Two-step Vision Drill

[BLSJDS]

When practicing the two step vision drill, I am finding that I'm having a hard time NOT target fixing on my turn-in reference point. Initially, as I approached a corner, I would spot my turn-in reference point, but would quickly (too quickly) get back to looking "through" the turn. As a result, I was unable to turn at that reference point consistently.

 

In ATOTW II, Keith talks about focusing on that turn-in reference point, and then at some point shortly before you reach it, switching focus to looking through the turn. After attempting to practice this method, I find that I'm too focused on the turn-in reference point and the transition to looking through the turn is way too abrupt (and I've lost the "wide screen" vision that is so important).

 

How do you guys practice this? How does the focus of your vision change as you approach and navigate a turn? How much attention do you give your turn-in reference points?

 

Any guidance or insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

Dan

[Bullet]

Thanks for your question, and your interesting thoughts. Fairly common challenge in man respects.

 

Which is most important, the turn in point, or the Apex of the turn, and why?

 

Secondly, in your experiementation, what have you learned from looking in late, or early, what has it done to your lines, and your ability to locate yourself in the turn? Do you think the timing of when to look in is important? And when have you found is best to look in?

 

Bullet

[Jaybird180]

I was going to comment, but Bullet's approach was better at getting to the point. I'll sit back and watch. TYVM.

[Bullet]

I was going to comment, but Bullet's approach was better at getting to the point. I'll sit back and watch. TYVM.

 

Awww ta man...!

 

B

[BLSJDS]

I think the apex is more important than the turn in point. The correct apex is a good indication that your entry line is appropriate, and it will allow for the best exit line. You will be able to get on the throttle as soon as possible, and roll it on throughout the turn. So I'm going with Apex Unless it was a trick question - ha ha!

 

From my experimentation, looking in late has caused me to back off the throttle because I didn't have an early, wide view of where I wanted to go, the line I wanted to take, etc. Depending on how quick I turned the bike, sometimes I hit the apex too early, but more often too late. It was a bit erratic.

 

I seem to consistently early apex when I look in too early, which is why I'm trying to incorporate this two-step drill into my riding habits.

 

I do think the timing of when to look in to the turn is important. Have I placed too much emphasis on it? I haven't yet found the best time to look in, although I seem to ride fairly decent lines when I'm not overly focused on anything

[Bullet]

I think the apex is more important than the turn in point. The correct apex is a good indication that your entry line is appropriate, and it will allow for the best exit line. You will be able to get on the throttle as soon as possible, and roll it on throughout the turn. So I'm going with Apex Unless it was a trick question - ha ha!

 

From my experimentation, looking in late has caused me to back off the throttle because I didn't have an early, wide view of where I wanted to go, the line I wanted to take, etc. Depending on how quick I turned the bike, sometimes I hit the apex too early, but more often too late. It was a bit erratic.

 

I seem to consistently early apex when I look in too early, which is why I'm trying to incorporate this two-step drill into my riding habits.

 

I do think the timing of when to look in to the turn is important. Have I placed too much emphasis on it? I haven't yet found the best time to look in, although I seem to ride fairly decent lines when I'm not overly focused on anything

 

Ok good man, good answers. Yeah, Apex is more important, and you described some of the benefits very well. Line is all about throttle really, and getting back to the throttle in accordance with the rules. If you can't, your line isn't right.

 

You're also learning that maybe it's possible to look in to early as well, which results in poor throttle control right, or should we say compromised throttle, i.e you can get that roll on right?

 

The timing is very important definitely, when we look should be defined by what do you think?

 

Bullet

[BLSJDS]

Ok good man, good answers. Yeah, Apex is more important, and you described some of the benefits very well. Line is all about throttle really, and getting back to the throttle in accordance with the rules. If you can't, your line isn't right.

 

You're also learning that maybe it's possible to look in to early as well, which results in poor throttle control right, or should we say compromised throttle, i.e you can get that roll on right?

 

The timing is very important definitely, when we look should be defined by what do you think?

Bullet

 

Thanks, Bullet!

 

We should definitely be looking into the turn BEFORE turning the bike, but at what point exactly? When the turn-in reference point is no longer in our "wide screen" of vision?

[Bullet]

Ok good man, good answers. Yeah, Apex is more important, and you described some of the benefits very well. Line is all about throttle really, and getting back to the throttle in accordance with the rules. If you can't, your line isn't right.

 

You're also learning that maybe it's possible to look in to early as well, which results in poor throttle control right, or should we say compromised throttle, i.e you can get that roll on right?

 

The timing is very important definitely, when we look should be defined by what do you think?

Bullet

 

Thanks, Bullet!

 

We should definitely be looking into the turn BEFORE turning the bike, but at what point exactly? When the turn-in reference point is no longer in our "wide screen" of vision?

 

Well, how about you go and practice a little, experimenting with timing and see what you find?

 

Bullet

[BLSJDS]

I'll be doing that this weekend, for sure

[BLSJDS]

The timing is very important definitely, when we look should be defined by what do you think?

 

Bullet

 

After a few hours of practice, I still cannot answer the question of "what defines when we should look". Or maybe I can...

 

I can tell you that, because of my renewed focus on the correct line and apex (as the more important elements), I am much less concerned with the turn-in reference point.

 

Now, as I approach a corner, I select a turn-in reference point, but immediately go back to "wide vision". My focus remains on the corner, and I let the reference point fade from my view. As it does, I transition to "looking through" the corner. I then make the turn based on the entry line I've visualized, rather than the reference point.

 

Hopefully that makes sense...

[GregGorman]

I find that I'm too focused on the turn-in reference point and the transition to looking through the turn is way too abrupt (and I've lost the "wide screen" vision that is so important).

 

Why are you so focused on the turn-in point?

[BLSJDS]

I wasn't, until I tried incorporating the two-step vision drill into my cornering practice / routine

 

I may have over emphasized it, which led to the target fixating I initially experienced.

[Jaybird180]

BLSJDS-

 

Are we talking about applying the 2-step on the street or track? I would suggest they differ in their application.

[BLSJDS]

I suppose both. Since I am only able to get to the track once or twice a year, I practice many of the techniques on the street (vision drills, body position, one turning motion, lines, etc - those that can be done legally).

[Cobie Fair]

Overall all technique, is the 2-step any different from street to track? Can it be done at a turn signal, or pulling into the driveway?

 

CF

[Jaybird180]

I'm glad you answered that way. I have found that some of the techniques, particularly the 2-step lend very well to increasing the tendency toward tunnel vision.

 

On the track, we can identify the TP and if we've found a good one for the turn it fades into the subconscious. We can't quite do this on the street as the conditions are constantly evolving. We may select a TP while still several seconds away but we have a tendency to double check for gravel, oil, etc. not to mention that we have moving chicanes around us that may require a line change though the corner.

I think it's okay to let survival win in this situation (LOL).

 

I have found a few areas where I can practice drills, but they've done construction at one of my areas and added 2 stop lights at the other, so I need to find a new area too.

 

But, like you find it difficult to get the tracktime needed and try to practice on the street, but it's never effective enough and has invited unproductive self-criticism. I welcome you to take a look at this article by Keith Code in light of this topic:

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=114

[BLSJDS]

That is a great article. One of the key takeaways for me, among many, was that "RELAX" means economy-of-effort, not NO-effort.

 

Street conditions absolutely throw in elements that are simply not present at the track, so yes - survival wins

 

Cobie - I do the two-step vision drill when I turn from my hallway into my kitchen - LOL

[Cobie Fair]

That is a great article. One of the key takeaways for me, among many, was that "RELAX" means economy-of-effort, not NO-effort.

 

Street conditions absolutely throw in elements that are simply not present at the track, so yes - survival wins

 

Cobie - I do the two-step vision drill when I turn from my hallway into my kitchen - LOL

 

Good answer!!! Otherwise might catch a piece of the wall, and that can hurt at 4-5 mph (unless I watched my daughter when she was 4 bounce off the wall full tilt, and NEVER slowed down).

 

CF