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Catching The Slide


Leftlaner
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I've read TWIST 1&2 twice now, but there is one little thing that I just don't quite understand. Maybe it's because English isn't my first language, or maybe I'm just stupid..? When the rear tyre starts slipping in a corner, and it wants to "come around", you're supposed to maintain a steady throttle (chopping the throttle is likely to result in a highside and wacking the gas full on is likely to bring the rear all the way around).

 

I think I get the part about throttle. But Keith also says that whilst maintaining a smooth and steady throttle, one should also "STAND THE BIKE UP".

Does that mean that one should steer the front wheel slightly inwards, or does "standing the bike up" in this context have to do with body position?

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated. Thanks :)

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I've read TWIST 1&2 twice now, but there is one little thing that I just don't quite understand. Maybe it's because English isn't my first language, or maybe I'm just stupid..? When the rear tyre starts slipping in a corner, and it wants to "come around", you're supposed to maintain a steady throttle (chopping the throttle is likely to result in a highside and wacking the gas full on is likely to bring the rear all the way around).

 

I think I get the part about throttle. But Keith also says that whilst maintaining a smooth and steady throttle, one should also "STAND THE BIKE UP".

Does that mean that one should steer the front wheel slightly inwards, or does "standing the bike up" in this context have to do with body position?

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated. Thanks :)

 

Leftlaner,

 

What I think Keith is referring to is getting the bike off the rear tire's sidewall and up onto the center portion of the tread pattern . This action will stabilize the bike during wheel spin, and allow for gradual traction hook-up. It seems to me the sooner you can get the bike "stood up" the more control you'll have, all while achieving a stronger drive out of the corner.

 

my opinion,

john

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Leftlaner,

 

Considering the possible language barrier, here's another example that I think will clarify "Stand the bike up". When the bike is parked on it's sidestand, it's leaning over . A common phrase in America, is to say "get the bike off it's kickstand, and stand it up". So by doing this, you remove any lean angle. I hope this helps. john

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Standing the bike up means reducing lean angle, fair enough. The question is HOW, and I think Jaybird just confirmed what I suspected. :ph34r: You have to steer inwards to reduce lean angle, that makes sense.

 

But what about BP. Assuming you're hanging off, would the best thing be to maintain the BP (to avoid upsetting the bike), or gradually moving the upper body more towards a non hanging off BP??

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Standing the bike up means reducing lean angle, fair enough. The question is HOW, and I think Jaybird just confirmed what I suspected. :ph34r: You have to steer inwards to reduce lean angle, that makes sense.

 

But what about BP. Assuming you're hanging off, would the best thing be to maintain the BP (to avoid upsetting the bike), or gradually moving the upper body more towards a non hanging off BP??

 

Unplanned slides happen so fast you don't have time to scoot your butt over. :blink:

 

Controlled slides mean the rider isn't introducing unwanted chassis balance changes by moving around. He's doing all the work with the right hand and steering (and maybe a little lower body muscle).

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But what about BP. Assuming you're hanging off, would the best thing be to maintain the BP (to avoid upsetting the bike), or gradually moving the upper body more towards a non hanging off BP??

I would think that If you experience an unexpected slide you still might need to finish the corner, especially if the rear did not step out enough to line the bike up perfectly for the next section of track. Continuing to hang off would as you say not upset the bike and would allow you to finish the turn more easily. In the Pick Up drill we learn to push the bike up while still hanging off so your thinking is consistent to what I've been taught.

 

Kevin

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But what about BP. Assuming you're hanging off, would the best thing be to maintain the BP (to avoid upsetting the bike), or gradually moving the upper body more towards a non hanging off BP??

I would think that If you experience an unexpected slide you still might need to finish the corner, especially if the rear did not step out enough to line the bike up perfectly for the next section of track. Continuing to hang off would as you say not upset the bike and would allow you to finish the turn more easily. In the Pick Up drill we learn to push the bike up while still hanging off so your thinking is consistent to what I've been taught.

 

Kevin

Kevin,

Thanks for your elaboration. I'm new to this sight and already I've learned so much more about the actual "art" of cornering than I ever would have expected. You guys at CSS, and your members have my vote. It's great to have found a sight with so much specific "nuts-and-bolts' of cornering.

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But what about BP. Assuming you're hanging off, would the best thing be to maintain the BP (to avoid upsetting the bike), or gradually moving the upper body more towards a non hanging off BP??

I would think that If you experience an unexpected slide you still might need to finish the corner, especially if the rear did not step out enough to line the bike up perfectly for the next section of track. Continuing to hang off would as you say not upset the bike and would allow you to finish the turn more easily. In the Pick Up drill we learn to push the bike up while still hanging off so your thinking is consistent to what I've been taught.

 

Kevin

 

 

Do you recall if the pick up drill is level 1, 2 or 3?? I'm taking the two first levels in a few weeks, it's going to be sooo much fun, I can hardly wait..! :rolleyes:

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Do you recall if the pick up drill is level 1, 2 or 3?? I'm taking the two first levels in a few weeks, it's going to be sooo much fun, I can hardly wait..! :rolleyes:

 

LL;

I just redid Level I last November and then in a span of two weeks redid Levels II - IV so the drills are all fresh in my mind. It is the last drill of Level II IIRC. An aspect of the School's training that I really appreciate is that typically the last drill of a level is really the first drill of the following level so you can get a glimpse of where your training is going to take you...it's an exciting journey IMHO.

 

Kevin

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Do you recall if the pick up drill is level 1, 2 or 3?? I'm taking the two first levels in a few weeks, it's going to be sooo much fun, I can hardly wait..! :rolleyes:

 

LL;

I just redid Level I last November and then in a span of two weeks redid Levels II - IV so the drills are all fresh in my mind. It is the last drill of Level II IIRC. An aspect of the School's training that I really appreciate is that typically the last drill of a level is really the first drill of the following level so you can get a glimpse of where your training is going to take you...it's an exciting journey IMHO.

 

Kevin

 

Quite right Kevin, Pick Up drill is last thing L-2 (and does lead into L-3).

 

CF

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  • 4 months later...

I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one

 

This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?

 

Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?

 

Bobby

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I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one

 

This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?

 

Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?

 

Bobby

 

Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle?

 

 

Bullet

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Well, you are right about the bike being inheratly stabile and that it will self correct on most occasions. Which is one of the main reasons why it's so important to be "loose" on the bars, rather than clamping on to them. And smaller rear wheel slipping (like when you hit a patch of dirt/gravel on the road) will also be self corrected as long as you let the bike do it's thang.. :)

 

The pick-up drill has to do with improving the exit speed in certain corners (not all corners benefit from this technique). The idea is that standing the bike up slightly before the corner is finished allows you to get on the throttle sooner (b/c of the larger tyre footprint). The technique (the way I understand it) is basically to pull on the inside bar, letting ONLY THE BIKE (not your torso) stand more up. Standing (only) the bike up takes less time and effort compared to standing the bike+rider up. Once the bike is stabile, heading in the right direction (at a ridiculous speed), that's when you move your bum and torso back into "standard riding position".

 

 

Again, this is just how I interpreted the pick-up drill, I can't give any guarantees that this is exactely what Keith meant..! ;)

 

 

 

 

I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one

 

This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?

 

Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?

 

Bobby

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I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one

 

This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?

 

Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?

 

Bobby

 

Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle?

 

 

Bullet

 

Ok, I believe the pickup drill is for getting a bit more power down at the exit, preferably enough that the rear squirms or spins just a bit as your picking it up!

When I think what the rear tyre is doing when it starts to slide, I think coming around, I know that at this point chopping the throttle is not an option as it will result in a highside,

I understand that by maintaining a constant throttle will act like a rev limiter and the tyre will regain traction smoothly, then I guess you continue the roll on!

Its the last option I wonder about, keep rolling the throttle on (TC rule #1)! Ok so I imagine that the rear tyre will keep coming around and your lean angle will increase until your in a lowside situation, even if it does regain traction before lowsiding then your bike will most likely be pointing towards the gravel at the inside of the turn unless you have used the pickup drill a bit to keep the bike headed in its desired direction, I'm not sure if you could react quickly enough with the pick up drill to counteract a slide, possibly not unless you started the slide intentionally!

 

Bobby

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I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one

 

This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?

 

Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?

 

Bobby

 

Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle?

 

 

Bullet

 

Ok, I believe the pickup drill is for getting a bit more power down at the exit, preferably enough that the rear squirms or spins just a bit as your picking it up!

When I think what the rear tyre is doing when it starts to slide, I think coming around, I know that at this point chopping the throttle is not an option as it will result in a highside,

I understand that by maintaining a constant throttle will act like a rev limiter and the tyre will regain traction smoothly, then I guess you continue the roll on!

Its the last option I wonder about, keep rolling the throttle on (TC rule #1)! Ok so I imagine that the rear tyre will keep coming around and your lean angle will increase until your in a lowside situation, even if it does regain traction before lowsiding then your bike will most likely be pointing towards the gravel at the inside of the turn unless you have used the pickup drill a bit to keep the bike headed in its desired direction, I'm not sure if you could react quickly enough with the pick up drill to counteract a slide, possibly not unless you started the slide intentionally!

 

Bobby

 

You see, you did know after all. <_<

 

Good answer.

 

Bullet

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I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one

 

This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?

 

Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?

 

Bobby

 

Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle?

 

 

Bullet

 

Ok, I believe the pickup drill is for getting a bit more power down at the exit, preferably enough that the rear squirms or spins just a bit as your picking it up!

When I think what the rear tyre is doing when it starts to slide, I think coming around, I know that at this point chopping the throttle is not an option as it will result in a highside,

I understand that by maintaining a constant throttle will act like a rev limiter and the tyre will regain traction smoothly, then I guess you continue the roll on!

Its the last option I wonder about, keep rolling the throttle on (TC rule #1)! Ok so I imagine that the rear tyre will keep coming around and your lean angle will increase until your in a lowside situation, even if it does regain traction before lowsiding then your bike will most likely be pointing towards the gravel at the inside of the turn unless you have used the pickup drill a bit to keep the bike headed in its desired direction, I'm not sure if you could react quickly enough with the pick up drill to counteract a slide, possibly not unless you started the slide intentionally!

 

Bobby

 

You see, you did know after all. <_<

 

Good answer.

 

Bullet

 

Ask Colin Edwards about this one! :rolleyes:

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