.) Be prepared - Imagine riding the track

3.) What are my strengths, weaknesses...write it down

4.) Be positive about every exercise regardless, even if you are following grandma on the warm up lap, look for reference points, Break markers, camber, asphalt conditions etc, etc.

5.) Resist the urge to be negative. We are human and much of the time negativity gets in the way, in every aspect of our lives.

6.) Think before you ask...How can I frame this question?

7.) The class should be PRIMARY...the urge to ride the track SECONDARY

8.) WHAT IS THE CURRENT EXERCISE.....Am I working on that exercise? See 7.)

 

I finally got my act together for Level III and IV.

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Shane,

I hope to see you in October...best time of the year at Barber! I will be very busy until then with other committments. One other suggestion about the school...and about change for anyone that reads this thread. It is very easy for us to be resistant to change. I am guilty of that believe me. I have commented on other posts about my experiences with CSS which have all been glowing recommendations. When evaluating what I learned or experienced at level I, the lowest marks have to be given to me. Low marks for preparation and for communication.

What I failed to do for my Level I and Level II:

1.) Read the book....Stupid!

2.) Be prepared - Imagine riding the track

3.) What are my strengths, weaknesses...write it down

4.) Be positive about every exercise regardless, even if you are following grandma on the warm up lap, look for reference points, Break markers, camber, asphalt conditions etc, etc.

5.) Resist the urge to be negative. We are human and much of the time negativity gets in the way, in every aspect of our lives.

6.) Think before you ask...How can I frame this question?

7.) The class should be PRIMARY...the urge to ride the track SECONDARY

8.) WHAT IS THE CURRENT EXERCISE.....Am I working on that exercise? See 7.)

 

I finally got my act together for Level III and IV.

 

Thanks. This is very good information to have before taking the class. I will look for you in October.

 

Shane

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Shane,

 

I think racer has good advice. I also wanted to add that I noticed when people blew T7 at Road Atlanta, most of them were turning in too early and then had to add lean angle (and scrubbed speed when they should have been adding it) when they should have been straightening the bike up. I attributed part of the problem to the cone placement along with the last 2/3 of the turn being blind. So, they would see the cone and turn in at that point, when they really should have turned in later.

 

And many of the same riders were approaching T7 pretty slowly (braking a bit too early).

 

So, I don't think you are alone with T7 problems at RA. I generally do well at the slow technical corners but I think sphincter cramping limits me on the high speed ones.

 

 

 

See you at CSS Barber on 8/23 and 8/24. Look for me. I have a Kawi green 636 with yellow number plates with 636 on them. And it has my nickname, Meat, on the ears (next to windscreen).

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Shane,

 

I think racer has good advice. I also wanted to add that I noticed when people blew T7 at Road Atlanta, most of them were turning in too early and then had to add lean angle (and scrubbed speed when they should have been adding it) when they should have been straightening the bike up. I attributed part of the problem to the cone placement along with the last 2/3 of the turn being blind. So, they would see the cone and turn in at that point, when they really should have turned in later.

 

And many of the same riders were approaching T7 pretty slowly (braking a bit too early).

 

So, I don't think you are alone with T7 problems at RA. I generally do well at the slow technical corners but I think sphincter cramping limits me on the high speed ones.

 

 

 

See you at CSS Barber on 8/23 and 8/24. Look for me. I have a Kawi green 636 with yellow number plates with 636 on them. And it has my nickname, Meat, on the ears (next to windscreen).

 

Oh yeah, I have turned in early a lot at turn 7. You are right about the cone placement it always seems to be a little too far back from the actual turn in.

 

I will look for you at Barber. I am on an 08 R6 (black, with yellow on the side wings, and yellow number plates with number 529). I will also have my 28' Keystone Outback Trailer with me. I will be camping in the paddock both Friday and Saturday night.

 

Look forward to meeting you.

 

Shane

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I've just been looking at RA T7 on Google Earth and I'd have to say that the proper turn point is beyond the end of the left side curbing as you approach the corner. I don't know how old the sat-photo is, but, there appears to be a patch right there on the left side and, without being there, I'd go to the end of that patch and a bit further before flicking it in on my 125. A bigger bike with more motor to use, maybe even a tad deeper to square it off for a good drive onto the back straight.

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racer,

 

One sensation that I have in slow corners is that I feel like I can not lean the bike as far as in a fast corner. For some reason the slower speed gives me the feeling that I don't have enough momentum to actually keep the bike up. This is just a sensation that I get when trying to turn in to slow corners, almost like a sensation that the bike will just fall over. Of course to be specific about turn 7 at Road Atlanta, I do tend to miss the apex and run wide out of the turn. And at times I do have to roll back on and then off of the throttle. I have two main RPs in the turn, just before the end of the outside curbing for the turn in and just passed the crest of the inside curbing for the apex. I don't really have any other RPs beyond that other than doing my best to stay focused at looking down the track instead of to the outside of the track.

 

Thanks for your help. Also will you be at Barber on August 23 and 24?

 

Shane

 

Shane,

 

You mention above that you don't feel like you have enough momentum to keep the bike up and it feels like it will fall over. I had the same experience, and at CSS when I mentioned this difficulty, the reponse was something like "Do you know what lean angle you are trying to achieve?" and "When you get there, how do you stop the bike from leaning over more?". So I realized there was a piece missing in my plan - I was not being precise about when to stop pushing on the bar- I was just trying to quick turn it over then hope for the best. So in the next session I rode with a specific, quick push on the bar, just enough to lean the bike the amount I wanted, then back on the throttle. Obviously it took a little experimentation to get right (and looking ahead is critical), but I was just not thinking about the fact that when you lean the bike, you can stop the lean or even stand it back up. Once I got more in control of this, I picked up my pace and that made it much easier, too, because the bike was harder to turn and felt more stable.

 

Another, more minor point is to check out the profile of your tires - some tires seem to want to jump to a certain lean angle, which may feel too abrupt in a slower corner, and you may want to look at your suspension setup, if you have the front end a bit low or soft you may find that the bike steers very quickly, and if it's too touchy it can make you feel like a quick turn would dump you right over.

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One sensation that I have in slow corners is that I feel like I can not lean the bike as far as in a fast corner. For some reason the slower speed gives me the feeling that I don't have enough momentum to actually keep the bike up. This is just a sensation that I get when trying to turn in to slow corners, almost like a sensation that the bike will just fall over.

 

I had the same experience, and at CSS when I mentioned this difficulty, the reponse was something like "Do you know what lean angle you are trying to achieve?" and "When you get there, how do you stop the bike from leaning over more?".

 

... I was not being precise about when to stop pushing on the bar- I was just trying to quick turn it over then hope for the best.

 

... I was just not thinking about the fact that when you lean the bike, you can stop the lean or even stand it back up. Once I got more in control of this, I picked up my pace and that made it much easier, too, because the bike was harder to turn and felt more stable.

 

*slaps forehead*

 

That is an awesome answer, Hotfoot.

 

 

Another, more minor point is to check out the profile of your tires - some tires seem to want to jump to a certain lean angle, which may feel too abrupt in a slower corner, and you may want to look at your suspension setup, if you have the front end a bit low or soft you may find that the bike steers very quickly, and if it's too touchy it can make you feel like a quick turn would dump you right over.

 

Excellent post.

 

 

(ETA: Not that you need my imprimatur. I just wish I had thought of it. :P )

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*slaps forehead*

 

That is an awesome answer, Hotfoot.

 

Excellent post.

 

 

(ETA: Not that you need my imprimatur. I just wish I had thought of it. :P )

 

 

Well, thanks, racer, I appreciate that. Comments like that might get me lurking less and posting more! :)

 

It's cool for me to remember the AHA! moment I had at the school (as I tried to describe above). I've had a lot of those moments at CSS, the terrific coaching makes all the difference in the world.

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